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NC Certified Professional Midwife (CPM) ARRESTED!! - Page 2

post #21 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommato5 View Post

 

I would venture to guess that this is because certain things DO carry higher risks. The increase may be small, but it still is an increase. When you have a board of midwives who make all the rules, it becomes very bad for the women they serve. If a midwife has a high risk patient, that patient should be transferred to OB care. Don't people on here say Dr's are for high risk women??

 

Yes, certain things do carry higher risks.  If a board of primarily midwives was used, that is not to say that they would assign or have any desire to assign high risk patients to CPMs.  They want to perform within the scope of their practice, not to put women at risk.  The issue is that boards of physicians are labeling many women high risk where high risk does not exist, and that "high risk" is sometimes subjective.  Remember that physicians are losing patients to midwives and have a vested (egotistical, if not decidedly economic) interest in preserving patients for themselves. 

 

Personally, I would be very supportive of a board that was composed of equal numbers of physicians and midwives.  I think in a place where CPMs are licensed and regulated and continuing education crosses professional borders, there is an environment of respect for the different emphases of the many professions who have a role in childbirth.

 

I am sorry to hear what has happened to Amy.  Though I haven't had a homebirth in NC, her name gets around as a professional and one who many women praise after their births.  I can't imagine a higher form of praise and I hope Amy is released and what has happened sparks the right sort of debate in NC to allow CPMs the recognition they deserve as providers.

post #22 of 57


I could be reading this wrong, but this implies that a trained midwife is not capable of knowing when a patient needs to be risked out, which would be a statement I would respectfully disagree with.  I guess it just irks me because in SC, midwives attended HBACs and birth center VBACs for YEARS without problem, risking patients out on a case by case basis (type of scar, presentation, prior births, etc.), and suddenly because of VBAC statistics based on medically-managed hospital VBACs, they were no longer allowed to attend them.  That's just one out of many examples of (necessary) complications that can come with licensure.  Licensure gets midwife care to more women, but a few with special circumstances who could otherwise safely birth at home or in a birth center won't be allowed to by virtue of falling under some blanket rule that potentially casts the net too wide.

 

And, ultimately, I still believe that a mother should be able to educate herself and make the best choice for her family with the input and guidance of a provider, who could obviously make their guidelines known as requirements if they are to remain your care provider.  No provider should ever have to extend herself beyond what she personally feels comfortable with, and it's unfair of patients to expect that.  It boils down to the provider-patient match.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommato5 View Post

 

 

I would venture to guess that this is because certain things DO carry higher risks. The increase may be small, but it still is an increase. When you have a board of midwives who make all the rules, it becomes very bad for the women they serve. If a midwife has a high risk patient, that patient should be transferred to OB care. Don't people on here say Dr's are for high risk women??

post #23 of 57

This is what I was getting at.  It's the same as chiropractic in many ways.  Chiropractors are trained as chiropractors, and part of that training (should) involve knowing when to refer someone out for allopathic care.  Part of midwife training is learning when to risk people out before the birth, and when to transfer during a birth.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBucks View Post



 

Yes, certain things do carry higher risks.  If a board of primarily midwives was used, that is not to say that they would assign or have any desire to assign high risk patients to CPMs.  They want to perform within the scope of their practice, not to put women at risk.  The issue is that boards of physicians are labeling many women high risk where high risk does not exist, and that "high risk" is sometimes subjective.  Remember that physicians are losing patients to midwives and have a vested (egotistical, if not decidedly economic) interest in preserving patients for themselves. 

post #24 of 57

Do we have any idea what is going on with regards to the families involved here?  

 

As far as I can tell, there is one family who experienced a stillbirth in one county, and one family who has a newborn boy in the hospital.  I'm hearing a lot about Amy as a midwife and CPM certification, and it is absolutely unconscionable that anyone would exploit tragedy for a political agenda regarding CPMs, but I will confess that I am discomforted by how little I'm hearing about the families and what support is going out to *them* during this horrible time for them.

 

Are these families being brought meals?  Is the mom in the hospital with her ill newborn being visited and cared for?  

 

I'm not local, but I have had an emergency transfer with a newborn, and I am very concerned that we're not hearing much about these families.  

post #25 of 57

 

 

Quote:
 I'm hearing a lot about Amy as a midwife and CPM certification, and it is absolutely unconscionable that anyone would exploit tragedy for a political agenda regarding CPMs, but I will confess that I am discomforted by how little I'm hearing about the families and what support is going out to *them* during this horrible time for them.

 

This is what bothers me the most!!

 

I understand that people talk about a midwife being a good person, but even good people make mistakes, some even deadly. Now these families are left standing there while everyone rallies behind this "good person". It feels like babies who die or are injured aren't important. If licensing is all for women and their families, where is the concern for those affected here?

 

IMO, licensing wouldn't of changed these outcomes and really has nothing to do with this case in any way.

post #26 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommato5 View Post

 

 

 

I understand that people talk about a midwife being a good person, but even good people make mistakes, some even deadly. Now these families are left standing there while everyone rallies behind this "good person". It feels like babies who die or are injured aren't important. If licensing is all for women and their families, where is the concern for those affected here?

