my son has ZERO interest in history/global/cultural studies... - Page 3

[NellieKatz]

A friend just told me about this today and I immediately thought of you.

http://www.littlepassports.com/

Looks fun!

[Village Mama]

Such great ideas in here. I hated history as taught in school... only lately have I started to really enjoy it. I love the suggestions first of good radio being on. Here in Canada we have CBC ( which I am assuming must be something like NPR?). I have a map up and available which I look at in order to know what is going on where ( I do it whenever I hear or something interesting on the radio). The kids just started doing it on thier own. I do a lot of wool spinning and started to get into the history of fiber arts... our computer is in the middle of the living room. Usually when I put on youtube videos, the boys are curious to see what I am watching. They tune in if it interests them, and leave if it doesn't. Same with elaborating on things I hear on the radio, or news or on the net. My boys love archery and I got a bunch of books for the family on primitive arts and weaponry building.This sparked off all sorts of interest which ties into local plants and local plant history and usage. I started watching BBC history ( sort of reality programming) called the Victorian Farm. The boys LOVED it and we have ended up watching ones through different eras. We had originally see a pioneer one that I cant seem to find online.

I have taken the opportunity to learn about whatever I want to learn about. Learn new skills, explore different ideas, do my own projects. This has shown them how to go about finding stuff themselves, springboarding topics that the boys want to look into and so much of it they want to get in on. I am pretty selfish too... i am definitely not purposely getting into any specific subject in order to trick them into it.

*Just to add that the history channel has everything available online ( same with National geographic, discovery etc) which is pretty awesome. When it is raining and just too gross outside we all browse those channels for something interesting. The boys love all sorts of medieval history stuff, or things about knights, gladiators, pirates and things like that. I just open the browser for them and they browse it for something that looks good. We all sit around in our jammies and watch. ( just reminded me of a show called reinventors where they rebuild an old patent from sometime in history and test it. The boys almost always incorporate it into their play afterwards. My boys are also homebodies... they hate crowds and noise and outings. We use the net and media a ton.

Edited by Village Mama - 2/28/11 at 7:08pm

[lalaland42]

It sounds like you spend a lot of time at home. What about getting out and taking walks? Especially in areas that are rich with history.

My DD (5) is public schooled but she asks the most questions when we are out walking around the city. She also doesn't like to have deep discussions when we are home surrounded by legos but if we go out together and hit a coffee shop or walk to a bookstore, she inevitably asks a bunch of questions about history or politics. Or jail. 

ETA: We live in a small town but take the train to the city regularly for my sanity. DD is a bit of a homebody. 

[umami_mommy]

we are busy everyday. DS is a total homebody who hates going anywhere. he hates riding in the car, he hates trying new things. he loves being home with his "stuff." i have to insist we go to the Y, have science club and he go to his "class" on thursday afternoon. otherwise he would stay home in his fleece jammies and go from the TV, to the computer to his legos and back again. (man i can't wait until spring gets here!)

it does sometimes disturb me that some unschoolers seem to have an anti-intellectual bent. my husband and i are pretty certain we do not want our kids to be ignorant and myopic sheep. i do not see that as incompatible with the ideals of unschooling. he and i both have a graduate education and we don't regret it. we value education, even if we think public school sux. 

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by umami_mommy 

it does sometimes disturb me that some unschoolers seem to have an anti-intellectual bent. my husband and i are pretty certain we do not want our kids to be ignorant and myopic sheep. i do not see that as incompatible with the ideals of unschooling. he and i both have a graduate education and we don't regret it. we value education, even if we think public school sux. 

Why do you say this?  

Anything to quote in this thread?

I honestly do not see much anti-intellectualism in USing on MDC.  
 

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by umami_mommy 

it does sometimes disturb me that some unschoolers seem to have an anti-intellectual bent. my husband and i are pretty certain we do not want our kids to be ignorant and myopic sheep. i do not see that as incompatible with the ideals of unschooling. he and i both have a graduate education and we don't regret it. we value education, even if we think public school sux. 

I'm not sure where this is coming from. My kids are pretty intellectual and love academic studies. My 12-year-old reads studies AP biology and intermediate algebra for fun. My 8-year-old thinks the DK history encyclopedia is the coolest thing ever. I've never felt an anti-intellectualism here. I think the tension between intellectualism and unschooling arises when the children do not yet share their parents' interest in intellectual pursuits ... and in that case unschoolers will tend to come down on the side of following the child's current interests, while continuing to offer and model and strew opportunities that lie in the realm of parental interests.

