outdoor kitties - your opinion - Page 4

[tonttu]

I agree with Kara , a house cat is a domestic animal , not a lion , you put in the house , lock the door and expect it to be happy .

And if they have been indoor only for their whole life , they don´t know any better .

The argument , some people use , that cats need their freedom is something , you look at from a human point of view .

If you have a pet , you have responsibility and letting a cat roam (which they will) is not taking proper care of it . 

Plus , there are cats , who don´t want to go outside anymore . I pulled one of my cats out of a river in the middle of winter after some a... abused her , burned her whiskers off and then dumped her in inside a garbage bag .

And you can tell , that there is no way , she would want to go outside anymore , she definitely had enough of her share of the free life outside ! 

[ramama]

Originally Posted by tonttu 

I agree with Kara , a house cat is a domestic animal , not a lion , you put in the house , lock the door and expect it to be happy .

And if they have been indoor only for their whole life , they don´t know any better .

The argument , some people use , that cats need their freedom is something , you look at from a human point of view .

If you have a pet , you have responsibility and letting a cat roam (which they will) is not taking proper care of it . 

Plus , there are cats , who don´t want to go outside anymore . I pulled one of my cats out of a river in the middle of winter after some a... abused her , burned her whiskers off and then dumped her in inside a garbage bag .

And you can tell , that there is no way , she would want to go outside anymore , she definitely had enough of her share of the free life outside ! 

Where does one get a cat that has been inside it's entire life?  We certainly don't buy from breeders, only going to the shelter.  All the cats I've had in my life were former strays from the shelter, or surrendered feral cats.  Even the ones that were owner-surrendered were former strays.  I'm not saying that cats who have been indoors their whole life don't exist (obviously they do) but I think that the vast majority of cats have been outside at some point or another.  Yearning to go outside is instinctual for cats.  Whether you let them or not is another issue, but I don't think that we can really argue that an animal that has never been outside doesn't know better and won't want to go out.

[marinak1977]

I've worked with a few biologists who tagged and studied the songbirds populations in Seattle area. Each year they lost upward of 30% of the tagged birds to cat predation. The local birds in the Americas did not evolve with small feline predators and are easy prey for cats.
I therefore feel strongly about letting pet cats roam unsupervised, and even more strongly about spaying and neutering. Feral cat populations are the real danger to the native small animals.

[Eyelet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamsmom98 

If your cat comes onto my property, I will take action.  You will get just one warning and your cat returned, if I recognize that the cat belongs to you. 

No second warnings or returns. 

S.S.S.

End. Of. Story.

I think it's reasonable that some people do not want cats on their property but I'm not sure I fully understand this correctly. Are you suggesting that, um... you would kill a cat? 

[meemee]

Originally Posted by tonttu 

And if they have been indoor only for their whole life , they don´t know any better .

The argument , some people use , that cats need their freedom is something , you look at from a human point of view .

you know i dont think its a human point of view. i mean even humans need freedom. 

i think there are two kinds of cats just like us. homebodies and outdoorsy. and trying to turn them into the opposite is going to make them miserable. i've had both kinds. 

a responsible person will make sure their cat is safe - no matter where they are. just like our children. 

i noticed my cat just loves to sit and watch bugs and birds in the backyard. and also run like crazy. she has a lot fo energy in her and she loves running. however she is a people cat so even though she has the option of going out whenever she wants to, she chooses to be home with us. rather she chooses to be with us wherever we go. if we are in the backyard she is with us. but sometimes she likes being outside sitting in her favourite spot watching. we also make it a point to go hang out in teh backyard with her because she also has so much energy in her. she needs to run around like crazy sometimes to get it out of her. much like dd - so they make a good team. 

[nd_deadhead]

Originally Posted by ramama 

Where does one get a cat that has been inside it's entire life?  We certainly don't buy from breeders, only going to the shelter.  All the cats I've had in my life were former strays from the shelter, or surrendered feral cats.  Even the ones that were owner-surrendered were former strays.  I'm not saying that cats who have been indoors their whole life don't exist (obviously they do) but I think that the vast majority of cats have been outside at some point or another.  Yearning to go outside is instinctual for cats.  Whether you let them or not is another issue, but I don't think that we can really argue that an animal that has never been outside doesn't know better and won't want to go out.

I don't think it's necessary for a cat to be indoors its entire life to be happy indoors. I know 4 cats that were born in dairy barns, and went on to become happy inddor-only kitties. Sure, they loved to watch birds at the feeder out the window - but one of them also loved to watch car racing on TV, and I don't think that meant that he wanted to go racing.

I just read a great article in National Geographic about domestication. A group in Russia has developed domestic foxes, in about 50 years. These animals are not just tolerant of human contact, they beg for it. They act much more like dogs than any hand-reared wild fox. They have determined that there is a genetic component to the domestic traits - kits from a parallel wild strain, raised by a tame mother, does not have the same domestic characteristics as the specially bred human-friendly foxes.

Cats have been domestic for thousands of years. They are meant to be pets, and they are meant to live in harmony with humans. If cats are still so close to their wild ancestry that they are unable to adapt to the confines of living indoors, then perhaps they are not meant to be pets at all.

