DP thinks we're rich, but not me. Help!

[maptome]

DP thinks that we are in awesome shape financially.  He thinks I nag him too much about spending "small" amounts of money.  He's constantly buying bikes, video games, computers, eating out with his friends, starbucks every day.

We are comfortable financially, but I feel like it's because I'm so frugal.  I'll go to two grocery stores to do our shopping to save $15, but then DP goes and spends it on lunch.  I'll shop at thrift stores for DD's toys, and he'll pre-order a video game shipped from japan for himself.  I find that frustrating.

We do have an "allowance" of $80/month each, but DP doesn't count eating lunch out, coffee, or vending machine as part of that because he "needs that for work." Is there a concrete or mathematical way to help us find common ground.  Like some kind of budget guide to show how much discretionary spending is okay, or is it all about agreeing to an allowance.

Again, the root of the problem is that DP thinks that we are rich, and I'm crazy.  The truth is probably somewhere between there.

[Annie Mac]

Have you tracked all the expenses and compared them to your income? Just to see exactly how much is going out in these little things? I don't think there's any blanket rule about how much income can be discretionary, it's entirely your comfort level and how it fits into your financial plan. I wonder if you could frame it in terms of something your DP really wants, like if you spend less on games, you could reduce your hours at work. Or whatever works for him. 

[kathymuggle]

I think having a discussion about common goals and how much you need to save to achieve them is key.  They can be short term (vacation) and long term (retirement, house buying).

I also think you need to have a discussion about how much money you need in savings to feel safe.

Some (most?) people need to have goals to save, saving for the sake out it does not do it for everyone.  

In our house we have a slightly opposite situation.  DH thinks we are poor and I know we are not.  We have a decent amount in savings, no unreasonable debt, and make Ok money.  The roots of this is our childhoods, and how our parents dealt with financial adversity. Our lack of oneness on this issue is not relevant at all, however, as we are pretty tight on working towards our goals.   

[mtm]

are you out of credit card debt? do you have savings? have you started saving for retirement? Is yes then I'd up his fun money to cover those kind of expenses. If not I'd talk to him about making sure that stuff is done first. Either way I'd chat in a non-confrontational way about how each of you views money and try to find some compromises/common ground.

[mamaofprincesses]

There's a financial advisor on another money forum who advocates living on 60% of your income. that's my goal, although it's not possible right now.

I'd write down your income, list all your expenses, add categories for savings, and then divide the rest up among the family members.

[maptome]

OP here. We live on about 40% of net income, including his spending stuff. No debt, just mortgage. Paid for cars with cash. We have plenty of savings. Like I said, we are financially comfortable. But I feel things can change easily...

Our main goal is to move into a nicer part of town that has the best public schools. So we will need to spend maybe $200k more than our current house is worth. That seems like a much larger mortgage. Also, we want another child, and to send them to college.

So, I guess I'm thinking about the long long term. Like we should live now, how we will need to live in the future...So, it's not about a percentage of salary saved or anything like that that makes me feel safe. I just like living frugally, and he does not (because he thinks he is rich).

I will discuss with him maybe a budget for work expense, like $50/month or something. That will probably make me feel better.

[JudiAU]

Ask for a compromise and an experiment. Raise his spending limit and ask him to live on it for the month. give hime $100 cash instead. Agree to surrender the debit and credit cards and/or to be responsible for the charges as part of his spend.

Odds are he really has no idea how much he spends.

[choli]

Originally Posted by maptome 

We do have an "allowance" of $80/month each, but DP doesn't count eating lunch out, coffee, or vending machine as part of that because he "needs that for work."

Does he really need that for work? Some jobs really do require a lot of schmoozing and networking, others do not.

If you are living on 40% of your income, it sounds to me like you are in good shape and perhaps should not sweat the small stuff so much.

[ItsBasilThyme]

I kinda get where you're coming from. DH hates having to think about small expenses, and has that mindset that once you make a certain income, you should stop sweating the small stuff. I've just had to realize that he values the convenience and freedom to make lots of little purchases, and that's okay. I value restricting those purchases in favor of bigger goals, and that's okay too.

Maybe one reason he's brushing you off is because your savings goals are vague? It sounds like you don't really have a set savings dollar amount or percentage in mind - you just don't want him to spend money that way because you think it's wasteful? I wouldnt be receptive to that approach either. If you're asking him to sacrifice something, then I think it would help to be clear about what the sacrifice is for, exactly. Maybe you could spend some real time thinking about why you feel so financially insecure, and what would make you feel better? Say, 12 months of liquid living expenses, 10% to 401k, 5% to each child's college fund, 10% to house savings? Something like that. If you're already saving 60% of your net, it should be pretty easy.

[NewBeginnings1]

Take it from someone who's husband wasn't on board, and now is. If you start talking about a financial program ( we now use the dave ramsey philosophy, which he spells out online for free), he could start resenting that someone else is giving you advice. He's the classic "free spirit", which drives a financially responsible person like you crazy. Free spirits won't sit down and create a budget, but they might get on board if you keep the meeting brief. 

