MY DD2 is suffering and I can't seem to get her healed or to know exactly the problem - please help

[eastkygal]

This is sort of a long story.  I really need some outside input at this point.  DD2 is almost 3.  Ever since she started drinking anything other than breastmilk she has drank water from the coal bank spring that the entire holler and area around get their water from.  She has suffered with diarrhea and stomach cramps for a very long time, and has always been a poor eater.  She barely weighs 30lbs. now, and I think she has lost some weight.

Anyway, I had her to the family doctor as it was constant complaints from her and diarrhea all the time.  The family doc sent her to a pediatric gastrointerologist.  He ran lots of bloodwork, testing for celiacs the whole nine yards.  Tested her stool for parasites, etc...  In the meantime, my Dad (an environmental engineer) ran water tests of our well water and the coal bank spring.  Both of those water tests came back - not fit for human consumption.  The well water (which we bath, brush our teeth with) came back + for coliforms.  The drinking water came back + for both E. Coli and Coliforms.  No one else in the house was sick like DD2.  However, I no longer bathe the girls at our cabin.  We only drink bottled water and jug water from the store.

All DD2's bloodwork came back good.  Dr. prescribed DD2 Flagyl... she went through 2 rounds.  The diarrhea improved, but the cramping seemed to worsen.  She had an Upper GI which came back normal.  Dr. then prescribed her Nexium saying he believes her stomach produces too much acid.  The Nexium seems to harden her stool and sometimes worsen her cramping as well.  So, I only give it when things are not looking good, or the diarrhea comes on.  I told the Dr. my concerns, he said I should give it everyday.

I don't know that I believe that diagnosis, though I know he's the doc... I'm not. 

Now, DD2 has days where she poos a lot.  The poo now seems to scald her bottom and leave bug bite looking bumps on her butt that itch and burn her.  She cries when she poos.  I feel so bad for her, and I don't know that we are at the end.  A lifetime or long time on acid reducers just doesn't seem right to me.  She drinks no juices.  She doesn't eat acidic foods.  I'm beside myself and I want to help her.  She seems to be emotionally affected by all this too.  She's grumpy a lot.  Cries a lot.  Is very clingy....  I'm afraid not feeling well affects her personality. 

Does anyone have any ideas of other avenues to explore to help her body straighten back out?

[allnaturalmom]

I couldn't read and not post a hug... 

I would look into a good probiotic for her. (If she's not on one already.) We use Natren brand and they have always worked very well for us. I think that would be my first step to healing her gut. Of course I would have her off of dairy and wheat, too... why make it harder on her - at least while she is healing. 

gl

hth

[MovnMama]

Also couldn't read and not post. So sorry you and DD are going through this.

I second the probiotic suggestion and also a really simple modified diet and then adding foods... I'm talking broth and rice, then maybe add applesauce and bananas as she's feeling better, and working with the probiotic. After a while, maybe you can add things like plain crackers, a little ginger tea... taking it really slowly.

It seems from the tests you ran that the water (which was fine for those of you in the neighborhood with hardier stomachs) probably was the start of the problem but now, with all these prescription drugs, etc, all these new additions to her system, that her body may not have had the time (weeks? months?) to heal itself after being ill for so long. ETA: sounds like the rash and skin irritation happens in concert with the prescription. Does the rash happen when she's not on the pills? It may be a case of the cure is worse than the disease.

I'm speaking as a fellow human with a quite sensitive stomach. No real diagnosis, just... sensitive. Easily upset. For example, I went winter camping recently and we drank snowmelt - I wanted to boil it, but everyone else (3 others + DS) were okay not boiling it, just filtering. In the end, I had a week of diarrhea and nausea, and no one else did. Some people are just sensitive in the tummy. She doesn't need to be "formally diagnosed" with IBS or whatever, and then get a bunch of pills to treat it. She just needs to heal. IMHO. If, after a long time with no improvement, get a second opinion from a natural-minded doc. 

As a long term issue, if you love your cabin lifestyle, I would consider getting purification system for your well water. (This involves plumbing - don't know if you have that already but it's something to consider). Most people here in AK have those for their wells, and well water is (because of this) typically considered better than town water, despite the occasional sediment (which I figure you must be okay with, having pulled water from a spring for so long).

Hope your DD heals soon. 

[ghannit]

I feel so bad for your little one! My DD is 3 too.  I wish I had some definitive advise, but all I have for certain is my own experience and that of parenting my daughter. When DD was 7 months old or so, she was having diarrhea and a nasty rash came with that. I was nursing exclusively at the time and although she was happy and otherwise healthy, it was distressing. I began taking a good probiotic, and at about 11 months old I began giving her a good one too (in the morning in applesauce).

