or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Baby › Baby Health › Vaccinations › Should vaccinated have right to sue unvaccinated?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Should vaccinated have right to sue unvaccinated? - Page 13

post #241 of 360

.


Edited by member234098 - 6/10/12 at 4:31pm
post #242 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonttu View Post


It is beyond me , how anyone claiming to love their family would deny them one of the greatest achievements ever made in medical history , prevention of disease , whicgh is what vaccinations basically are . 

 

 

 

Aww, come on, now you're just causing trouble!

 

post #243 of 360

Aww come on, now you're just casing trouble!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonttu View Post


It is beyond me , how anyone claiming to love their family would deny them one of the greatest achievements ever made in medical history , prevention of disease , whicgh is what vaccinations basically are . 

post #244 of 360

Well , no , that is just my very own personal opinion . I would normally never force anyone else to do something , simply because I feel , it´s the right thing to do . I just saw , what grief it has caused my family back then and still to this day , whenever someone talks about it , especially , since it was something , that was so easily preventable .

And I do believe , everyone should have the freedom to choose their own happiness .

The only problem with vaccines is , that , if you don´t get them , you are at a much higher risk of contracting an illness and spreading it among others , who have not been vaccinated yet , due to their young age , like babies or people , who have a weak immune system .

And IN MY OPINION , that is where personal freedom ends . Of course , vaccines are not perfect , and they carry a small risk , but if used appropriately , then the risk is extremely small , even if you would get the disease , you´ve been immunized against , because of the shot , since usually the sickness is in a much milder form with a lot less side effects than the "natural" one .

Plus , if you had the shot , you know , if you get sick , why !

And that is a also a great benefit , when it comes to treatment . When my youngest daughter was vaccinated against chicken pox at age 1 , she developed a slight fever after a few days and she had a few little blisters , but after 3 days , she was fine and now she has strong immunity against it (which was proven by a blood test) , so that beats getting it the normal way and suffering through it any day .  

@Miriam , no of course not , but the problem was , that he was NOT immunized , so he got the full force of it and all the side effects , like meningitis , and he died .

So , if he would have been immunized , even if the protection would not have been 100% , chances are extremely high , that he would most likely still be alive

And that is why I always have my immunizations up to date !

post #245 of 360

sorry, double post.

post #246 of 360

.


Edited by member234098 - 6/10/12 at 4:30pm
post #247 of 360

That is why we freshen them up every 8-10 years .

post #248 of 360

.


Edited by member234098 - 6/10/12 at 4:28pm
post #249 of 360

I have to say as a 5 year old I got chicken pox and loved it. My sister and I got it together. We stayed home with our favorite babysitter and had a blast. We got to stay up late every night and built a lincoln log village complete with a play ground :)

 

I agree that no one should intentionally spread germs and disease but I believe it is very rare that anyone intentionally does so.

 

Even with our best efforts we will be exposed to germs and disease it is part of life and is up to the individual to do what they think is best to protect themselves and their families. Be that diet, exercise, air purifying systems, vitamins, hygiene, hand sanitizer, vaccines or condoms. The only person you have control over is yourself and your family (depending on the age).

 

 

post #250 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonttu View Post

My cousin died of measles , when he was 13 years old . Yes , there is a risk of getting a vaccine-related illness or health problem , but compared to the risk of going through the disease by "naturally" catching it , that risk is really small .

Plus , there are many diseases , that have no cure to this day , like tetanus or polio .

It is beyond me , how anyone claiming to love their family would deny them one of the greatest achievements ever made in medical history , prevention of disease , whicgh is what vaccinations basically are . 

All 5 of my kids were immunized from the start , I always made sure they had no fever or runny nose or were feeling "off" that day , and they never had any problems .

Plus , I have never met healthier , more robust kids than mine .

Colds and flus at our house are virtually unheard of and we have no allergies whatsoever .

And if some bug is going around at school , that flattens everyone else for days or weeks , if one of mine even catches it , he/she bounces back after maybe a day or two .

Plus , if somebody would intentionally expose my newborn baby to a contagious disease , for me that is assault and I would have their head for that . It cannot be , that somebody´s freedom is causing another person pain .

Freedom ends , where someone else gets hurt . 

 

 


There are many reasons people don't vaccinate.  For instance, it is more protective to a newborn of a mother who has natural immunity.  Studies show that there is now reduced immunity to things like measles because vaccines don't confer anywhere near the protection of natural immunity to the baby from the mother.  Due to this, babies are getting measles when it used to be a very rare disease in babies.  The risks of the diseases are much higher in the vulnerable.  As far as I'm concerned, not only am I, by not being vaccinated, protecting my newborns more effectively, but I am protecting my grandchildren more effectively.  

