Five year old - full course of abx, still has UTI

[NiteNicole]

It started last Thursday night.  She went to bed and wet the bed - which she nearly never does (maybe four times since she was 18 months old) BUT she had a smoothie right before bed (thanks, DH!) so I kind of expected it.  Pretty much all her night time accidents have been because someone let her have a big drink and then she was too sleepy to stay up or too tired (long day) to wake up in the night.

I don't think that's related although it may be the first time she can remember wetting the bed and it might have made her nervous.  She's very sensitive.

Every night since then there has been a meltdown at bed time - I need to go, I need to go, I need to go.  Over and over.  As soon as she's back in the bed, she needs to go again but...she doesn't go.  She does not hurt.  It does not burn.  She doesn't even complain that it's uncomfortable (I've had irritation issues where I have to go all.  the.  time. but can't and it's usually at least uncomfortable!).  No fever, no back pain.

This started at the same time we told her she'd need to stay quietly in her room until at LEAST 7 am.  Her room is across the hall from ours.  She has preferred to sleep in her bed for years now.  I sing to her, then she rolls over and she's out.  IF she wakes up in the night and calls me, I'll go in and if I fall asleep before she settles then I'll sleep in there.  She has this thing with keeping a million stuffed animals lined up at the edge of her bed and it's getting crowded.  My back hurts.  I'm tired.  She kicks.   I am happy to go in and settle her down, but I need to sleep in my own bed where I CAN SLEEP.  This little announcement brought on many, many tears and much misery.  Like I said, she's sensitive and nervous and she does not like change.

At the same time, I don't doubt that she thinks she needs to go.  I don't think she's faking for attention, even she says - why does it only happen at bedtime?

I have no idea what to do.  She's just come off of eight weeks of antibiotics (four different ones) for an ear infection that would NOT clear up.  The last of that was about two weeks ago.  I HATE getting hung up with more tests and more doctors if we can avoid it.  I love our ped but he loves to hand us off to a specialist and then there's testing and follow up and for heaven sake, I think at best it's nerves, at worst she might be a little irritated? 

IF it's not nerves, what could it be?  It started very suddenly, she has no other symptoms and unless she gets hung up thinking about it, it only happens at bedtime (today she made two one hour drives in the car without asking to stop, she's watched movies, played, etc.  It's only if she starts thinking about it that suddenly she has to go a million times).

[Marnica]

I think you have your answer -

You said yourself this started at the same time you made the choice to not sleep in her bed with her and let her know that she needs to stay in her room until 7am. So it really didn;t start suddenly at all. It cooincides with this major change for her.

It also seems to happen only at bedtime, because the change you are implementing in your household has to do with bedtime and sleeping in general. In the abcense of any other clinical symptoms of a UTI, (or anything else!) I would assume this is an adjustment issue.

I noticed when you posted this, it has only been 3 nights. Id give it some time and work on the issue at hand (her anxiety about not having you at her disposal in the night). I don't see what a pedi would do except subject her to tests to rule out an UTI.

[sapphire_chan]

If this persists after you work with her on getting your attention at night in other ways, I'd limit or reduce the amount of sugar, wheat, and dairy in her diet. It was worst when I was a kid, but even now I'll get times where I have an intense urge to pee when there're only a few drops of urine in my bladder. No discomfort, just the urgency. And I finally realized it was tied, for me, to grain (esp wheat) and sugar intake. I mention the dairy too because that's a common culprit.

If she's been on a ton of abx, yeast is also a strong possibility, so probiotics could help matters (could help stuff you don't even know is going on). I think you should do probiotics even if it has nothing to do with this issue, honestly.

Question, does staying quiet in her room until 7 mean she can't call to you if she needs you? And if it doesn't mean that, does SHE know she can still call to you when she needs you?

[NiteNicole]

First, the probiotics - we had been giving them daily and then ran out.  When I went to re-buy, they didn't have our brand.  Can you recommend a good brand that I could order online?  Trying to find a good brand locally has been hit and miss.

