Power struggle help- Teeth have to get brushed!

[mom2happy]

DD refused to brush her teeth for 2 days. This morning again, I said. "Time to brush teeth". DS (5) went right into the bathroom and got started. DD (who will be 8 in a month), just went into her room and ignored me. When she came out, I repeated that her teeth need to be cleaned. She knows about tooth decay, dentist,... blah blah. She just wouldn't do it.

The baby was fussy and I waited until I was calm to deal with the situation again.

The next time (an hour later), I said her teeth needed to be brushed, she claimed that she doesn't know how and wanted me to do it.

I told her she is going to be 8 and of course she knows how. She yelled at me as I repeated for her to go into the bathroom and brush! She still refused. I took her into the bathroom and told her to get started. She wound up hitting, kicking me, and having a total tantrum. I had to restrain her so that me and the other kids wouldn't get hurt and make her stay in her room. After her rage was over, she came out and finally when she thought I would not let her watch a show, listened when I told her to brush her teeth. It wasn't until the evening.

I was a rotten mom today. Sometimes I just don't know what to do in these situations.

 I just have these flashes of her teenage years and I am terrified.

The ONLY ONLY ONLY other options in dealing with this were to just not care if her teeth rot- let her know it's fine to completely disobey me, or to treat her like a toddler and do it myself.

Any advice?

[pianojazzgirl]

Do you have any insight as to *why* she's suddenly refusing to brush her teeth?  Maybe you could sit down with her at a calm time and hash it out.  Ask her if she can explain what's going on.  Explain (even though she already knows) why teeth brushing in non-negotiable.  Ask her for ideas of how you guys can make sure this gets done without a battle.

Would you be willing to help her brush her teeth?  Maybe she craves that little time of being "babied" by mama?  Perhaps you guys could reach a compromise where you agree to do all the teeth brushing for a week but at the end of the week she needs to start doing it again (or whatever version would work for you).  Or maybe (if needing a little "babying" is what she's looking for) you guys could brainstorm another way she could get that (if you're not willing to do the tooth brushing).  Is there anything new going on with her that might have her a little unsettled?  How old is your babe - could this be a symptom of difficulty adjusting to a new sibling?

[NellieKatz]

This is interesting. My son is 8 and I have been telling myself recently (because it is easy to forget) that I need to "change the tapes" in my head, as well as what comes out of my mouth automatically. Consider this: She is 8 and should not need to be told that it's time to brush her teeth, right? I mean, she probably knows, after 8 years on earth, just when you expect her to brush her teeth. Is there any chance that her attitude is coming from a place of her feeling like you are insulting her intelligence?

I struggle with this sometimes, but it's true...they are growing and changing and like to be given credit where credit is due. Perhaps instead of telling her it's time to brush teeth, just don't say anything. And when it's time for the next thing (for example you're going to read books to her at bedtime after tooth brushing, or perhaps when you're going to do something fun with her during the day), you ask before beginning "did you brush your teeth?" And if the answer is No, you simply don't do that next thing with her until the teeth are handled. That way she gets the chance to look like she's competent to know her daily routine. This is just a thought...obviously I don't know her personality.

I remember a book about male/female communication by Deborah Tannen called "You Just Don't Understand Me" or something like that. An example from the book stuck with me. This is how I remember it; it could be wrong: A man was just about to turn down the heat, but just as he was going over to the thermostat, the wife said from the other room "Honey can you turn down the heat?" And then the man suddenly didn't want to do it any more. Now, I read this book ten years ago I think, so details of the example is probably somewhat different than I remember it. But the point I got from it was that the man wanted the credit, the autonomy...not to be talked to like a child....and so when the wife reminded him to do this thing, he felt resentful and didn't want to do it. Maybe the same thing happens with kids. It wouldn't surprise me.

[ElliesMomma]

i don't have an 8 yo, but for morning "brushings," i'm already doing what my parents did with me and my three brothers -- give the kids an apple in the morning. as in, either brush or eat an apple. 

it works at cleaning your teeth. especially for morning brushings  IF the kid does a real toothpaste brushing in the evening before bed, and then doesn't eat anything overnight. if that's the case then the morning brushing is really just erasing the "morning breath."

the reason i say that "it works" -- between me and my three brothers, we got through childhood and into college with ZERO cavities.

my daughter is almost 5 and according to the dentist has "perfect teeth."

[mom2happy]

Originally Posted by pianojazzgirl 

Do you have any insight as to *why* she's suddenly refusing to brush her teeth?  Maybe you could sit down with her at a calm time and hash it out.  Ask her if she can explain what's going on.  Explain (even though she already knows) why teeth brushing in non-negotiable.  Ask her for ideas of how you guys can make sure this gets done without a battle.

Would you be willing to help her brush her teeth?  Maybe she craves that little time of being "babied" by mama?  Perhaps you guys could reach a compromise where you agree to do all the teeth brushing for a week but at the end of the week she needs to start doing it again (or whatever version would work for you).  Or maybe (if needing a little "babying" is what she's looking for) you guys could brainstorm another way she could get that (if you're not willing to do the tooth brushing).  Is there anything new going on with her that might have her a little unsettled?  How old is your babe - could this be a symptom of difficulty adjusting to a new sibling?

I asked her why when she was calm later in the evening. She said she just does not feel that she should have to brush her teeth 2 times a day. She knows they are "supposed" to be brushed 2-3 times a day according to the dentist and hygienist, but she doesn't believe it's necessary.

When she feels strongly about something she just puts her foot down and no matter what- sticks to her guns.

