5 yo Will NOT poo in potty - Page 2

[JudiAU]

Originally Posted by Heavenly 

Pooping on the floor is unsanitary and disrespectful to other members of the family.  I definitely would not go with that suggestion. 

I think you could argue with equal force that pooping in a diaper is also unsanitary and disrepectful to other members of the family. It is also harder to clean up and dispose of properly.

I am not suggesting that she do so into her mid-30s or while doing cartwheels. I am suggesting they she break feel from the need for a diaper, get comfortable with the sensation of poop falling away from her body instead of being caught, do so in a specific easy-to-clean location. A bathtub or shower might also work or the outdoors as pp suggested. Poop is not that hard to clean up. This is actually pretty standard potty learning advice. Other people have suggested variations such as poop in a diaper, but on the toilet, and then cutting a whole cut out. In previous threads on MDC some people have luck with a modified squatting position instead.

Do you have any idea if the primary limitation is the diaper or the posture?  

[ElliesMomma]

Originally Posted by Subhuti 
You just have to keep trying, you never know what little thing can free them.

I will say that when my daughter got to the other side of this, she was a much happier person.   What was at the heart of her reluctance was fear, according to her.  I never could understand that fear or really help her with it, but when she overcame it, she felt wonderful.

i held my daughter's hand the first few times she pooped on the toilet. i can't remember if she asked me to, or if i offered to, but it seems to have been the thing that "freed" her. a good way of putting it, Subhuti. of course, FEAR is at the heart of reluctance to poop on the toilet. can't say exactly what she's afraid of, but others are right, OP, that you are essentially enabling her fear by letting it continue vs. risking upsetting her by forcing her to confront the fear and overcome it. 

Edited by ElliesMomma - 5/28/11 at 11:13pm

[Subhuti]

That is so sweet about your daughter, that she remembers that!!

And ... come to think of it, simply pooping on the bathroom floor as a transition, why not?  You can put newspaper down so it delineates this as a very formal thing (you don't necessarily want to convey that pooping on the floor is OK in general) ... and so it's easier to clean up.

I know it sounds crazy, but using the floor might be an option.  Look, if you haven't parented a truly reluctant pooper-in-the-toilet ... you don't know how stressful it can become for the entire family.  Extreme creativity is called for!  And if it gets your daughter out of the diapers and towards the toilet, it's a great first step.  I think it's akin to our poop in the woods phase!

Again, good luck.

[june'smom]

I think that the fact that you posted her means that you are concerned with her behavior.  I just don't agree that as parents, we need to prevent our kids from becoming upset.  Learning to deal with those feelings is part of growing up.  Our job is to teach them to deal with them in a healthy way - not to avoid them at all costs. 
 

She's your child, so you may disagree with me, which is fine.  I believe that by letting this go so long, you have made it a bigger deal than it needed to be.  We, as parents, need to help our kids get through things, not just let them be stagnant.  Growth and change are a part of life whether we like it or not.  We cannot shield them forever.  Teaching them to handle it is a completely acceptable thing to do.  I don't believe that you would be doing her any great harm, but that is just my view of things.

Good luck. 

[midnightwriter]

It seems that she is not panicky about the toilet or against it, but has toilet as a goal, at a later point. It might help her if you reprsent it visually.

My 5 yo wouldn't know what a 'year' really meant, so I wonder if she's repeating the phrase she heard some place. What if you took a piece of paper, and drew a circle to represent a day, and asked her how many more circles she thinks she needs to transition to the toilet? Even if she is into this, but at the end still feel she isn't ready, you haven't really lost anything. But her "year" could easily be 20 circles that fill the page...

Has she seen little toilets, like the ones you might see in children's museums or libraries? My kids were CRAZY about them! My DD2 life goal seems to be to go on the little toilet!

A less honest idea could be to buy a pack of too-small diapers, tell her that she outgrew them, and see how she reacts.

Have you talked to her about what poop is, that it is really unsanitary, and that you'd prefer not need to deal with poopy diapers? Have you talked to her about the landfilled and how diapers remain there forever?

My kids are comletely unbribable as well, btw.

[Dreaming]

DS has some sensory issues and delays and has been VERY reluctant to poop in the toilet. I was determined to respect his needs and take a gentle approach at his own pace, but I honestly had no idea that he would start potty learning at 3, regress and continue to refuse anything but a diaper/pull-up for nearly 2 years. We were going back and forth between pull-ups and underpants for a long time because he was pooping in his pants while holding poop in 5-6 times a day. Swishing underpants in the toilet sucks and smelling poop all day long is also awful.