[ramama]

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead 

I don't think it's necessary for a cat to be indoors its entire life to be happy indoors. I know 4 cats that were born in dairy barns, and went on to become happy inddor-only kitties. Sure, they loved to watch birds at the feeder out the window - but one of them also loved to watch car racing on TV, and I don't think that meant that he wanted to go racing.

I just read a great article in National Geographic about domestication. A group in Russia has developed domestic foxes, in about 50 years. These animals are not just tolerant of human contact, they beg for it. They act much more like dogs than any hand-reared wild fox. They have determined that there is a genetic component to the domestic traits - kits from a parallel wild strain, raised by a tame mother, does not have the same domestic characteristics as the specially bred human-friendly foxes.

Cats have been domestic for thousands of years. They are meant to be pets, and they are meant to live in harmony with humans. If cats are still so close to their wild ancestry that they are unable to adapt to the confines of living indoors, then perhaps they are not meant to be pets at all.

No, I agree with you.  I was just disagreeing with a PP who said that if a cat is indoors its whole life, it won't know any better and won't want to go outside.  Our cat, a former stray, infrequently makes a break for it, and then darts immediately back inside LOL, as if to say "Oh, crap, I remember this.  Being stray sucks!"  It's funny to watch.  But there are some cats who will make a break for it no matter how comfortable and loving an indoor life it has.

I think I head about the domestication of foxes on NPR.  Was it that program that noted that domestication also changes the appearance of an animal?  Like, the foxes started looking like dogs, with a differentiation in coat patterns that wasn't seen in the wild?  It is very interesting.  However, foxes are in the canine family.  Yes, cats have been "domesticated" for a long time, but that domestication has only very recently required them to live indoors only with humans.  Throughout those thousands of years prior, they were largely outdoor pets.  The took food from humans, craved human contact, and were civilized around humans, but were not required to be indoors, just to co-exist harmoniously.  I don't really think that they are still so close to their wild ancestors, but I don't think that they have been domesticated to the extent that dogs have.

I'm not sure what percentage of cats live indoors only, but I doubt that the further domestication of cats is even moving in the indoor-only direction now.

[Magali]

Originally Posted by grahamsmom98 

Build a cat kennel or walk your cat on a leash.  Let your PET cats roam and they pay the price for your irresponsibility as a pet owner. 

I value the native wildlife more than your wandering pet.

If your cat comes onto my property, I will take action.  You will get just one warning and your cat returned, if I recognize that the cat belongs to you. 

No second warnings or returns. 

S.S.S.

End. Of. Story.

I am curious as to how you make cats pay for the irresponsibility of their owners.

[tonttu]

Yep , grahamsmom , I´d like to know as well , what it is exactly you have in mind with a cat , that´s wandering into your yard ?!

But honestly , from what I read between the lines already , you are exactly the kind of person, that makes me keep my treasured pets inside . I do not want to expose them to lunatics , that will do God-knows-what to them , simply because they follow their nature !

[AAK]

Originally Posted by Agatha_Ann 

We are a ranching community and I actually don't know anyone who has an indoor cat. Cats around here are a live in the barn type of animal rather than a pet. We do have a couple of cats that sometimes ask to come in when it is really really cold outside, but that is pretty rare. If they stay relatively close to home they will be safe, but we have lost some over the years to coyotes and foxes.

These cats serve a pretty important purpose in my opinion by keeping the mice, ground squirrels, and other pests under control. All these things are damaging to our livestock and fields. The cats help prevent the problems.

I totally agree with keeping cats inside if you live in a busy area, but not everyone does, and not everyone has leash laws either.

We live semi-rural (zoned rural, but very close to some neighborhoods).  We got cats specifically for mouse control.  That said, they are our pets as well.  We feed them at night--this ensures that they will always be home at dinnertime.  They stay in the garage (closed) at night.  If it gets really cold, we either add heat to the garage or bring them in.  One of our cats is now classified as "indoor/outdoor" because she and our other female that we got later didn't get along.  The "newbie" female started protecting the garage and wouldn't let her come close.  So, we brought that cat in.  She goes in and out and generally avoids the other cat.  That "other" cat though is our best mouser.  She get occassional birds too.  Now, 2 cats are 5yr and our great mouser is 4 yr.  So, they are still very young.  But, it is very rare that I can't find them.  But, we live a bit of land and I think the cats somehow know that this is their zone.  They stay close to the house because we have given them tons of attention from the start.  

If we lived on a busy road, that would be different.  

Amy

[alicia622]

I am okay with outdoor cats so long as they are living in the country on a quiet road and you don't attract birds to the area.  When our first two cats were younger, we lived in a more rural area (not country though) and they were allowed out. Lola was catnapped once, and both brought home multiple dead creatures to us.  We moved to a major road and they became and have stayed indoor cats. Lola did escape a couple winters ago- we found her a month later in the crawl space- skinny but fine.  She has had other adventures as well.  I don't mind keeping them inside, we have tried the leashes in the past and that was kind of ridiculous (I think you need to start them early to learn it!).  Bailey (RIP) and Zeus were never outdoor cats and neither ever desired to go out. Sidney (RIP) and Lola both tried to get out. I would rather have my cats safe and sound in the house than out where they can easily get run over, bothered by mean people, catnapped, killing birds at the feeders in the neighborhood...  I think the ideal solution is to create an outside cat area that keeps them safe but also allows them to enjoy the sunshine, grass...