Within a month or so she never had diarrhea again. Coincidence? Who knows, but I don't think so. Based on this, I strongly agree with the probiotic recommendations. I still give my DD a dose every morning.

I have also been using coconut oil in our food and on our skin. There seems to be good evidence that it's got antibacterial properties, and that it can help with diarrhea/constipation. I know it's great on my irritable combo skin. DD still gets occasional bum rashes, but they respond well to tee tree oil and coconut oil after a bath. Also, mix some pure water with some tea tree oil in a spray/mist bottle and mist/wipe the area after any toilet/potty use.   

Another thing mentioned by the PP was avoiding wheat/milk. I rarely give DD grains of any sort. I know that my tummy feels better avoiding them. Less gassy, bloated etc... so considering that (and what else I've read about grains and tummy issues) I agree that it'd be a good idea to keep these out while she heals.

I'm a bit confused about why the Dr. prescribed Flagyl when your DD's tests came back clear... it seems like it was some sort of shot in the dark?

I hope she heals soon!

[KimPM]

Originally Posted by MovnMama 
I second the probiotic suggestion and also a really simple modified diet and then adding foods... I'm talking broth and rice, then maybe add applesauce and bananas as she's feeling better, and working with the probiotic. 

  and keep a dated journal as you add foods. Give at least a couple days between adding foods.  If she has a reaction, you can go back to your journal to find out which one is a problem. Keep in mind that whatever foods you start with could also be a problem, so if you start with broth and rice, either of those could be a problem, so be ready to switch one of those to something else, like changing the rice for quinoa (not wheat).

I also agree with the water purification system (as opposed to a water filtration system).  A purifier is rated to actually remove bacteria and cycts from the water.  You can get standalone units that you pour the spring water into (it doesn't have to be plumbed-in).  Typically these have a ceramic or Doulton "filter" for purification.  The pore size on those is too small for bacteria and cysts to get through.

I'm also wondering if some herbs can help treat a GI infection.  A naturopath can help you there.  I'm thinking of herbs like goldenseal, olive leaf, etc. You could also consider calendula for GI soothing.

I'd also be wary of the Nexium.  I doubt the problem is too much acid.  I'd look in another direction.

Has she had a good stool test?  Metametrix has one that identifies the DNA of all kinds of things - parasites, bacteria, fungi, and what herbals & pharmaceuticals the bacteria and fungi are sensitive to (ie how you can eliminate them).  Well worth the price.  If you can't find a dr to run the test, you can order it from directlabs.com.

[eastkygal]

Thank you so much for replying.  I give the Nexium only when she gets bad off with the cramping.  So, the only side effect that I have noticed from the Nexium is hardened stools.  The Dr. prescribed the Flagyl because of the water test results, and she was + for blood in her rectum.  I give her probiotic as often as I have access to one.  But, I should probably order some online.  She also eats the Activa yogurt.  We have a fairly healthy diet, but DD2 is an extremely picky eater - breads, hamburger meat, and on occassion eggs, is mainly it.  I thank you all so much for your thoughts.  I will have to respond more when I get more time to do so.  As of now, I think I'm going to get her in with naturally minded RN who practices in our area.

[mbravebird]

I've heard from folks who have taken Flagyl that it's awful -- feels awful. It has some significant side effects; you might need to take that into consideration when looking at her current symptoms. I know that not all tests pick up parasites when they're there, and I would be very surprised if she didn't pick up parasites from the water. I just got through a bout with parasites, and I think it all started when we rehabbed an old well before we moved into our last house. My website has some ideas for things that treat parasites that also support digestive health, and are safe for children. There are the herbs that I used, and then there are others that I didn't try also listed... http://www.howigotmyhealthback.com

Does she take pills? You could give her pills with bentonite clay in them. Reading what you wrote, I think of clay, coconut oil, and herbal infusions of plantain or comfrey leaf to soothe the intestines, and then other herbs to support digestion and get rid of parasites and bacteria. Olive leaf is one that may do all of that.

And yes, probiotics. Poor babe. But she can spring back quickly from this, once you get it figured out. After I got rid of parasites, my gut has been healing like crazycakes, like it never did before.

[eastkygal]

I know the Flagyl has probably done a number on her gut.  It has been at least 2 months since her last round of Flagyl though.  The doctor told me that he believes that aside from the bacteria tainted water, that he thinks she was born with a stomach that produces too much acid, or has one as the result of stress.  I have a hard time with that conclusion because she never had trouble breastfeeding - didn't have GERD nor did she spit up more than normal.  Also, I can't see how she could be stressed.  I stay home with her.  She gets plenty of interaction... though she is very disagreeable and often grumpy or whiny/crying.  Would that be from stress?  I can't think of anything that would be the cause if so.