 

Not only that, but exposure to measles in childhood has shown definite protective effects from atopic diseases like psoriasis and also degenerative diseases.  

 

36 children under the age of 5 died in the United States alone in 2009 from vaccinations.  Considering only 1 to 10% are reported, that makes a lot of deaths from these "safe" injections.  That does not include the older kids getting vaccines, such as the 85 deaths from Gardasil.  Compare that to the ZERO deaths from VPD.  Of course, there is the list of harm from the diseases vs harm from the vaccines this year alone.

 

No one can effectively argue for vaccines with such statistics.  The only way they can is to say that death from the diseases is more prevalent than death from the vaccines.  What that obviously overlooks is the fact that the diseases only come around every five years or so.  So every year, kids die and are maimed from vaccines, yet the diseases themselves only come around every 5+ years.  They also tie in "third world" measles to the statistics, to keep the disease looking very alive... they will tell you millions of kids get measles, and thousands die.  Failing to mention that NO children are dying in the United States and various other western countries.  

 

That's exacltly like telling you you should take quinine because malaria kills hundreds of thousands of people a year.  

 

It is manipulation of the data, and irrelevant to our society.  That's exactly what vaccination is to me... as ridiculous as giving my kids quinine for malaria because 100000 kids die from it. 

 

 

So I could just as easily say I don't understand how people who "claim" to love their children could put their newborns and their children's newborns at such risk, since death is much higher in babies now, thanks to vaccination, as are degenerative diseases for nary a benefit ... but luckily for you, I wouldn't make such a sweeping statement wrapped in such a cheap shot.

 

Edited to remove link as only partial data was included.  


Edited by Calm - 4/7/11 at 5:29pm
post #251 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm View Post



 



36 children under the age of 5 died in the United States alone in 2009 from vaccinations.  Considering only 1 to 10% are reported, that makes a lot of deaths from these "safe" injections.  That does not include the older kids getting vaccines, such as the 85 deaths from Gardasil.  Compare that to the ZERO deaths from VPD.  Of course, there is the list of harm from the diseases vs harm from the vaccines this year alone.

 

No one can effectively argue for vaccines with such statistics. 

 

The link only goes up to 2008. Doesn't mean there were 0 deaths, but rather the figures won't be available until the 12th edition is published this month.
 

 

 

post #252 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post





It's not about who is vaxed vs. who is NOT vaxed.  It's about INTENTIONALLY exposing others to a disease that you KNOW your child was exposed to.

 

I'm pretty sure you're in the minority of never been sick but are immune.  And remember, immunity doesn't last forever so you should get those titers more often to make sure you're still immune.

There is lifelong immunity from some diseases and not always from others.  Measles is lifelong, for instance.  I am in the minority only because not being vaccinated is a minority.  If we could do some decent studies on the unvaxed, we'd shed some more light on this.  Before vax in the 1960's it wasn't rare to miss getting the diseases.  Minority, perhaps, (but not proven), but definitely not rare.  

 

 


Edited by Calm - 4/7/11 at 4:29pm
post #253 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugs View Post



The link only goes up to 2008. Doesn't mean there were 0 deaths, but rather the figures won't be available until the 12th edition is published this month.
 

 

 


You can do what I did, and research further.  There were zero deaths.  If you find evidence to the contrary, let me know and I'll correct.  However, even if you do, you'll find they are much less than deaths from vaccination... and that is essentially my point.

 

post #254 of 360

headscratch.gif So, why post the link in the first place if it doesn't support your statement? I'd love to research further; please direct me to where I can find stats for deaths from vaccinations and deaths from VPDs for 2009. Or I'll just have to wait patiently for the 12th edition.

post #255 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugs View Post

headscratch.gif So, why post the link in the first place if it doesn't support your statement? I'd love to research further; please direct me to where I can find stats for deaths from vaccinations and deaths from VPDs for 2009. Or I'll just have to wait patiently for the 12th edition.


Statistics are searchable.  Don't get so caught up in the link that you overlook the shocking and little known statistics of vaccine deaths vs VPD deaths in the United States.  My link, as it was incomplete data, only skewed my point so I've removed it.  From all my searches, I cannot find any deaths from any of the diseases, although I'm open to the idea there was one.  There are deaths from vaccines however, every year... Deaths and great harm.  