Miranda

[Lakeeffectsnow]

We live in NY state too and the testing is always a worry for me.  We unchool two of our kiddos, and home school the other two.  Weird, but it works for us.  For history and geography, I've tried different ways to introduce the ideas with teaching them.  Because, two of mine are home schooled, the two who are unschooled often around/included in the lessons.

Historical fiction on CDs in the car, we listen to on daily errands and long trips.  Sometimes we listen to books like the Percy Jackson series, which while not historical fiction does have a lot mythology in it.  

A subscription to National Geographic and leave it in the bathroom.  Half the time, the kids bring it out and read the magazine in the living room.  

A globe and a map, when we hear about something on the news or NPR, I look it up on the map or Google earth.  Google earth is also great for looking up where family and friends live, visit, or come from.  My unschooled 8 year old can recognize most of the continents and some countries just from looking stuff up on Google earth. 

Post cards, whenever friends and family travel (we have a lot of friends and family in the military), we ask them to send up local post cards and then when they come in the mail, we look the place up on Google earth and talk about the culture.

Cultural festivals, recently we've attended a Russian festival, a Greek festival, and a Polish Festival.  It's great way to hear the music, try the food, and hear the language.  They are often free or low cost, especially during the summer.  

We belong to the United Unitarian congregation, where they exposed to a lot different religions.

[annakiss]

Originally Posted by umami_mommy 

we are busy everyday. DS is a total homebody who hates going anywhere. he hates riding in the car, he hates trying new things. he loves being home with his "stuff." i have to insist we go to the Y, have science club and he go to his "class" on thursday afternoon. otherwise he would stay home in his fleece jammies and go from the TV, to the computer to his legos and back again. (man i can't wait until spring gets here!)

it does sometimes disturb me that some unschoolers seem to have an anti-intellectual bent. my husband and i are pretty certain we do not want our kids to be ignorant and myopic sheep. i do not see that as incompatible with the ideals of unschooling. he and i both have a graduate education and we don't regret it. we value education, even if we think public school sux. 

Have you looked into sensory issues for your son? It sounds like a lot of the kids I know with sensory issues. My kids are headstrong and hate doing those things, but I can still get them to and once they're there, they're intrigued and enjoy it. They have a hard time stopping what they like or what they're involved in. But sometimes I just pull a mama duck and say, "I'm not comfortable being in the house any more, so we're all going because you guys can't stay by yourself and I think you'll like it." They're intrigued by things I think they'll like. Sometimes they'll tell me I was wrong. Sometimes I guess it's a little manipulative, but really, once they get there, they usually have fun so I can hardly fault myself for surprises that they like.

Also, anti-intellectual. Miranda really hit that on the head. Kids catch up. At 8, how intellectual are they going to be? I mean, honestly...

Edited by annakiss - 2/28/11 at 6:44pm

[Lillian J]

There's quite a variety of people who unschool, but most  I've known are quite intellectually curious and active, and that's part of why they unschool -  and others have interesting passions they pursue with the family.  Pushing intellectualism on children, however, is pretty futile - you can get them to cooperate in gong through various motions, but you can't reconfigure their brains and developmental processes. LIke everything else, authentic modeling and sharing of enthusiasm goes a long way, so pieces tend to fall into place as a child grows, although the pattern may not be obvious until some point in the teens.  - Lillian

[umami_mommy]

anna, yes, he does have a SPD. it's one of his many "special needs."

miranda, your kids sound so cool. i think my 4 year old will grow up to be like that. at 4 she is starting to read and is total sponge!

i queued up "connections," "young indiana jones" and "wishbone" for DS. i'll see how they fly.

[midnightwriter]

Originally Posted by umami_mommy 

it does sometimes disturb me that some unschoolers seem to have an anti-intellectual bent. my husband and i are pretty certain we do not want our kids to be ignorant and myopic sheep. i do not see that as incompatible with the ideals of unschooling. he and i both have a graduate education and we don't regret it. we value education, even if we think public school sux. 

 My kids, ages 8 and 6 are currently not interested in academics. This doesn't mean they are not intelligent, or that they or our family are anti-intellectual. 

What makes you to imply that kids who are not interested in academics at the age of 8 or 9 or 10 (or even older), are "ignorant and myopic sheep"? That's harsh.