Yes, she is adjusting to a new sibling (10 months old now). At first everything was fine, but when the baby was about 3 months old, I could see that she was getting jealous and a little annoyed by the baby. I am very careful to make sure DD1 gets the attention she needs and make her a part of everything.

I could have avoided this whole thing if I just brushed them for her, but I have 3 kids and all the work to do in this house by myself. Sometimes I just can't deal with it. She is getting too big for this stuff and treating her like a baby isn't going to help. I just don't know what the right thing to do is sometimes.

[NellieKatz]

It's funny who the kids will listen to. My son, who got his first cavity at age 7 (I was crestfallen when the perfect record fell...we worked so hard) has always loves going to the dentist because for 7 years it was full of fun chit-chat with the hygienist and positive feedback about his teeth. Even his filling was painless so he still likes going there. So when I spoke to the hygienist about it being harder to get him to brush his teeth now that he is bigger, she talked to him about it and gave him a little "hourglass" timer for two minutes, and told him to brush his teeth for two minutes. I was nowhere in sight when this conversation took place. As it turns out, two minutes feels like an eternity, but he doesn't object. At night he dutifully gets out that timer and brushes for a solid two minutes. Unfortunately the morning brushing went away. So I am planning to talk to the hygienist in advance of his next 6-month visit, which comes up next month. I want her to talk to him about the effect that brushing has on a whole range of things, from morning breath to health throughout the body. Sometimes it helps to hear it from someone besides naggy mom. If that doesn't help, we're going to find a professionally-produced video.

All this because I am a firm believer that HE has to internalize the desire to do the teeth; otherwise he will probably do what I did when I left home at age 17. "A hah," I thought to myself. "I can do whatever the hell I want because my parents aren't around to bug me." And promptly ran into all sorts of trouble, teeth among them. I acted like I was rebelling against THEM, but by neglecting my teeth I was really only hurting myself. I want my SON's reason for brushing to be because he wants to take care of himself. In this and in all things, habits won't stick unless they take root inside the child.

btw, I love the apples idea!

[mom2grrls]

I could have avoided this whole thing if I just brushed them for her, but I have 3 kids and all the work to do in this house by myself. Sometimes I just can't deal with it. She is getting too big for this stuff and treating her like a baby isn't going to help. I just don't know what the right thing to do is sometimes.>>>>>>>>>>>

Perhaps helping her brush a couple of times may help.  Older kids sometimes may want some extra attention for a bit and then once it's given go back to "normal".   Perhaps you could sit down with her and both of you come up with solutions to this problem.

[pianojazzgirl]

Originally Posted by mom2grrls 

I could have avoided this whole thing if I just brushed them for her, but I have 3 kids and all the work to do in this house by myself. Sometimes I just can't deal with it. She is getting too big for this stuff and treating her like a baby isn't going to help. I just don't know what the right thing to do is sometimes.>>>>>>>>>>>

Perhaps helping her brush a couple of times may help.  Older kids sometimes may want some extra attention for a bit and then once it's given go back to "normal".   Perhaps you could sit down with her and both of you come up with solutions to this problem.

I guess that's where my thinking was going too.  I know my best friend had that experience with her ds (now 8.5) when her dd (now 1yo) was born. 

[ssh]

Originally Posted by mom2happy 

DD refused to brush her teeth for 2 days. This morning again, I said. "Time to brush teeth". DS (5) went right into the bathroom and got started. DD (who will be 8 in a month), just went into her room and ignored me. When she came out, I repeated that her teeth need to be cleaned. She knows about tooth decay, dentist,... blah blah. She just wouldn't do it.

The baby was fussy and I waited until I was calm to deal with the situation again.

The next time (an hour later), I said her teeth needed to be brushed, she claimed that she doesn't know how and wanted me to do it.

I told her she is going to be 8 and of course she knows how. She yelled at me as I repeated for her to go into the bathroom and brush! She still refused. I took her into the bathroom and told her to get started. She wound up hitting, kicking me, and having a total tantrum. I had to restrain her so that me and the other kids wouldn't get hurt and make her stay in her room. After her rage was over, she came out and finally when she thought I would not let her watch a show, listened when I told her to brush her teeth. It wasn't until the evening.

I was a rotten mom today. Sometimes I just don't know what to do in these situations.

 I just have these flashes of her teenage years and I am terrified.

The ONLY ONLY ONLY other options in dealing with this were to just not care if her teeth rot- let her know it's fine to completely disobey me, or to treat her like a toddler and do it myself.

Any advice?

It sounds like she really needed some attention and when asking you to brush her teeth didn't work a tantrum did.  I don't try to physically make my 5 year old do things and really wouldn't with an 8 year old. Like others I've let DD choose to eat an apple instead of brush. You could also have a conversation about the fact that once a day is fine for some people and others need to brush 3 or 4 to have a healthy mouth. It has to do with genetics, acid balance in your mouth and saliva production. So if your DD has never had a cavity and doesn't usually have bad breath she might be one of those lucky people who don't need to brush more than once a day. My DH doesn't. I and my DD do. We also chew gum with xylitol after eating but between brushing.

If you continue to have the same standards about her doing exactly what you tell her to do as you have now, you will have problems during her teen years. As kids get older they are pulling away from mom and trying to learn how to take care of themselves and regulate their own behavior. The younger a  child is the more hands on discipline is. With older kids it's more having a group of reasonable guidelines and if the kid doesn't meet them you have a talk about why it didn't happen. Maybe developing trust is a better goal now instead of expecting obedience.