So, I do believe that her gut is either sensitive or still fighting the problems caused by our water.  DD1 who is five has never had any trouble/illness like this from the water.  I'm not satisfied with the Nexium as the fix it for an overactive gut. 

I'm so upset today because she had the worst episode yet.  She screamed and flailed her arms, buckled over in pain then laid lethargic on the hardwood floor for half an hour.  Then, about an hour ago she did it again, but vomitted this time.  She is sleeping now.  I called the doctor's office as they have after hours to see if it was possible to see the GI doctor today, but it isn't and they didn't think I should be in a rush to have her seen. 

We do have an RN that is much like a naturopath that I see for my health issues, that I think I will take her to tomorrow.  I'm just not sure what other sorts of tests to run on her.  He took 6 stool samples and ran double tests for parasites with 2 different samples as well.  The upper GI also showed everything normal.  I can't stand to see her in pain like this though. :(

[Annie Mac]

I have some first-hand experience with parasites & parasite meds. I had several bouts of amoebic dysentery and took the meds the pharmacy gave me for them. I don't know if they were Flagyl or not, probably, but just called something else. It is hard hard hard on a body (at least it was on mine), and it took me years to fully recover to where I could eat and digest normally again. If you are interested in more details, just PM me, but basically I followed my gut (literally) on how and what to eat. Eventually, I figured out an IBS diet worked well and helped me to heal. Lots of white foods. Lots of bland foods. Focus on soluble, vs non-soluble fibre. Low fat, low sugar, no caffeine (not like your daughter is slamming back the espressos in the morning!). Think oatmeal, bananas, white bread (yup), egg whites. I didn't have much success with anything dairy. Eventually I could tolerate ghee, and now I can eat butter again. I read a book called IBS by Heather Van Vorous that was very, very helpful with dietary guidelines. I don't know if your daughter is going through what I did, but it sounds quite similar. Poor little thing. It's painful and frightening. What did the doctor say about blood in the rectum? I also had rectal bleeding with this on and off. Is it still happening? That's something that should be followed up on & not ignored. It can indicate a number of things, from something as benign but annoying as hemorrhoids to more serious conditions. I hope she feels better soon. 

[KimPM]

I'm wondering if she has too *low* stomach acid, which didn't kill off whatever it was from the water.  Perhaps your other DD's stomach acid is just fine.

[KimPM]

Also, a paper written by my DH's doctor says he gives Flagyl to kill the microscopic parasites (amoeba) and anaerobic bacteria (clostridia).  It doesn't get other kinds of parasites, bacteria, and fungi.

The same doctor also says that when you have one parasite, it's likely you have other(s).

[ghannit]

Originally Posted by KimPM 

I'm wondering if she has too *low* stomach acid, which didn't kill off whatever it was from the water.  Perhaps your other DD's stomach acid is just fine.

This occurred to me as well. Would it be possible to try some apple cider vinegar (with "mother") in water or juice or soup? I take it and give it to my DD this way.

I actually had a horrible year of IBS in my early 20's. It correlated with my taking ridiculous amounts of antacids (thinking that I had issues due to too much acid). I can't recall when the episodes/pain fully stopped, but I know I have not experienced this pain for years and I no longer go near antacids of any sort. 

I have not made yogurt, kefir or sauerkraut myself yet, but this does seem to be the ideal way to get probiotics. If you don't have easy access to a good brand, this might be an idea.

Here is a good article I found on fermentation: 

http://www.htrnews.com/article/20110118/MAN04/101180579/1398/Sauerkraut--the-new--superfood

[KimPM]

Originally Posted by eastkygal 
I'm so upset today because she had the worst episode yet.  She screamed and flailed her arms, buckled over in pain then laid lethargic on the hardwood floor for half an hour.  Then, about an hour ago she did it again, but vomitted this time.  She is sleeping now.  I called the doctor's office as they have after hours to see if it was possible to see the GI doctor today, but it isn't and they didn't think I should be in a rush to have her seen. 

We do have an RN that is much like a naturopath that I see for my health issues, that I think I will take her to tomorrow.  I'm just not sure what other sorts of tests to run on her.  He took 6 stool samples and ran double tests for parasites with 2 different samples as well.  The upper GI also showed everything normal.  I can't stand to see her in pain like this though. :(

How is she doing today?  I sure hope she's feeling better than yesterday.  Sounded like she should have been seen yesterday :(

What parasite test did they run?  The doc my DH sees says he used to run a regular stool test which caught parasites in 17% of the persons he tested.  Now that he uses the DNA stool test, he's getting a much higher hit rate on parasites.  It's quite possible and even likely a regular stool test missed something.

