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Should vaccinated have right to sue unvaccinated? - Page 9

post #161 of 360



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post




I really get irritated that people on this board who choose not to vax are under the impression that all of us who DO vax think that vaxes are 100% safe and 100% effective - thats NOT true.  We have done the reasearch that you have, and come to the opposite conclusion.  That may not be true of everyone who vaxes, but it is true of at least some of us.

 



I wasn't saying the research wasn't done.  I'm sorry if I offended you but that was not my intention. You took my post way to personal, as I was just speaking on the premise of the original post regarding the ability to sue nonvaxers. I'm glad to hear reserarch was done because I don't think enough parents actually do the research before coming to a decision.

 

All I was saying was that there is no ground to sue if those who vaccinate don't believe the vaccines are 100% effective to begin with. That means there is not 100% confidence in them to begin with.  Either way, all of us are taking a risk, those who vaccinate and those who do not, so it's not fair to be able to sue either party.  Most of those that chose not to vaccinate don't believe in vaccinating and believe in holistic approaches and the ability of the immune system and believe they are doing the right thing by not subjecting their children to accumulation of toxins that no one knows the long-term effects of.  Like I said, I didn't read the article, but I can certainly assume the article is assuming all of those who chose to not vaccinate are being neglectful when it's quite the opposite.  I don't believe that anyone should look at others in a bad light for any decision they have made that they believe is the best for their family, and that goes both ways.  

 

When it comes down to it, in terms regarding this original post, and being fair to both parties, if those who vaccinate have the ability to sue, than those who don't vaccinate should also have the ability to sue for the shedding factor.  If a nonvaccinated child is in contact with a vaccinated child who just had a vaccine that sheds, that unvaccinated child can contract that illness that he/she would not otherwise be in contact with.

 

Also, I truly dislike this "war" of vaccinators vs. non-vaccinators.  Why does it have to be like that? I mean, we're all just parents living in the same world, researching and making choices that we all feel is best for our family, so why do we have to degrade those who make different choices than we do?  I mean, seriously.   There is enough going on in this world that we have to stick together and not judge others for their own personal/religious/moral beliefs and place blame on each other.  Safer vaccines should be demanded, and at the same time, people should be respected for the educated decisions they make based on the research they have done because, let's face it, the hard, true fact is that vaccines are not safe, and the pharmaceutical companies are getting away with murder because not enough people are fighting back!

 


Edited by SilverMoon010 - 3/21/11 at 6:22am
post #162 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayaMama View Post
i can't be the only busy person whose child isn't up to date. though to be fair, we will not be doing everything and i did plan to delay.

 

I am guessing it would be a matter of priorities. If there were a measles outbreak in your community, you would probably make sure you went in for the vax.... 

 

You know I admire you rather a lot, so am not taking issue with you per say.

post #163 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I am not sure why anyone is confused.....

 

If a CPS services case is brought against you for any reason, and it becomes known you have avoided WBV, that could become part of their evidence against you......

 

 Thank you, Kathy. :)
 

 

post #164 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandy F View Post

Also, I truly dislike this "war" of vaccinators vs. non-vaccinators.  Why does it have to be like that? I mean, we're all just parents living in the same world, researching and making choices that we all feel is best for our family, so why do we have to degrade those who make different choices than we do? 


I think of most parenting decisions as live and let live.  Your body, your choice.  Your kid, well, within reason, your choice.

 

But deciding not to vaccinate your child has a negative effect on our community, our society, and more specifically, on my children.  So when parents make decisions that endanger other people, it's hard for me to just consider this a harmless difference of opinion.  

 

When I say that anti-vaxxers do not understand the science, I'm not trying to be mean or degrade anyone.  They subscribe to an anti-medical, anti-science, magical thinking world view.  And it comes from, at the core, not understanding the science behind medicine.  


 

 

post #165 of 360

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFortune View Post




I think of most parenting decisions as live and let live.  Your body, your choice.  Your kid, well, within reason, your choice.

 

But deciding not to vaccinate your child has a negative effect on our community, our society, and more specifically, on my children.  So when parents make decisions that endanger other people, it's hard for me to just consider this a harmless difference of opinion.  

 

When I say that anti-vaxxers do not understand the science, I'm not trying to be mean or degrade anyone.  They subscribe to an anti-medical, anti-science, magical thinking world view.  And it comes from, at the core, not understanding the science behind medicine.  


 

 



So I guess you're one of those who think the vaccinated should be able to sue the unvaccinated then, huh? The marketing campaigns consisting of striking fear into everyone to get their vaccines is certainly working on you, isn't it? 