Both DH and I have graduate degrees, and certainly don't regret it. We value our education, and education in general. However, I certainly wasn't interested in academics at 8 or 9. I was in school, academics were my only choice. I wasn't unhappy, but I was much more into applied arts and crafts at that age. However I was told by my parents that, for example, crochetting was a worthless endeavour, while math and language arts were important. I remember internalising this attitude, but I felt devalued as well.

Now my 8 yo DD taught herself sewing, and made 3-d toys from published patterns, and from patterns that she created herself. She taught herself knitting and crochetting, and is approaching complicated patterns with confidence. She is setting goals, she is working towards them while negotiating difficulties, and I think it is pretty amazing.

We choose to support our children in their interests, so that they have a chance at choosing their own path--not my path, dh's path.

[umami_mommy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnightwriter 

What makes you to imply that kids who are not interested in academics at the age of 8 or 9 or 10 (or even older), are "ignorant and myopic sheep"? That's harsh.

 

ummmm... what makes you think that i was referring to the very children i am talking about? i think that you missed my point entirely. i was referring to the unschooling community as a whole. 

Anti-intellectualism is hostility towards and mistrust of intellect, intellectuals, and intellectual pursuits, usually expressed as the derision ofeducation, philosophy, literature, art, and science, as impractical and contemptible. Alternately, self-described intellectuals who are alleged to fail to adhere to strict standards of rigorous scholarship may be described as anti-intellectuals.^{[citation needed]}

In public discourse, anti-intellectuals usually perceive and publicly present themselves as champions of the common folk — populists against political elitism and academic elitism — proposing that the educated are a social class detached from the everyday concerns of the majority, and that they dominate political discourse and higher education.^{[citation needed]}

As a political adjective, 'anti-intellectual' variously describes an education system emphasising minimal academic accomplishment, and agovernment who formulate public policy without the advice of academics and their scholarship.^{[citation needed]} Because "anti-intellectual" can be apejorative, defining specific cases of anti-intellectualism can be troublesome; one can object to specific facets of intellectualism or the application thereof without being dismissive of intellectual pursuits in general. Moreover, allegations of anti-intellectualism can constitute anappeal to authority or an appeal to ridicule that attempt to discredit an opponent rather than specifically addressing his or her arguments.^[1]

full article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism

i am not interested in forcing my son to learn anything against his will. however, i do have legitimate concerns about the future, including the state regs, his desire to go to college, etc. this is my fav quote regarding this issue: 

Learning can only happen when a child is interested. If hes not 
interested its like throwing marshmallows at his head and calling it 
eating. - Katrina Gutleben

maybe this will help you to better understand where i am coming from. 

Edited by umami_mommy - 3/1/11 at 5:59am

[kathymuggle]

umami.....

I cannot read the bottom quote of your last post. . It would be great if you could repost it, but because I am genuinely over your statement that some unschoolers have an anti-intellectual bent.

I suppose, technically, some USers are anti-intellectual. I have seen a quote or two over the years. I do not, however, think it is more prevalent among USers than among public or traditional HSers.

[umami_mommy]

i bolded it kathy. i don't know why there is an empty box at the bottom. i can't make it go away. 

we all have different opinions and perceptions is all i can say. 

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by umami_mommy 

i bolded it kathy. i don't know why there is an empty box at the bottom. i can't make it go away. 

we all have different opinions and perceptions is all i can say. 

OK.  I thought the box may hold a quote but now I understand it does not.

I agree we all have different opinions and perceptions -I just like to know where people are coming from when they make certain statements, and I feel a bit befuddled by yours.  

I tend to think that if posters come onto a forum and drop a bit of a bomb (such as some USers are anti-intellectual) they should be willing to discuss it or cite examples. This holds across forums - if I go into any forum, and state a somewhat negative thing, I should be willing to explain my concerns.  In fact, to refuse to do so would be anti-intellectual (joke  sort of).  I do get that life sometimes gets in the way of discussion - but unless that is the case the poster who makes the statement should be willing to discuss.   

You have defined terms, but have not given any examples yet as to why you think some (enough that it disturbs you) USers are anti-intellectual.

