Does this look like a normal gum or lip tie?

[sunflower64]

I wish I could get a better pic, but she screams bloody murder when I try to look in her mouth, so this is the best I can do. What  brief glimpses I've had of her gum it looks like there is a frenulum attached from her lip to the edge of the gumline, but I'm not sure. Would anyone be willing to post a normal gumline pic so I can compare (assuming you have a cooperative babe)?

We don't have a lot of resources in our community- no pediatric dentist deals with lip or tongue tie, and the ot and lc we have seen are less than helpful. We are having continued nursing difficulties, now no solids or babbling at 9 months.  Appreciate you looking.

ps I am a senior member here but opened this account as I know my DH is googling lip tie and I don't think I want him to read all my posts!

[lifeguard]

It does look similar to how ds looked. I didn't realize until he had teeth (so over a year old!) that it was abnormal but I do think it is the cause of my discomfort when he nurses - especially after he got teeth. It did not cause any problems with introducing solids or babbling though - none at all.

[Melly24]

That looks just like my DD's did, but I didnt realise it was a prob until she had top teeth. Her top lip never flanged when she nursed and when she got top teeth, they would dig into my nipple no matter how I tried to latch her.

She never did the textbook babbling and was a late talker. She doesn't stop talking now at 3!

[fruitfulmomma]

Looks tied to me.

[sunflower64]

Well that's what I thought... is it too late to get it clipped? I'd really like to nurse for a long while yet...

[fruitfulmomma]

You could do it at any time but current medical opinion is to leave it alone until the adult teeth start coming in, so I think you'd have a harder time finding someone to do it. Our pediatric dentist has looked at them on a few of my children and said they were okay for now, but we'd check again as they get older. He did mention that there is the option of doing it with laser, but I can't remember who he said does that - ear, nose, and throat maybe???

Is it causing problems with nursing? DD4, 26mo, is tongue and lipped tied but it hasn't caused us any issues with nursing so far, so I haven't been really fighting the issue.

[sunflower64]

Yes, we've had painful nursing for 9 months as her top lip curls under and her latch is very shallow because of it. We've seen 3 lactation consultants and an OT about her oral issues, and none of them have helped(the LCs did not look in her mouth, and we didn't know any better). I'd love to nurse until she weans herself... but not sure if clipping that tie this late would change her latch.

[fruitfulmomma]

Oh, that is too bad. Have you posted on the health board? There are a lot of ladies over there that should be able to give you more info on the clipping aspect.

[HeatherB]

The pedi dentist who evaluated my DD's tongue tie said when there is a lip tie that she can't slide her finger across that area while staying in contact with the gum. That's a good test, I think, for your DD.

My DD does not have lip tie, though she also doesn't flange her lip when nursing and it can be painful due to that. She does/did have a posterior tongue tie, though. With major pain, I'd suggest looking into that, as well, if you haven't yet. I was able to identify that her tongue was tied with the Murphy Maneuver, described here:
http://bfmed.wordpress.com/2010/11/04/clinical-pearl-the-murphy-maneuver-for-diagnosing-tongue-tie/

A classical or anterior tongue tie is much easier to identify than a posterior, but could still be missed if no one is looking for it. I have a friend who is an LLLI who was familiar with assessing tongue ties and confirmed it, as well as an "alternative" pediatrician and, finally, the pedi dentist. But I also put in calls to quite a few ENTs and pedi dentists who all denied the existence of posterior ties. Our regular pedi and an ENT we saw for something unrelated both missed it. It's certainly not widely recognized, though it does, I think, cause plenty of problems.

Here's some more reading on the subject:

http://www.aap.org/breastfeeding/files/pdf/BBM-8-27%20Newsletter.pdf
http://books.google.com/books?id=Z9Xw3-pkz1YC&pg=PA227&lpg=PA227&dq=posterior+tongue-tie&source=bl&ots=YU4topKN7p&sig=rsocOeVv91a0afImqCrOQHnNywM&hl=en&ei=QHbGSpihL42usgPYidihBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=posterior%20tongue-tie&f=false

It is absolutely possible to get these conditions treated, even at 9 months of age. However, from what I've read, it may need to be done under general anesthesia rather than local (my daughter's tongue was clipped with no anesthesia or numbing). Finding a practitioner to do it is definitely the hardest part. We eventually had DD's done with an experienced midwife. Other possibilities include a pediatric dentist, ENT, or oral surgeon.

Definitely confirm that they're familiar with the specific condition (i.e., *posterior* tie, if she has that) before you go in for an appointment. I was very frustrated to spend $40 on doctor we were referred to who told me she wasn't tongue tied at all. We went to the MW later that day and had her posterior tie clipped, with clear and immediate changes.

I hope you can find help for your DD and your breastfeeding relationship.

[Terrilein]

My dd had a lip tie that I didn't realize was abnormal until just this last year. She's almost 10 and needs braces and they had to do the snip on her first. We never had any breastfeeding issues, though. Of my two kids, she was the better nurser!