The thing is, most nights I do not end up sleeping in her bed...or she'll call around four and I'll finish out the night there.  If she wakes up alone in the morning, she never mentions it.  She knows can call me at any time and if I don't hear her, she can come to me (she has a night light, there's a light on in the hall, and our bed is right there she does not seem scared and doesn't mention being afraid).  She knows she can get up in the morning and go to the bathroom, get herself a toy or book, sit RIGHT in the doorway where she can SEE us...as long as she is just quiet. 

I think I underestimated just how much she hates even the idea of change. 

She has a follow up with the ENT tomorrow and her ped is in the same building.  We're going to go in.

We are pretty careful about sugar, she does get whole grains, but the only dairy she gets is yogurt (real yogurt) and the occasional string cheese but I'll start paying more attention.

[NiteNicole]

Originally Posted by NiteNicole 

First, the probiotics - we had been giving them daily and then ran out.  When I went to re-buy, they didn't have our brand.  Can you recommend a good brand that I could order online?  Trying to find a good brand locally has been hit and miss.

The thing is, most nights I do not end up sleeping in her bed...or she'll call around four and I'll finish out the night there.  If she wakes up alone in the morning, she never mentions it.  She knows can call me at any time and if I don't hear her, she can come to me (she has a night light, there's a light on in the hall, and our bed is right there she does not seem scared and doesn't mention being afraid).  She knows she can get up in the morning and go to the bathroom, get herself a toy or book, sit RIGHT in the doorway where she can SEE us...as long as she is just quiet and certainly if she needed something she can come get us.

I think I underestimated just how much she hates even the idea of change. 

She has a follow up with the ENT tomorrow and her ped is in the same building.  We're going to go in.

We are pretty careful about sugar, she does get whole grains, but the only dairy she gets is yogurt (real yogurt) and the occasional string cheese but I'll start paying more attention.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by NiteNicole 

First, the probiotics - we had been giving them daily and then ran out.  When I went to re-buy, they didn't have our brand.  Can you recommend a good brand that I could order online?  Trying to find a good brand locally has been hit and miss.

The thing is, most nights I do not end up sleeping in her bed...or she'll call around four and I'll finish out the night there.  If she wakes up alone in the morning, she never mentions it.  She knows can call me at any time and if I don't hear her, she can come to me (she has a night light, there's a light on in the hall, and our bed is right there she does not seem scared and doesn't mention being afraid).  She knows she can get up in the morning and go to the bathroom, get herself a toy or book, sit RIGHT in the doorway where she can SEE us...as long as she is just quiet. 

I think I underestimated just how much she hates even the idea of change. 

She has a follow up with the ENT tomorrow and her ped is in the same building.  We're going to go in.

We are pretty careful about sugar, she does get whole grains, but the only dairy she gets is yogurt (real yogurt) and the occasional string cheese but I'll start paying more attention.

Glad to hear you've already done some probiotics. I'm afraid I just use the sort they sell at GNC, which has seemed to make a difference for me, but isn't anything special.

Diet doesn't sound like it's going to be a factor, but do pay attention, just in cause, cause inflammation can come from a wide variety of foods. Remember also that fruit is sugar, I've been eating a lot of dates lately so that's at the forefront of my mind at the moment.

Your policies on her staying in her room and getting your attention seem reasonable to me.

 Yeah, I think you're right that it was just too big of a change for her.

Now, this might back fire on you, but with my 2.5 year old if we try changing things back, she starts getting mad about it not being the new way and will end up happy with the new way.

E.g. I'm holding her.

Dh takes her and she loses it "I want MOMMY!!!"

I come over and hold her too.

She pushes me away and is happy with dh holding her.

Not sure how you'd do the equivalent thing in  your situation. Maybe arrange that you come into her room before you go to bed?
 

[NiteNicole]

Welllll...we saw the ped today.  He says she does look red and irritated but the results of the urine test were inconclusive (possibly because they had about 3 drops to test) so we will hear more on that tomorrow.  No baths with soap, three 20 minute warm baths with baking soda - per day - till it clears up, when we actually bathe her, no soap till the end then stand her up to rinse her off, diaper cream if she will let us (she won't, trying to show her how to do it herself.  Going...about as well as you'd expect).  Same old stuff. 