[umami_mommy]

kathy, i read some of the stuff here that was said to me as having an anti-intellectual flavor or bent. it's my perception. if you don't see it or feel it, then so be it. i don't want to debate.

i'm not naming names, but there are a few "big name unschoolers" that i see as *very* anti intellectual. they aren't really here on MDC, but have groups out there in yahoo-land.

i do think that just in general HS-ers tend to be kinds weak in the "hard sciences" area. (i'm generalizing here) i wish i had more company even locally in the passionate pursuit of science among HS families.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by umami_mommy 

kathy, i read some of the stuff here that was said to me as having an anti-intellectual flavor or bent. it's my perception. if you don't see it or feel it, then so be it. i don't want to debate.

i'm not naming names, but there are a few "big name unschoolers" that i see as *very* anti intellectual. they aren't really here on MDC, but have groups out there in yahoo-land.

i do think that just in general HS-ers tend to be kinds weak in the "hard sciences" area. (i'm generalizing here) i wish i had more company even locally in the passionate pursuit of science among HS families.
 

Fair enough.

I kind of agree with you on the hard sciences thing.  I know I can put together or help them find resources for cool math, literature or even social science topics - finding science that is hands on and not kiddy or repetative has been a challenge.  One can only make so many baking soda volcanoes or learn about the life cycle of butterflies!

We did enjoy TOPS science kits - they are not perfect, but were pretty cool.  Some are supposedly better than others so do a google search or a search at Well Trained Mind  (where I know they discussed this) for reccomendations.

http://www.topscience.org/

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/

[umami_mommy]

we are using "every child is spatial" chemistry. it's was DS' idea. he loves science and chemistry, and since i am kinda lost when it comes to chemistry, we agreed to buy it for him. sometimes he loves it, sometimes he doesn't. but all in all it was worth the price (we got it $50 off), since it did all the hard work for me. 

[Rivka5]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I tend to think that if posters come onto a forum and drop a bit of a bomb (such as some USers are anti-intellectual) they should be willing to discuss it or cite examples. This holds across forums - if I go into any forum, and state a somewhat negative thing, I should be willing to explain my concerns.  In fact, to refuse to do so would be anti-intellectual (joke  sort of).  I do get that life sometimes gets in the way of discussion - but unless that is the case the poster who makes the statement should be willing to discuss.   

You have defined terms, but have not given any examples yet as to why you think some (enough that it disturbs you) USers are anti-intellectual.

Not the OP, but I have also noticed what seems to me to be an anti-intellectual bent among unschoolers. I actually planned to US when my daughter was younger, but became uncomfortable with a lot of things I was seeing in this forum and others. Of course I can't provide actual quotes from threads, because that would violate the UA, but I can speak more generally about what I've seen that's bothered me.

Unschoolers (at least online) often give the impression that anything that can't be learned through daily life is unimportant or not worth learning. It seems like many people on US boards ridicule the idea that sustained academic effort has any value or that there might be things worth knowing that can't be mastered in a few weeks or months of casual exploration. I've even seen people suggest that someone who has been casually presented with a subject here and there will undoubtedly know more than someone who has studied the topic consistently, because the consistent student must just be engaged in passionless "rote" learning, will not be aware of deeper connections, and will instantly forget the material. Every time an unschooler says "there's no need for kids to know..." or "there's no point in trying to get them to learn useless information about...", to me that's anti-intellectualism.

I also see persistent anti-intellectualism in a lot of unschoolers' justifications for what constitutes educational activity. How often do we see someone suggest that "baking cookies counts as math?" Sure, it does for a six- or seven-year-old, but I think people are fooling themselves if they think it counts as substantial math learning for a ten-year-old. (Unless you are doing metric-to-imperial conversions or something similar.) Or someone will say, "the kids played in a stream and blocked up part of it with sticks, so that's hydrodynamics, engineering, environmental science, and botany." No, it isn't, and to say that it is trivializes the study of science. Or video games will be suggested, not as a way of catching a child's interest in historical topics as a springboard for further reading and exploration, but as sufficient study of history in themselves.

There are, clearly, some very intellectual US kids. Moominmama's kids are a case in point. But there have also been many cases in this forum in which unschoolers have reported that their kids have arrived in mid-adolescence or later with an almost complete lack of basic academic skills and knowledge. The idea that there's nothing to be concerned about in those cases is, to me, anti-intellectual.

[annakiss]

As an avid intellectual and unschooler, I personally think that there's a difference between academic pursuit and intellectual pursuits and don't find unschooling and intellectualism to be mutually exclusive in the way that you are outlining. I supposed I could see there being a bit of anti-intellectualism amongst unschoolers online, but I think that's probably true of most of America these days, it seems. I think too there's a heavy libertarian trend amongst homeschoolers and I tend to be a bit biased about this, but I think libertarian values tend to be very anti-intellectual in many ways. That whole bootstrapping mentality. I'ma hide now though for that...