 

I really didn't want to go here, but I find this pretty sad.  If you can't respect parents who chose not to inject their children with poisonous toxins that accumulate over time and does not allow the body to work naturally and has no idea what the long-term effects are, for things that a healthy child can get through, then that is just so sad and I feel bad for you.You obviously do not have an open mind.  Forget science. How about we try common sense.  I'm not anti-science.  I'm anti-poisonous toxins.  You're way too wrapped up in science, sorry to say.  Science has proven to fail and backfire many, many, many times (with vaccines), so keep that in mind when you're dreaming about your wonderful world of "science."  I have much more faith in the works of the human body versus the works of vaccines and artificial immunity.

 

Since you keep mentioning science, let's talk about science...Do you know how the vaccines work versus how the normal defenses of the body work, where vaccines bypass the first line of defense of the body directly into the bloodstream, causing a "shock/surprise" to the body unnaturally many times over with different viruses at the same time, making the body work double time in a small amount of time, in which the body is not able to expel all of the toxins since it did not go through the normal process of defense naturally? Possible contribution to the increase in autoimmune disorders?  Probably.  Do you know vaccine viruses are cultured on human and animal tissue such as monkey kidney and human fetal cells and then injected into the bloodstream with those foreign tissues?   If you knew all of this (and more), I think your argument would be a bit diffferen   Heck,   Heck.  HEck.  n.   t. 

 

Oh, and about my decision having a negative effect on your children, please! My child has never been sick to this day! He has a wonderful immune system because I work on building it with whole foods, foods without hormones, pesticides, vitamin D, etc, etc.  I'm more worried about your decision to vaccinate and passing live viruses to my family artificially, so let's just call it even, k? 

 

(Please forgive the above strange letters saying "Heck." I'm having issues editing my post and everything is sticking.) 

   


Edited by SilverMoon010 - 3/23/11 at 6:46am
post #166 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFortune View Post

 

When I say that anti-vaxxers do not understand the science, I'm not trying to be mean or degrade anyone.  They subscribe to an anti-medical, anti-science, magical thinking world view.  And it comes from, at the core, not understanding the science behind medicine.  


 

 


Magical thinking world view? Anit-medical, anti-science?  I'll tell ya what.  Next time my kid breaks a bone, I WON'T be at home with my bunny and top hat. 

 

post #167 of 360

biglaugh.gif

 

So do you think that an ND who attended 4 years of school and additional post graduate training in natural medicine does not understand science or the human body? Don't answer that - I already know!

 

Everyone is obviously free to maintain any opinion they wish, but to label parents that make a different choice than you as antiscience, magical thinkers, and obviously less smart than you are is B______T (fill in the blanks). I also suggest you reread the forum guidelines.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFortune View Post




I think of most parenting decisions as live and let live.  Your body, your choice.  Your kid, well, within reason, your choice.

 

But deciding not to vaccinate your child has a negative effect on our community, our society, and more specifically, on my children.  So when parents make decisions that endanger other people, it's hard for me to just consider this a harmless difference of opinion.  

 

When I say that anti-vaxxers do not understand the science, I'm not trying to be mean or degrade anyone.  They subscribe to an anti-medical, anti-science, magical thinking world view.  And it comes from, at the core, not understanding the science behind medicine.  


 

 



 

post #168 of 360

HOW many times has the FDA fully approved a PRESCRIPTION DRUG (yes that's what a vax is) and then after years of it being on the market having to take it off the market for a host of different problems?

 

I don't want my kid taking any drugs personally. I do not trust the prescription companies one bit. Look at all the kids who have died or had horrible reaction to different drugs...What about all the 2 y/o on psych meds? The Dr said he needed them though right? The FDA approved it, and now he is a lifelong customer. You don't think vaccines were made for profit just like child antidepressants, or psychotics?

 

Of course they were. Last time I checked prescription drug companies weren't really concerned with "the greater good" but rather how much money they can make and for how long. They TRY to invent drugs that will need to be used life-long for more profit. Why do you think there are so many more vaccines now? boosters? even more vaccines being invented? PROFIT solely PROFIT.

 

post #169 of 360

Well, I think everyone has jumped on you about this already, but seriously, please do re-read your statement and try to understand why it's offensive.

 

My degree is in biology, and I spent a few years working for Mayo Clinic in a field most people never even heard of.  You're assumption that non-vaxxers are a bunch of ignorant fools, who know nothing of science, relying on "magic" is really insulting.  Please don't underestimate the intelligence of another person, and their capacity to reason and research things out. 

 

Your '''science" also says a certain amount of death and harm caused by vaccines is statistically acceptable.  It's just statistics, right?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFortune View Post


 

But deciding not to vaccinate your child has a negative effect on our community, our society, and more specifically, on my children.  So when parents make decisions that endanger other people, it's hard for me to just consider this a harmless difference of opinion.  