He recently turned 5 and was still telling me "Boys don't poop" and "Kids don't poop". No amount of bribing or explaining was getting through to him. He will not clean himself, so that was also not an option. He has pooped in the toilet 2 times in the last 3 days with only one small accident because we have been staying home and he's been in nothing but a long t-shirt to cover his bum. By keeping him out of pants and therefore changing his usual routine, he completely quit pooping anywhere but the toilet. I'm sure it will take another week or so, but it's working. Yes, he freaked out (for extended times) and screamed and yelled and has vented several times. I listen and am patient and loving and just tell him he needs to poop in the toilet. It might be upsetting to him, but I know for a fact that using the toilet will not harm him. Letting him poop in his pants longer was wearing at all of us and it had to stop.

Good luck OP. It's not an easy situation. I hope you figure it all out.

[indigosky]

We've had some success with telling DD what the next small step in a big change, and letting her choose a date for it on the wall calendar that hangs in her bedroom. If need be, I limit the months when she can choose (March or April, for instance). I learned this approach from friends, who found it worked well for their daughter, too.

We've marked the calendar (she chose the date) for No More Nursing in the Middle of the Night, Pee in the Potty or the Toilet Day (after two failed potty training attempts and a child who was 3 years old and had total control but just prefers diapers), and this week, Two Pees in the Potty Day. (From that day forward, she has to do her first two pees of the day in a potty, and after that she can pee in a diaper if she wants to.)

I think it helps her to know she has the power to choose the date and mentally/emotionally prepare herself in advance. We look at her calendar regularly anyway and talk about things that are coming up (grandma is coming tomorrow, music class on Wednesday, playdate with a friend Friday morning, and oh, Sunday is the day you chose for Two Pees in the Potty Day, etc). Once the big day comes, that's the new rule for all future days (so it's really more than just one day, but the calendar day marks the beginning of the new era).

Often she's still sad and resistant when the day comes, but she gets through it. We're compassionate, let her know we know it's a big step and it's hard, but this is the date she chose and we know she can do it. When the calendar declares it, it as if an outside rule was made, and we can be the supportive ones rather than the bad guys. (But we do have to be firm and stick to our guns, even when she gets upset.) In some cases her having sad times about the change lasted a few days, and then she was completely fine and seemed to have totally integrated the new situation into her regular, happy existence. In other cases she just did the new thing with zero complaint, as if it were the easiest thing in the world.

My idea for how to integrate this approach would be to sit down with your daughter, share with her a list of "things that have helped other kids learn how to poop in the potty," ask her for her additional ideas and responses to the ones on the list. (Do you think it would help if I sat with you and held your hand? Or would you rather have some alone time and I could be in the other room?) Have her choose one small step, like pooping in a diaper while sitting on the toilet (but her choice for the small step might be something different). Have her choose a date for this, sometime in the next two months. Follow through. After a week or two, when you feel like this first small step has become easy for her, have her choose a date for the next step (which she can also choose after consulting the list of options you provide) -- maybe within two weeks. It'll be a very slow, gentle process. She'll be in control. You'll support her but also be firm that it's time to learn, that you believe in her and you know she can do it

[WildinTheory]

Originally Posted by ElliesMomma 

i held my daughter's hand the first few times she pooped on the toilet. i can't remember if she asked me to, or if i offered to, but it seems to have been the thing that "freed" her. a good way of putting it, Subhuti. of course, FEAR is at the heart of reluctance to poop on the toilet. can't say exactly what she's afraid of, but others are right, OP, that you are essentially enabling her fear by letting it continue vs. risking upsetting her by forcing her to confront the fear and overcome it. 

I held my son's hand the first few times too.  Then for a few months after, he needed me to walk him to the bathroom and wait until he was on the toilet and then leave so he could have privacy.

He was wearing underwear from age three with no accidents but always asked for the diaper for poop.  I was pretty easy going about it too and waited him out until almost 4 but I don't think that waiting any longer would have helped him be any more ready.  In fact, I think it would have just allowed the fear to get bigger.  OP, I totally understand not wanting to just stop buying diapers and have your child become hysterical.  Personally, that sounds mean and artbirary.  But I do think there are times when our children need a gentle push in a direction to help them overcome a fear. 

This is what worked for us too:
 

Originally Posted by indigosky 

We've had some success with telling DD what the next small step in a big change, and letting her choose a date for it on the wall calendar that hangs in her bedroom. If need be, I limit the months when she can choose (March or April, for instance). I learned this approach from friends, who found it worked well for their daughter, too.

