resturant serving breastmilk icecream UPDATE it's been confiscated! - Page 2

[swede]

Originally Posted by Smokering 

Is that the point? Even if a mother could breastfeed but chooses not to for the most frivolous or silly reason, it's still better for the baby to be fed donated breastmilk than formula. So it's still a far better use than making ice cream out of it. Yes, ideally babies should get breastmilk from their own mothers, but it's not their fault if their mothers won't do it, even if they can. Like bone marrow donation - ideally a relative will do it, but if someone's dying, who'd say "Well, your mother and sister were both matches, but they refused, so I'll make bone marrow soup out of mine instead!"? (OK, another gross analogy. I'm on a roll today...) In other words: the mothers might not "need" it, but the babies definitely do.

I do agree that the infrastructure of milk banks is a problem, but there are plenty of people who arrange donation privately. It can be done.

Eavesdrop: I believe the theory goes that breastmilk is indeed vegan, because it's freely given. Don't know about the ice cream itself, though - does it have egg yolks in it? Breastmilk isn't that creamy, so I imagine they'd have to use egg yolks or cream to make up the richness... unless they just used hindmilk, or even separated the cream from the breastmilk? Fascinating thought....

What I meant was, how many women who "choose" not to breastfeed, would then go ahead and use donor milk? 
 

[Eavesdrop]

It's hers to sell. No need to put a moral weight on it. Many people 'waste' things that would be better put to use elsewhere.

 

[DaughterOfKali]

My initial thought was "That's weird" but then I had another thought.  Drinking milk from an entirely different species is the weird thing (and yes, I eat/drink dairy.)

[limabean]

Originally Posted by Smokering 
I think it can, when there are literally millions of babies out there in need of it, and thousands of other ways adults can get their nutrition. Yes, it's not as wasteful as tipping it down the drain, but given the preciousness and - oddly enough - scarcity of the resource, it could be put to far, far better uses. 

I see what you're saying, but the same argument could apply whenever you buy anything that you don't absolutely need. There are millions of people out there starving and dying of preventable disease, so any money we spend on a new cell phone, or roller skates for our kids' birthdays, or even a pack of gum could be saving someone's life instead. And yet most of us make the decision to spend at least some money on wants instead of just meeting our basic needs and then giving all the excess money to charity. 

[Smokering]

What I meant was, how many women who "choose" not to breastfeed, would then go ahead and use donor milk?

Dunno. Some might. There are women who choose not to breastfeed because they worry it will "ruin" their breasts, or they don't want to be tied to the baby, or they have issues with past sexual abuse. Those reasons wouldn't preclude them from using donor milk, as opposed to the "ew breastfeeding is gross" mentality. If it were a) readily available and b) well-marketed (and perhaps even c) subsidised), it might become a more attractive option than formula for some women at least.

I see what you're saying, but the same argument could apply whenever you buy anything that you don't absolutely need. There are millions of people out there starving and dying of preventable disease, so any money we spend on a new cell phone, or roller skates for our kids' birthdays, or even a pack of gum could be saving someone's life instead. And yet most of us make the decision to spend at least some money on wants instead of just meeting our basic needs and then giving all the excess money to charity.

Sure, except that breastmilk is a rather more specific substance than money. Fewer people can produce it, it has qualities that can't be substituted (whereas you can donate money or food or clothes or time to combat poverty, etc). Plus, in the majority of cases, breastmilk isn't "earned" the way money is - hence my blood donor analogy. And anyway, we're not talking about buying excess things - I'm sure plenty of people here have issues with rampant consumerism.

Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying women should be forced into giving their excess breastmilk to a milk bank, or prevented from selling it to a frivolous cause. It is, after all, their milk. All I'm saying is that I don't like it - it's using an incredibly needed, incredibly precious resource in a frivolous manner. No adult will suffer adverse health consequences through not having breastmilk ice cream, as far as we know; but there's a ton of research out there showing that babies who don't get breastmilk can suffer lifelong health problems and death because of it. It seems just messed up, like a rich person in Africa buying a ton of AIDS medication and using the bottles to make an attractive wall display. Sure it's his money, he can do it if he wants, but under the circumstances it seems crass. And I'd hazard a guess that most people would find it more crass (logically or illogically) than him simply having the money, because it's so darned obvious what the stuff is for and how it could best be used.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by Smokering 
It seems just messed up, like a rich person in Africa buying a ton of AIDS medication and using the bottles to make an attractive wall display. Sure it's his money, he can do it if he wants, but under the circumstances it seems crass.

Okay, I guess we should stop using analogies. It's too tempting for both of us to say, "Well that's not the same because..." We just disagree, that's all. 

[BeckyBird]

At first, I thought the breastmilk ice cream idea was great. I like to hear anything positive about breastmilk.
However, Smokering makes an excellent point. When you think about it, it is pretty sad that the milk isn't being used for somebody who might need it. Her "blood pudding" analogy is spot on.

[Eavesdrop]

The woman (according to the article, there's just one) who sold her breast milk to be made into ice cream isn't any more obligated to donate her milk to a milk bank to be given to actual babies than any other lactating woman is.

[ramama]

Originally Posted by Smokering 

Yeah, I find the waste aspect disconcerting too. I don't think breastmilk is just for babies (or toddlers!); apparently cancer patients benefit from it immensely. I believe during the Renaissance breastmilk was fed quite often to the sick and elderly. And that's pretty cool. But ice cream? Yeah, no. Also, from a Traditional Foods perspective, pasteurising it seems faintly heretical. :p

In the Middle Ages (and later) women commonly drank breastmilk (from another woman) during labor to ease the pain.  There is evidence, in colonial America, that a reverend fell ill, and was on his death bed.  His wife tended him at night and his diary reveals that she "supplies me with breastmilk" and he recovered and lived another 30 years.  The history of the uses of breastmilk is quite interesting!

[LaughingHyena]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12569011

I wonder how popular it will be. My first thought was is it really organic, wouldn't the women have to have completely organic diets for them to be able to claim that? I don't know anyone who has a 100% organic diet.

I don't know if I'd try it though, I've tasted my own milk many times but it would still feel a bit odd to try someone elses. I've also donated milk to a hospital milk bank which seems a better use than making icecream.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12615353

Two complaints and the council have confiscated the ice cream to make sure its safe. They say they are screening the donors and pasteurising the milk, assuming that's true (and I have no reason not to believe it) it should be safe. Milk banks use the same techniques and give the milk to the tiniest babies!

I guess if there aim was to get people talking they are achieving it.

[Annie Mac]

Originally Posted by LaughingHyena 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12569011

I wonder how popular it will be. My first thought was is it really organic, wouldn't the women have to have completely organic diets for them to be able to claim that? I don't know anyone who has a 100% organic diet.

I don't know if I'd try it though, I've tasted my own milk many times but it would still feel a bit odd to try someone elses. I've also donated milk to a hospital milk bank which seems a better use than making icecream.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12615353

Two complaints and the council have confiscated the ice cream to make sure its safe. They say they are screening the donors and pasteurising the milk, assuming that's true (and I have no reason not to believe it) it should be safe. Milk banks use the same techniques and give the milk to the tiniest babies!

I guess if there aim was to get people talking they are achieving it.

Huh. Interesting. Can't say I'm too surprised. You can put BHA, BHT, nitrates, nitrites, my latest favourite azodicarbonamide (wiki it), etc. But breastmilk? NO WAY!

[Viola]

Originally Posted by Eavesdrop 

Is it vegan?

I think it depends on how you define vegan.  If you don't think it is exploiting the human animal that produces it, then I could see a vegan eating it.  But maybe you'd want the mother to have a vegan diet, or there would be issues with it because of feeling like it was taking breastmilk from children, or something.