 

 

 

 

I have to admit, I agree with this. There will be a 'moment of silence' at the rally for Amy, but no moment of silence for the baby that died? That seems incredibly disrespectful. 

post #27 of 57

Hi, I am not really sure where the information came in about a IUFD or stillbirth or a baby in the hospital, does anyone know?  I, in the national midwifery community have not heard of this.

 

I highly doubt that the midwifery community would ignore the suffering of a family just to talk about legislative agenda, that sounds like rumors that a particular ob who bashes midwives would make (the reason this discussion was reviewed and some posts deleted earlier). 

 

The arrest may very well have been because the midwife did the right thing in transporting, after all that is what we are there for to make sure people get a higher level of care if everything is not going normally.

 

So, until we know more I would not hang onto rumors...  I am sure it is easy enough to contact Russ, who is the NC Friends of Midwives contact and clarify.   I'll see if I can find the press release and post it...

post #28 of 57

Oh, sorry the press release is at the top of all the posts...there is a website for the NC Friends of Midwives and a fb page, so I have posted there for someone to come here and clarify your serious concerns...

post #29 of 57

From my reading, a baby was stillborn in January. Supposedly she left during the labor.

 

Case #2 was recently and the baby was transported. This baby is now brain damaged. .

 

 

post #30 of 57

Where are you getting these "facts"? 

 

Certainly, a baby's death is always a tragedy.  Always.  And, I absolutely hope and pray that all families of lost babies are supported and loved and taken good care of. 

 

But, without knowing any facts, it is not fair to assume that it was the fault of the midwife.  Perhaps it was a baby who would have died no matter where he or she was born, due to either birth defect(s) or accident of birth that would have happened anywhere.  I have no idea.  And I don't think it is fair for anybody to speculate and guess and hypothesize.

 

Amy is a woman who I know and respect and love.  I am grateful to her and others who risk prosecution to attend women who choose to birth at home.  I hope that we are able to change the laws in NC so that they will no longer have to worry about being arrested for doing something that women are asking them to do.

 

My family and I will be in Raleigh on Wednesday both to support Amy and to encourage our legislature to change our laws to legalize CPM's. 

post #31 of 57

Chrissy, these facts are all over. You just have to find them.

 

 

 

Quote:
Perhaps it was a baby who would have died no matter where he or she was born, due to either birth defect(s) or accident of birth that would have happened anywhere.

 

Why do people ALWAYS say this??

post #32 of 57

All over?  Really, like where?  Show me a credible account.  Just because you read it on the internet, on somebody's blog, doesn't mean it's true.  People make a lot of things up.

 

I don't know why people always say that.  The reason I said it is because it isn't fair to assume that the midwife was liable for a death, when in fact there could be other circumstances.  I'm not about to assume that it was the midwife's fault.  That doesn't mean that I don't still grieve for the family whose baby has died, not AT ALL.  One thing has nothing to do with the other.  No matter why or how a baby dies it is ALWAYS a tragedy.  There are certainly no circumstances in which a baby's death would not be tragic.  I hope I didn't imply that because I never ever meant to.  I just mean that sometimes babies do die no matter where they are born, and I don't know whether or not that is the case here.  Blaming a midwife without knowing the facts doesn't help anybody. 

 

post #33 of 57

I have to concur with Chrissy, mamato5, I really do not think you nessesarily have a good idea of what is going on. 

 

In my experience of being a part of the local and national birth scene for 15 years there is always a lot of speculation but often you will never know unless you are a part of a peer review process where you have access to all charts (homebirth and hospital), and have heard all sides, parents and midwives.   

 

Certainly getting your information from the media when trying to decide the facts does not hold much credibility, they often have little or incorrect information and unless it is an in-depth piece rarely cover all sides of the story.   Mostly they are sensationalist pieces.

 

I have seen midwives who have practiced poorly, but more often I have seen ones that have been raked over the coals for political reasons, not because they did anything wrong.

 

And to address "why people always say that" is because the stats for neonatal death at a planned homebirth with a trained professional vs.  normal birth in the hospital are the same statistically.  So, often times a true emergency would not turn out differently at home or at a hospital as only the big city tertiary care centers are prepared to do an immediate section for those rare unforeseen emergencies.  For example if I have a catastrophic uterine rupture at home the amount of time it would take me to transport from home is less then it would take the team at the local community hospital to assemble for a crash section, and in a catastrophic uterine rupture the baby prob would not make it no matter location of birth....maybe at a tertiary care center, maybe not... does that make sense?    Most reasons to transport at a homebirth are not stat emergencies, things mostly take there time to get that bad, enough time to transport before it gets too ugly.

 

Anyway there are so many variability's that go into each scenario that I think it very unhelpful to speculate.  If I were you I would talk to the folks at NC Friends of Midwives and explain that it may look bad to you and some others that the min of silence is only about Amy and not also about the families...maybe this will make them change their approach/wording?