We've marked the calendar (she chose the date) for No More Nursing in the Middle of the Night, Pee in the Potty or the Toilet Day (after two failed potty training attempts and a child who was 3 years old and had total control but just prefers diapers), and this week, Two Pees in the Potty Day. (From that day forward, she has to do her first two pees of the day in a potty, and after that she can pee in a diaper if she wants to.)

I think it helps her to know she has the power to choose the date and mentally/emotionally prepare herself in advance. We look at her calendar regularly anyway and talk about things that are coming up (grandma is coming tomorrow, music class on Wednesday, playdate with a friend Friday morning, and oh, Sunday is the day you chose for Two Pees in the Potty Day, etc). Once the big day comes, that's the new rule for all future days (so it's really more than just one day, but the calendar day marks the beginning of the new era).

Often she's still sad and resistant when the day comes, but she gets through it. We're compassionate, let her know we know it's a big step and it's hard, but this is the date she chose and we know she can do it. When the calendar declares it, it as if an outside rule was made, and we can be the supportive ones rather than the bad guys. (But we do have to be firm and stick to our guns, even when she gets upset.) In some cases her having sad times about the change lasted a few days, and then she was completely fine and seemed to have totally integrated the new situation into her regular, happy existence. In other cases she just did the new thing with zero complaint, as if it were the easiest thing in the world.

My idea for how to integrate this approach would be to sit down with your daughter, share with her a list of "things that have helped other kids learn how to poop in the potty," ask her for her additional ideas and responses to the ones on the list. (Do you think it would help if I sat with you and held your hand? Or would you rather have some alone time and I could be in the other room?) Have her choose one small step, like pooping in a diaper while sitting on the toilet (but her choice for the small step might be something different). Have her choose a date for this, sometime in the next two months. Follow through. After a week or two, when you feel like this first small step has become easy for her, have her choose a date for the next step (which she can also choose after consulting the list of options you provide) -- maybe within two weeks. It'll be a very slow, gentle process. She'll be in control. You'll support her but also be firm that it's time to learn, that you believe in her and you know she can do it

I helped DS pick the date, his fourth birthday.  No one in my family thought it would work.  Even I was a bit panicky as the day approached because I didn't want a very upset child because of some arbitrary day on the calendar.  In the end though, it was pretty easy.  As the day got very near to told him that I didn't want him to be worried or upset when he didn't have his diapers anymore so I wanted him to practice so he'd be ready.  The day, two days before his birthday, when he sat on the toilet, with his diaper and pooped, I knew we'd be okay.  He was really nervous when he did it for the first time, BUT not hysterical.  Even now, four months later, he still insists he'd rather use diapers but he doesn't need me go with him anymore.  I was so excited about him using the potty I didn't even broach the subject of wiping.  I do it for him now, and I'm starting to suspect that is another area where he's going to need a gentle push.

[slor42]

I am going through the same issue right now and I do NOT know what to do.  My daughter turned 5 in march and is super smart, so to me its not like she doesn't understand. She was going poo and pee on the toilet when she was 2 years old which would have made my son 4 at the time. Well my son was terrified of the toilet so his fear, caused my daughter to have the same fear, well my son shortly got over his fear but for some reason my daughter didnt. I did the whole pooping in the diaper thing but after a while she started to not fully go in a diaper either so I decided that the diaper was not a good choice. So, now she poops in her pants probably 4 or 5 times a day and it has been this way for more than 6 months. I have tried all the reward systems and such and none of them work for her, I even took away her special blanky and told her she could have it back when she pooped, it has been a month and she still doesnt have her blanky back. Now I am trying tough love, everytime she poos in her underwear (which she never fully poops, just squirts or whatever) I make her sit on the toilet, make her wipe herself, and make her clean her own underwear.....this STILL doesn't work....I am out of ideas and I do not want to regress and go back to diapers because I jus think that that is confusing...PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE HELP....she is not constipated, but she is so afraid it will hurt she wont push, but I make sure she is eating all the proper foods to keep her stool soft, even used stool softners at one point and have also used suppositories. She absolutely REFUSES to push and I have no idea how else to make her feel comfortable. Please help if you have any ideas....thank you so much!!!