 

When I say that anti-vaxxers do not understand the science, I'm not trying to be mean or degrade anyone.  They subscribe to an anti-medical, anti-science, magical thinking world view.  And it comes from, at the core, not understanding the science behind medicine.  

 



 

post #170 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosurreal09 View Post

HOW many times has the FDA fully approved a PRESCRIPTION DRUG (yes that's what a vax is) and then after years of it being on the market having to take it off the market for a host of different problems?

 

I don't want my kid taking any drugs personally. I do not trust the prescription companies one bit. Look at all the kids who have died or had horrible reaction to different drugs...What about all the 2 y/o on psych meds? The Dr said he needed them though right? The FDA approved it, and now he is a lifelong customer. You don't think vaccines were made for profit just like child antidepressants, or psychotics?

 

Of course they were. Last time I checked prescription drug companies weren't really concerned with "the greater good" but rather how much money they can make and for how long. They TRY to invent drugs that will need to be used life-long for more profit. Why do you think there are so many more vaccines now? boosters? even more vaccines being invented? PROFIT solely PROFIT.

 



I have to say, I've worked in childcare quite a bit and come across many, many children and I have yet to see a 2 year old on psychiatric medications. Not sayin' it has NEVER happened, but in the hundreds of two year olds I've worked with, I've never seen it. Do you know any personally?

post #171 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFortune View Post




I think of most parenting decisions as live and let live.  Your body, your choice.  Your kid, well, within reason, your choice.

 

But deciding not to vaccinate your child has a negative effect on our community, our society, and more specifically, on my children.  So when parents make decisions that endanger other people, it's hard for me to just consider this a harmless difference of opinion.  

 

When I say that anti-vaxxers do not understand the science, I'm not trying to be mean or degrade anyone.  They subscribe to an anti-medical, anti-science, magical thinking world view.  And it comes from, at the core, not understanding the science behind medicine.  


 

 

That's not true at all.  It's interesting though, that that's how you see it.  I'm an Atheist...no magic thinking here.  My son had heart surgery not long ago...can't say that I'm anti-medical or anti-science.  I have a friend who's a doctor and they don't vaccinate. I know Christians and Pagans who vaccinate their children.  I'm not sure what pushes people towards one way or the other when it comes to vaccines, but your assumptions aren't what I've seen. 

 

 

post #172 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFortune View Post

 

But deciding not to vaccinate your child has a negative effect on our community, our society, and more specifically, on my children.  So when parents make decisions that endanger other people, it's hard for me to just consider this a harmless difference of opinion.  

 

 


 

This is an argument that I hear and have read quite often and it’s disingenuous, my response is that every.single.minute of the day there is some person who is making a decision that someone believes has a negative effect on the community, society and children.

People who choose to not to vaccinate are not breaking any laws, we just happen to be in the minority making decisions that are contrary to the majority – we are essentially dissenters. There was a wonderful article in the July/August 2010 edition of Ode on why society needs dissenters to move forward and create meaningful change.

You have chosen to vaccinate based on YOUR personal morals, beliefs and values and that is your right. Those same rights apply to those of us who choose not to vaccinate.

What I find disheartening is your blanket statement below making the ASSUMPTION about parents who do not vaccinate are not making educated and informed decisions, and that we are subscribing to what you call a “magical thinking world view”. Frankly, I find that statement disrespectful and degrading, and honestly it has no place in civil discourse and it brings no value to the discussion at hand.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFortune View Post

 

When I say that anti-vaxxers do not understand the science, I'm not trying to be mean or degrade anyone.  They subscribe to an anti-medical, anti-science, magical thinking world view.  And it comes from, at the core, not understanding the science behind medicine.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #173 of 360

A couple of people have already remarked on your comment, and your position.

 

I obviously know nothing about you. Or *why* this is such a sensitive topic for you. ( I mean this in the sense that most everyone has a personal reason why they make the claims that they do. Usually based on personal experience. It is a sensitive topic for pretty much every parent).

 

However, whatever your personal reasons are for believing that parents who choose not to vaccinate are about the most dangerous members of society. Whatever those reasons are, you seem to be ignoring the group of parents who choose to forgo or delay vaccines based on valid concerns. Concerns no one has the answers for today.

 

It's not a true statement that a parent who has not vaccinated is anti science and anti medicine with a magical thinking worldview.  I am sure there are such people to be found. However it does not characterise every parent who chooses not the follow the CDC schedule. It is so easy to find one person who fits a stereotype and dismiss the entire group on the handy stereotype. This goes both ways.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFortune View Post




I think of most parenting decisions as live and let live.  Your body, your choice.  Your kid, well, within reason, your choice.