Since she heard Dr. Wonderful (seriously, she loves this guy) say she's ok and the baths and probiotics will take care of it, she's pretty much convinced she's healed.  No problems at bedtime tonight.  REALLY hope that urine test comes back clear.

Now I need to find some totally unscented soap, shampoo, and conditioner for sensitive skin.  Cali Baby has some, but everyone seems to be out of stock for one or the other and I'd like to save on shipping and get them from the same place.  Off to see what I can find!
 

Thanks for all the advice! 

[NiteNicole]

She does have an infection.  Sigh.  More antibiotics.

[NiteNicole]

She has now been through the full course of abx.  She had terrible stomach problems the whole time - even with lots of yogurt, probx, and a careful diet.  This morning I used the AZO test strips and she's still positive for leukocytes, but nitrites (or nitrates, whatever).  She is having trouble walking (dystonia, right leg, we don't know the cause yet) so I kind of assumed she still had an infection as that tends to make things tough for her.  So I guess we're off to see the doctor again.  I never thought I'd be the mom always dragging the kid to the doc for every little thing - but I had no idea that nothing about my kid would be typical.

[es1967]

I didn't read every post so I am not sure if anyone mentioned D'mannose for the UTI.  I have used it and have suggested to numerous others.  Works great without antibiotics.

[allnaturalmom]

Ugh! Uti's are the worst... I must second the D-Mannose recommendation. Our dr recommended it for dd and it has been a lifesaver. I never go without any in the house. You can use it along with antibiotics. Keep her on a good probiotic. We use Natren's and can recommended them without reservation. Give it about 3 hours after each antibiotic dose and continue after full course of antibiotics is completed. Another thing our dr recommended for dd was to help strengthen her immune system by giving her cod liver oil every day. Also, no baths, just showers. And yes California baby Super Sensitive... we use it also. (You can get free shipping on it from diapers.com on orders over $49 and it ships w/in 2 days. We also buy it locally from Target - same price - $10/bottle.)

GL

HTH

Hugs to you and your dd. I wish your dd much healing.

ETA - We get the probiotics from Holly Hills: http://www.hollyhillhealth.com/shop/product_view.asp?id=9931&StoreID=FBKJ0ADCM5PE9NWHS5QG6WKHAH6PC4AD&private_product=0

It also comes in dairy free. I give half the adult dose to dds. You'll probably have to call them and inquire about the shipping. Depending on where you are, they will ship it with cold pack(s) to keep it cold.

Edited by allnaturalmom - 3/15/11 at 6:44am

[kjbrown92]

If she's positive for leukocytes but not nitrates, she might just have inflammation and the infection may be gone. Did they culture the urine last time to make sure that she was on the right antibiotic? Because that's very important and if she only gave 3 drops it's possible that they didn't. My dd2 gets frequent urination when she has some of her food intolerance triggers. And has anyone mentioned dairy as being a cause for ear infections? It is for a lot of people (yogurt included).

[NiteNicole]

They did do a culture last time.

The last ear infection was her first one in ages.  She's had maybe two before that one (one at ten weeks, another the year before, also when she was having seasonal allergy issues).  A few people (not her doctors) have mentioned food intolerance and ear infections/UTI but I hate to start eliminating stuff based on one ear infection and one UTI. 

I am trying to catch enough urine to do another test today but that is not easy with a five year old!

[Princess_Rainbow]

for ear infection i'd suggest no dairy and see a chiropractor, it should make a huge difference.

for the infection cranberry juice or cranberry in tablet form.

hope your daughter feels better soon!

[NiteNicole]

Thanks!

I did another test with the AZO strips this afternoon and both came back negative (the one for leukocytes MIGHT have been "trace amounts" but I really don't think so.  Certainly it wasn't positive).  I hope that means she's past it.