[intentionalmama]

Your daughter sounds very similar to my son. He is eight now and pooping very well now.  However, I was starting to panic around  4 1/2 when he was still using his doppey (diaper) for poo.  He would use the potty for pee and wear his underpants; but when he wanted to poo he would come up to me,  get them put on and go off in another room in a closet, and come out a few minutes later all done. (He would also stand.)  We didn't do television; but I went to the library and found Bear's Big Blue House potty video.  Which he was thrilled to watch as it was a real novelty.  My only condition was that he watched it while on the potty.  I was hoping to get him use to sitting on it.    We talked  about him going poo and we also did not do rewards.  He suggested that I give him a gummy every time he sat on the potty; so I agreed since it was his idea.  So he would sit and get his gummy and watch the programme.  One time he did actually do a tiny poo in the potty. Then he started gagging. He hated the smell. He didn't care about the gummy's anymore. We talked to him about  how the toilet has water and so there would not be a smell.  He also was really attached with his dopey. ( We had cloth ones and he loved the feel of them)  Anyway, I think one day he wanted his dopey and I just really encouraged him to try the toilet.  He did, and that was basically it for us.  I think this was just prior to him turning 5. In summary, I think for him it was 1) his comfort and not wanting to give up the dopey   2) perhaps a feeling that he couldn't do it   3) the smell in the potty.   The Big Bear Potty video - was good in that he enjoyed it, it definitely had him thinking about it. The other day we laughed together as we remembered the video and this song they sing "The potty train."     So, it was stressful at the time, and I remember being worried that he was starting to feel like he couldn't do it.  But, it all came out in the end. (pun intended)

[intentionalmama]

Hi, I just wanted to add to my post that I also did not mind changing his diaper at that age.  He was my only kid, and that part of it was just not a big deal for me.  A big part of me just wanted to let him continue until he was ready; and go at his own pace.  However, both  my husband and I were starting to feel concerned  that  he may be thinking that he couldn't do it. He was also saying things like "well, maybe next year."    I realize that it was about two to three months after  we started focussing more on it (talking to him more about it, and introducing the video. (Even that was dicey, as I didn't want to talk to much about it, yk) to when he was able to use the toilet.  Also, after he first used the toilet, he still wanted to use his doppey a few times. He then changed over to only using the toilet. 

[D_McG]

I agree with the majority here that it's time to push the issue.  A typically developing 5 year old is just too old to be in diapers!  I have 3 kids, my oldest is 5 and I agree with whoever said that once you start changing a small baby again you really get the heeby jeebies about changing older kids.  I am PT'ing my 2 year old now actually even though that's less than ideal with a newborn.  I also just stopped wiping my 5 year old because he's just too old to have his mommy wipe is bum.  Or, I guess what I mean is he's too old to not be working on it, YK?  Of course these things can take time and that's fine.  But really there is a case being made for child-led pooping-in-the-toilet'ing?  
 

Originally Posted by ecoteat 

I'm going to have to disagree here. It sounds like you have waited it out way beyond what most people are comfortable with and that doesn't seem to be working out. I don't think this is anything like extended bf. When we choose to bf for years, it is because we (parents and children) are specifically benefitting from it. We know that bm has health benefits for our children and consciously choose to do it. But what is the benefit to letting this continue? Not rocking the boat? That alone is not a good enough reason. She is 5. She is independent and resilient and can communicate clearly. She can handle her mother lovingly teaching her how to manage her body functions in an age-appropriate way. She can handle change. I know this is what you are both used to, but you can do this. 

Originally Posted by Subhuti 

I will say that when my daughter got to the other side of this, she was a much happier person.   What was at the heart of her reluctance was fear, according to her.  I never could understand that fear or really help her with it, but when she overcame it, she felt wonderful.

^^ITA with this.  My 5 year old can be v. anxious about change and really has to be pushed through things (PT'ing was one!  Also, eating most than 5 things, falling asleep alone etc).  But with every gain in skills and independence he is happier.  Really what 5 year old wants to wear a diaper?

Time to rip off the bandaid, I would say.

[karne]

I don't think that you are helping your dd by continuing to facilitate this.  Your dd cannot still use diapers if you don't buy them, which may sound harsh to you, but I think it's worthwhile to look at your own role in this.  There are going to be times in life when your dd may feel uncomfortable, or may feel nervous or anxious.  Those emotions are part of the full spectrum of emotional life.  I don't think it's particularly useful to shield your daughter from emotional experiences, esp. given that you sound like you are well able to support her.

It also sounds like there are a lot of assumptions going on, including that your dd will be incapable of toileting herself because she hasn't yet chosen to, or that the experience will be fraught with stress or anxiety.  Perhaps, or perhaps not.  Sometimes our kids live into our expectations of them, both positive and negative, so it might be helpful to believe that, at 5, she is capable of not using diapers.