First, on your own, analyze your budget. Do the math on how much he spends on lunch, coffee, and snack/year along with both of your other discretionary expenses. Next, think about your financial goals, but don't set anything in concrete. Then invite him to meet with you. Discuss with your longterm financial goals, then discuss the budget as a means of getting there. If you need to, express you concerns about overspending and the fear it causes you.

Best of luck.

[ilovemygirl]

Normally, I'm all for not wasting but if you have really budgeted and are absolutely positively sure that even with dh's splurges you are living on only 40% of your income - I would cut him some slack.

That's still leaving you 60% of the income to do with as you please which is way more than he is spending. I don't know if it will help you to look at it that way but 60% for you to save and 5% for him to waste seems like an awesome deal to me  ;)

[kathymuggle]

I would not use the "rich" word in any discussion with DH - as it is bound to close down the discussion from his end.

If you are living on 40% of your income, and contemplating a move to house that will cost $200,000 more than your current house - you gotta know you are wealthy.

If you start with "do not spend that way!  We are not rich", he is going to close down because he does not agree with the basic premise (that you are not rich) and this belief is not going to change given your stats.....

You will be much better off having and talking about specific goals for specific items.

[choli]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I would not use the "rich" word in any discussion with DH - as it is bound to close down the discussion from his end.

If you are living on 40% of your income, and contemplating a move to house that will cost $200,000 more than your current house - you gotta know you are wealthy.

If you start with "do not spend that way!  We are not rich", he is going to close down because he does not agree with the basic premise (that you are not rich) and this belief is not going to change given your stats.....

You will be much better off having and talking about specific goals for specific items.

No kidding. If we were living on 40% of our income, INCLUDING my lunches and coffee, I would not be at all receptive to idea that I was breaking the budget.
 

[happysmileylady]

Do you guys discuss your budget together at all?  Honestly, from what I am reading from the OP, it sounds to me he has little to no idea where the money is going at all each month.  It seems like he doesn't know what you are trying to save or why or how much you have to save to get there, nor does it sound like he really gets where the money not being saved is going.

Now, when you say "live off of 40% of your net income" does that mean you are putting 60% of your net income in savings and then EVERYTHING else comes out of that 40%?  Or do you mean your mortgage is 60% of your net, and then 40% covers all the rest of your bills?

[doubledutch]

Originally Posted by maptome 

OP here. We live on about 40% of net income, including his spending stuff. No debt, just mortgage. Paid for cars with cash. We have plenty of savings. Like I said, we are financially comfortable. But I feel things can change easily...

Our main goal is to move into a nicer part of town that has the best public schools. So we will need to spend maybe $200k more than our current house is worth. That seems like a much larger mortgage. Also, we want another child, and to send them to college.

So, I guess I'm thinking about the long long term. Like we should live now, how we will need to live in the future...So, it's not about a percentage of salary saved or anything like that that makes me feel safe. I just like living frugally, and he does not (because he thinks he is rich).

I will discuss with him maybe a budget for work expense, like $50/month or something. That will probably make me feel better.

i like the idea of "we should live now, how we will need to live in the future."  what if you create that "future" budget that allows for that mortgage payment (easy to estimate what it would be, just google "mortgage calculator"), double your current child-related expenses, and whatever you believe you should be contributing to two kids' college funds each month.  keep everything else approximately the same - not what you want it to be.  include what he actually spends each month on lunches, dinners, vending machine and starbucks, video games, and his other discretionary spending.  you could also include any other spending you anticipate in the future, like kid activities, more frequent babysitters and other date night expenses, whatever.  run that budget and see if you are still okay on your current income even with the additional costs and even with dh's current spending rate.  i bet you are just fine.
 

[Drummer's Wife]

My DH (and myself) spend money on things like going out to eat - he eats out for lunch every single day - and on random crap we really don't need.  However, we certainly don't live on only 40% of our income, so I have to say in your case, it sounds like you truly can afford for him to continue with that lifestyle, no? 

Otherwise, I like the idea of sitting down with him and and going over your budget and savings goals, so he can see where you all are at. 

[weliveintheforest]

I have a similar issue with my husband, but we are not financially comfortable.  I resent when I work really hard to be frugal and then he just buys what he likes.  Would you like to spend more than you do, or are you happy with how frugal you currently are?  What would have to change for you to feel comfortable with spending more money?

Even if you can technically afford for him to be eating lunch out, it's probably a good idea to sit down and really talk about where your money is going and what your specific goals are.  Maybe you can make some compromises so you feel heard and he doesn't feel too restricted.

[choli]

It's good to plan for the future, but it's also important to enjoy the present. Since it seems you can easily afford some simple pleasures like lunch with friends and cofee, I would enjoy them instead of stressing about them.

[Poddi]

It sounds like you guys have been doing well financially.  Maybe it's OK to give yourself and DH a "raise" on spending money?  DH and I each have $150 a month to spend on whatever we want, and I'm sure we don't make as much as you guys do.  If socializing IS important for his work then maybe have a separate budget for that too?  I actually always encourage DH to go out for lunch with his co-workers.  He doesn't like to socialize and I urge him to go once a week.