 

 

post #256 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm View Post


A wild dog, unless killed, will live free of disease, even old age cannot touch it with arthritis etc.  A domesticated dog is subject to SO many diseases we take is as a given and they also get "vaccination".  And then when they get old, they are basically blinded and crippled.  Then some clever people compared the healthy to the sick, and studied the healthy dogs (a much better approach than studying the sick)... and found that they eat raw meaty bones.  Wild dogs don't eat canned or dry food, they eat wild raw food.  So they now have the guide dogs on raw food and vets are starting to recommend raw diets globally, and domesticated animals then don't get sick... WOW!  Whoodathunkit?

 

 

Really?  Wild dogs NEVER get sick?  Sorry, thats not true.  And humans also get sick even when living in natural chemical free environments.  Wild animals hunt the sickly animals, so they aren't alive for very long b/c they become prey for the healthy animals.  Humans also get sick - yes, even when eating entirely raw foods.  I think this argument for all natural is FAR too simplified, and far to general.  Humans and animals don't stay healthy just b/c they eat raw - and people have been cooking food since forever ago - you know, with that thing called Fire!
 

 

post #257 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugs View Post

headscratch.gif So, why post the link in the first place if it doesn't support your statement? I'd love to research further; please direct me to where I can find stats for deaths from vaccinations and deaths from VPDs for 2009. Or I'll just have to wait patiently for the 12th edition.



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm View Post




Statistics are searchable.  Don't get so caught up in the link that you overlook the shocking and little known statistics of vaccine deaths vs VPD deaths in the United States.  My link, as it was incomplete data, only skewed my point so I've removed it.  From all my searches, I cannot find any deaths from any of the diseases, although I'm open to the idea there was one.  There are deaths from vaccines however, every year... Deaths and great harm.  

 

 



I'll take that as a "No"

 

post #258 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post



 

Really?  Wild dogs NEVER get sick?  Sorry, thats not true.  And humans also get sick even when living in natural chemical free environments.  Wild animals hunt the sickly animals, so they aren't alive for very long b/c they become prey for the healthy animals.  Humans also get sick - yes, even when eating entirely raw foods.  I think this argument for all natural is FAR too simplified, and far to general.  Humans and animals don't stay healthy just b/c they eat raw - and people have been cooking food since forever ago - you know, with that thing called Fire!
 

 


I deleted that part of my post because I didn't want to be told it was too off topic.  I no longer can follow exactly what is topical really, it seems a fine line.  However, for the bolded part, I ask: please show the evidence to support that statement.  Because there are no known cultures who eat raw foods, only isolated individuals.  Of those individuals, your statement does not hold.  Edited to add a caveat: I am talking about someone who has been raw for some years, and who eats plenty of greens... basically eats like a frugivore.  There are variations of a raw diet, and I've no doubt some get sick even on certain types of raw.  My point, since it is again not seen, is that there is an ideal diet, and even if no one knows what it is, the equation holds that if one person can be vitally healthy and resist all disease, then ALL humans can.  It only takes one example to prove it is possible.

 

I also did not say wild dogs never got sick.  The diseases the domesticated dogs suffer from are not suffered by wild dogs.  They do get injured... but as far as cancer and all those things, they just don't get them.  

post #259 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugs View Post





 





I'll take that as a "No"

 


Take is as a, "got too much on this morning to lose myself on the computer so I'll come back tonight (Oz time) and do your research for you; thanks for your patience".  duck.gif

 

 

 

post #260 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm View Post

 the equation holds that if one person can be vitally healthy and resist all disease, then ALL humans can.  It only takes one example to prove it is possible.

 

I also did not say wild dogs never got sick.  The diseases the domesticated dogs suffer from are not suffered by wild dogs.  They do get injured... but as far as cancer and all those things, they just don't get them.  



Yes, b/c its entirely possible for ALL people to ALWAYS be 100% healthy.  Sorry, thats just not the case.  Please point me to ANY research not performed by frauds that proves that ALL humans are capable of being ALWAYS healthy.  Thats the most ridiculous claim I have ever seen here on MDC.  And no, it wouldn't take ONE example to prove, it would take THOUSANDS of examples.

 

How do you know that not a single wild dog suffers from the same diseases as domestic dogs?  If its true, its probably b/c they don't live long enough to get that sick.  Please don't start telling me that wild dogs live to be 15-20 and are perfectly healthy for their entire lives.  I'm really not sure where you're getting this info, but I'm suspecting its from a blog or something that has absolutely zero scientific value.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Vaccinations
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Baby › Baby Health › Vaccinations › Should vaccinated have right to sue unvaccinated?