I have known other moms facing "stuck" issues to take a break from the situation and let someone else take over for a bit, even just for some momentary perspective.  I don't know if this is something you could think about?  Or, as a first step, perhaps using the diaper and then being cleaned up, could be less of a passive activity.  5 y/o's are capable of some self care, and could certainly particpate in throwing away the diaper, cleaning themselves, bringing clothing to the laundry, etc.  Not in a punitive way, but rather as a way to help her assume some responsibility for her choices.

Good luck.

[Magali]

Maybe some of the posters who say you are enabling her haven't dealt with a kid who WILL NOT poop on the potty.  I mean keep trying sure, but if your dd is anything like my 4 year old ds it is very frustrating! 

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by Magali 

Maybe some of the posters who say you are enabling her haven't dealt with a kid who WILL NOT poop on the potty.  I mean keep trying sure, but if your dd is anything like my 4 year old ds it is very frustrating! 

That's not the issue here though.  And my oldest was very reluctant.  This mom isn't willing to push her child at all.  She even says that she won't stop buying diapers because her child would get 'really upset'!  This is a child with little exposure to other children, no media exposure and a mom who isn't willing to let the child know that a typically developing 5 year old in diapers is not normal.  I find it quite upsetting, really.  

[Agatha_Ann]

Originally Posted by D_McG 

That's not the issue here though.  And my oldest was very reluctant.  This mom isn't willing to push her child at all.  She even says that she won't stop buying diapers because her child would get 'really upset'!  This is a child with little exposure to other children, no media exposure and a mom who isn't willing to let the child know that a typically developing 5 year old in diapers is not normal.  I find it quite upsetting, really.  

Edited by Agatha_Ann - 7/13/11 at 8:27am

[karne]

Originally Posted by Magali 

Maybe some of the posters who say you are enabling her haven't dealt with a kid who WILL NOT poop on the potty.  I mean keep trying sure, but if your dd is anything like my 4 year old ds it is very frustrating! 

How is the OP's stance not enabling?  As far as we know, the child is NT, and because OP hasn't sought any health care advice that we know of, the assumption is that there is not a medical issue.  I'm not unfamiliar with strong willed children at all.  My point is that it's usually worthwhile, as the adult, as the parent, to examine what you are doing, as well as what your child is doing, when you have a tough situation.  It is not blame, it's examination of how the family might be working together, and what change might or might not help the process along.  So, mom could say,  this issue feels "stuck" to me, I'm uncomfortable enough to post on MDC about it, what might I do myself that would be different in this situation?  She cannot force her child, but she can think about what could be different from the approach that's happening now.  

[choli]

Originally Posted by D_McG 

That's not the issue here though.  And my oldest was very reluctant.  This mom isn't willing to push her child at all.  She even says that she won't stop buying diapers because her child would get 'really upset'!  This is a child with little exposure to other children, no media exposure and a mom who isn't willing to let the child know that a typically developing 5 year old in diapers is not normal.  I find it quite upsetting, really.  

I agree. Being able to get out of your comfort zone and deal with change is a very important life skill that isn't being taught to this child.

 

[XGypsyX]

Lux, my daughter is 4, and i cannot tell you how frusterating it is seeing all other children going potty by the time they are two.

i start looking at my daughter like ok what am i doing wrong.

Does she understand its time to potty or that we have to do this? what am i doing wrong.

So, dont feel that way, it will only cause you my situation which is self doubt, and wondering whats wrong?

ive been told by some other moms their children werent ready, and the more you push them to do it sometimes can be adverse reactions, such as refusing to or plain out going in there pants.

i too am wondering why my daughter doesnt continue to potty. I do NOT have the option to let her poop or pee on the floor.

this isnt my house and id never have her do that to any domain we live in. Its a health issue and ruins carpets.

i literally just posted about my daughter on another thread, one of my concerns was about her potty training.

she has been potty training for a while now, for months it seems.

every 15 mins to a half an hour im telling her its time to potty, i give her a lollipop if she stays dry and goes in the potty.

at first this did not work, but seems it does now somewhat.

however she has only pooped in the potty once. at four years old im wondering how much she understands me when i say at school they are not going to change you, and you cannot wear pullups.

she just says no pullups? cant? sigh.

[4evermom]

This is an old thread and the OP hasn't even posted anywhere on MDC in the past couple of weeks.  It seems a bit mean spirited to continue criticizing her parenting choices when she isn't here.