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by eastkygal 

Thank you so much for replying.  I give the Nexium only when she gets bad off with the cramping.  So, the only side effect that I have noticed from the Nexium is hardened stools.  The Dr. prescribed the Flagyl because of the water test results, and she was + for blood in her rectum.  I give her probiotic as often as I have access to one.  But, I should probably order some online.  She also eats the Activa yogurt.  We have a fairly healthy diet, but DD2 is an extremely picky eater - breads, hamburger meat, and on occassion eggs, is mainly it.  I thank you all so much for your thoughts.  I will have to respond more when I get more time to do so.  As of now, I think I'm going to get her in with naturally minded RN who practices in our area.

I'm looking at it through biased eyes (my kids have food intolerances) but hamburger is hard to digest, and breads and yogurt are two of the top food intolerances. A very good stool test would tell you if she has/still has parasites. But given that none of the rest of you have symptoms it seems unlikely. And since this is your second DD, it sounds like you have transitioned young children from breast to this water before without a problem, correct? If she is always whiny/clingy, then she probably doesn't feel good. How does she sleep? I agree about going down to a diet of something like chicken broth and rice and then adding foods back in one at a time. Did you notice anything changing when you started solids (but before you weaned completely)?
 

[MAMom]

Have you been giving her probiotics & probiotic-rich foods multiple times per day?  The water quality and/or medication undoubtedly affected the level of probiotics in her gut and it sounds like her gut is suffering from that.   While she is healing you may have to do doses of probiotics that are much larger than the "suggested".   If she is dairy-sensitive, make sure to get a dairy-free probiotic.  I usually supplement my kids with 2-4 different kids brands with different bacterias to make sure they are getting a broad spectrum and give it at least 3x/day with stomach issues. There are many good kids brands, as kids don't have all the same gut bacterias as adults. In your DD's case, I might do them 5x/day for a good week or two as a start (I buy the powdered form and give it in apple sauce or little diluted orange juice) and see if that helps.  If it's making a difference, I would continue on with them - it may take quite a while to restore the balance.

I would add whatever other probiotic-rich foods you can get her to consume and really cut back, or cut out, sugars as much as you can (which will feed the bad bacterias) along with any whites - white flour, white rice, other refined grains, white sugar and any products made with or containing them.

As for the Nexium , that doesn't seem related to me.  You might want to look into digestive enzymes if after her gut is healed you really think there are digestive issues.  Lots of threads here on MDC with more info about digestive enzymes, but I know my body definitely does better with them.  For a little one, have the probiotic balance restored in her gut may be all it takes.  I'd definitely look into food allergies and/or sensitivities before dosing Nexium though.

For water going forward, a countertop filter like the Berkey (less expensive than plumbed-in filters) might filter enough to make your water safe for drinking at least.  Can your Dad test the water brands you are buying as well, especially if it is bottled in the same region where you live to ensure it is safe? 

[lookatreestar]

could you see and herbalist or TCM?

http://tcm.health-info.org/formulas/catagories/formulas-parasites.htm

from above website :

Indications: parasitic infestations with intermittent attacks of abdominal pain, indigestion, emaciation, loose stools, feverishness, foul smelling breath, dull complexion, large distended abdomen.

[eastkygal]

I haven't been able to get MDC to work since I uploaded Explorer 9.  Now using Google Chrome, so I thought I'd try to update.  I so appreciate your help on this issue.  I took my DD2 to a natural practitioner and she is on a herbal/vitamin regimen that seems to be working really well.  We'll be repeating some of the testing soon.  I also took her back to the specialist, which I don't think I'll be doing again.  She had lost enough weight that he wanted to prescribe her Periactin.  When I voiced some concern with it, he reacted by laughing and saying that it might not even work, but it could possibly help with cramps.  It's an antihistamine that says it should not be given to those under 4 years of age.  I'm beside myself.  He was with us all of 3 minutes before prescribing that medication.  

So, I am going to go with my natural practitioner's advice, which so far seems to be helping more than anything else we've tried.  She also gave DD2 some Bach Flowers to help with her emotional issues as result of this illness, and that seems to have helped as well.  I'm blessed and hopeful.  Now, if we can get us all passed this fever and cough thing that is going around, we'll be good. :)

[KimPM]

Thanks for the update.  Good to hear you've got something working.