 

post #34 of 57

I already posted on NCFOM's facebook wall :)

post #35 of 57

Here is an article and where I'm getting that there is 1 stillbirth around January 20th, and 1 transfer for a baby whose condition was unknown "last weekend" which would now be 2 weekends ago.    

 

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/26990747/detail.html

 

Can we get some clarification from someone in terms of what is being done for these families?  It's got to be horrific enough to have a stillbirth or a child ill in the hospital, but when you put having your midwife arrested on top of it and having your birth in the news, those families probably need a *lot* of kindness and care right now.  What is the home birth community in NC doing to care for them throughout this period.  The "could these tragedies have been prevented" discussions are pretty irrelevant right now.  There is one family with a baby who has died, and one family with a child in the hospital in unknown condition, and they are in our court as the home birth community.  Home birth is about supporting women and families, and now they do not have their midwife available to be able to care for them.  How are they being cared for, honored and remembered throughout this struggle?  Can someone on the ground in NC please find out and get back to us on that?

 

Thank you!

post #36 of 57

Well, I am in NC and I don't know these families at all. I don't know how I would go about finding them, and I kind of feel like trying to do so would be quite intrusive.

post #37 of 57
"Well, I am in NC and I don't know these families at all. I don't know how I would go about finding them, and I kind of feel like trying to do so would be quite intrusive."


Exactly! I have no ties to this case, just been reading through, but seriously I would be so angry if my personal family information was given out to the "community". Not to mention that they are protected by HIPPA laws.
post #38 of 57

I don't know that it's unreasonable to think that NCFOM could have made a formal recognition that Amy Medwin got arrested as the result of caring for families who experienced tragedy, so we think of and support both Amy and the families who were under her care.  While collecting funds for Amy's legal defense, I think it would have been good karma and good PR to simultaneously help people be able to donate to a fund to help the families with medical expenses, funeral expenses, counseling, etc.  

 

I am alarmed at how quickly Amy Medwin being arrested for her participation in the care of a family experiencing a stillbirth and a family experiencing an emergency with their newborn went to "Amy was wrongfully arrested!" and then to "we're not talking about Amy anymore, but legalize CPMs in NC!"  It was very clear that NCFOM supports Amy Medwin, but home birth isn't just about midwives but about the families they serve welcoming new lives in peace and safety.  To not directly simultaneously say anything about the families is, to me, very problematic.  I am a home birth mom (3 home births now), but if I wasn't and I heard that a midwife was arrested after one baby died and another baby was transferred and hospitalized, and the response I was seeing from NCFOM was "our midwife was arrested for breaking a law that is ludicrous" instead of "two families in our community experienced tragedy this past month, and now to add insult to that prosecutors are exploiting their suffering to wage a political battle against CPMs, going so far as to arrest their midwife because she had offered them care"... I would not have a positive impression.  

 

Maybe NCFOM just botched it PR wise, but this chafes and it makes me deeply uncomfortable.  

post #39 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveneverfails View Post

I don't know that it's unreasonable to think that NCFOM could have made a formal recognition that Amy Medwin got arrested as the result of caring for families who experienced tragedy, so we think of and support both Amy and the families who were under her care.  While collecting funds for Amy's legal defense, I think it would have been good karma and good PR to simultaneously help people be able to donate to a fund to help the families with medical expenses, funeral expenses, counseling, etc.  

 

I am alarmed at how quickly Amy Medwin being arrested for her participation in the care of a family experiencing a stillbirth and a family experiencing an emergency with their newborn went to "Amy was wrongfully arrested!" and then to "we're not talking about Amy anymore, but legalize CPMs in NC!"  It was very clear that NCFOM supports Amy Medwin, but home birth isn't just about midwives but about the families they serve welcoming new lives in peace and safety.  To not directly simultaneously say anything about the families is, to me, very problematic.  I am a home birth mom (3 home births now), but if I wasn't and I heard that a midwife was arrested after one baby died and another baby was transferred and hospitalized, and the response I was seeing from NCFOM was "our midwife was arrested for breaking a law that is ludicrous" instead of "two families in our community experienced tragedy this past month, and now to add insult to that prosecutors are exploiting their suffering to wage a political battle against CPMs, going so far as to arrest their midwife because she had offered them care"... I would not have a positive impression.  

 

Maybe NCFOM just botched it PR wise, but this chafes and it makes me deeply uncomfortable.  


I agree with every bit of this. From an objective standpoint, this strategy seems very shady. 

 

Also, in no way do I expect NCFOM to be releasing the names of the families involved. I would just like to know that they are getting attention and support. I cannot imagine what they must be going through right now. 

 

 

 

post #40 of 57

Perhaps it was botched PR.  I really don't know.  It is not clear WHAT the impetus for the arrest was.  Yes, there are plenty of rumors, but there has not been any statement (that I know of) either from Amy, the NCFOM, or families.  So, while there are RUMORS that a baby was stillborn and that a baby was transferred to the hospital, in my opinion, none of this is FACT.  You can't really rally behind a family, when you don't know who they are or any details of what happened, or if anything even happened.

 

I am not saying this to minimize anything, though I know some of you are going to see it that way.  If a family were to come forward with their story, I would absolutely do what I could to support them. 

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