 

But deciding not to vaccinate your child has a negative effect on our community, our society, and more specifically, on my children.  So when parents make decisions that endanger other people, it's hard for me to just consider this a harmless difference of opinion.  

 

When I say that anti-vaxxers do not understand the science, I'm not trying to be mean or degrade anyone.  They subscribe to an anti-medical, anti-science, magical thinking world view.  And it comes from, at the core, not understanding the science behind medicine.  


 

 


 

 

post #174 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFortune View Post




I think of most parenting decisions as live and let live.  Your body, your choice.  Your kid, well, within reason, your choice.

 

But deciding not to vaccinate your child has a negative effect on our community, our society, and more specifically, on my children.  So when parents make decisions that endanger other people, it's hard for me to just consider this a harmless difference of opinion.  

 

When I say that anti-vaxxers do not understand the science, I'm not trying to be mean or degrade anyone.  They subscribe to an anti-medical, anti-science, magical thinking world view.  And it comes from, at the core, not understanding the science behind medicine.  


 

 

You don't think this statement is degrading?????  What, then, do you find degrading???

 

Guess what, sunshine?  I am anti-vax, and I do not subscribe to ANY view.  I make my own decisions.  I do the research.  I am NOT anti-medicine or anti-science.  I am an educated (in the field of science for that matter!) mom who is doing what I feel is best for my kids.  So do NOT label me.  Believe me, honey, I can bet I understand the science behind the medicine a hell of a lot better than you do.  And magical?  Puh-leeze!  I find your post to be EXTREMELY inappropriate.
 

 

post #175 of 360

This is way OT but yes I know 5. One died at just 2 y/o. and they were a relative. I also know 3 more who were on them by age 8. Two family members under 10 are currently on them.

 

I know 4 other people who died on these types of meds. One was my mother. Another one of my best friends.

 

edited b/c what I originally posted was way too OT and way to personal.


Edited by sosurreal09 - 3/23/11 at 6:30pm
post #176 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosurreal09 View Post

HOW many times has the FDA fully approved a PRESCRIPTION DRUG (yes that's what a vax is) and then after years of it being on the market having to take it off the market for a host of different problems?

 

I don't want my kid taking any drugs personally. I do not trust the prescription companies one bit. Look at all the kids who have died or had horrible reaction to different drugs...What about all the 2 y/o on psych meds? The Dr said he needed them though right? The FDA approved it, and now he is a lifelong customer. You don't think vaccines were made for profit just like child antidepressants, or psychotics?

 

Of course they were. Last time I checked prescription drug companies weren't really concerned with "the greater good" but rather how much money they can make and for how long. They TRY to invent drugs that will need to be used life-long for more profit. Why do you think there are so many more vaccines now? boosters? even more vaccines being invented? PROFIT solely PROFIT.

 


 

It is true that anti-psychotics are being prescribed at times for very young children. However, the FDA has NOT approved the drugs for this.  They are not FDA approved for children at all.  They are being used off-label by the doctors.  

 

post #177 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post




 

It is true that anti-psychotics are being prescribed at times for very young children. However, the FDA has NOT approved the drugs for this.  They are not FDA approved for children at all.  They are being used off-label by the doctors.  

 


 

Well at least the FDA is not backing it up, but I thought the FDA had to approve a drug before they could take it?

 

If it's true then I retract my statement about the FDA approving it. Although I have read about them being created specifically for children now (new drugs)...

post #178 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosurreal09 View Post




 

Well at least the FDA is not backing it up, but I thought the FDA had to approve a drug before they could take it?

 

If it's true then I retract my statement about the FDA approving it. Although I have read about them being created specifically for children now (new drugs)...

 

The FDA has to approve a drug before it can hit the market.  However, they only approve it for certain indications.  Once it is on the market, a doctor can prescribe it however he/she wants to- it's called off-label prescribing.  
 

 

post #179 of 360


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ema-adama View Post



I am guessing it would be a matter of priorities. If there were a measles outbreak in your community, you would probably make sure you went in for the vax.... 

 

You know I admire you rather a lot, so am not taking issue with you per say.


 

that's true. i respect you too much to think that you'd be taking issue with me either. love.gif

 

it was a very anecdotal type of response! biglaugh.gif

 

post #180 of 360

Of those that are fully vaccinated, 10% will not take to them. Are you going to sue those people too? I need to compromise my child to make you feel better?  There are outbreaks and even those who are vaccinated get sick so the herd immunity argument goes right out the window.

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