Should vaccinated have right to sue unvaccinated? - Page 15

[SilverMoon010]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

I don't think there is anything wrong with her opinions.  I agree with her.  It seem's she DID her research as well, and you don't like that she has a counter argument for your argument against vax.  Which is fine, one thing law school taught me is that EVERY argument has a counter argument - and people believe differen't sides of it. 

The arguments I am seeing are not concrete at all. What I see are opinions that are presented in a judgmental/accusatory way, insinuating those who don't vaccinate don't have common sense, etc, rather than just simply presenting opinions. There's no need for that. Anyway, I don't feel like arguing about that because it's not important.

I still have yet to see someone give me a counter argument on the Hep B at birth, or even at 2 months, 4 months etc. Maybe someone can now provide wonderful studies on why Hep B is necessary in small children if the mother does not have the virus? I would love to hear the reasoning as to why it is SO important for every infant/baby to receive. That's the best way this country knows how to welcome a newborn into the world is to jab it with a needle? If this doesn't raise a red flag than I don't know what would.

(Moderators:If this is straying too far off topic, let me know and I'll revise.)
Edited by SilverMoon010 - 4/8/11 at 7:46am

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Who said I make a conscious effort be exposed to tons of toxins?  I'm pointing out that not everyone has the resources to eat this "ideal" diet that would ensure no one ever got sick in their life.  I certainly don't.  So I do my research and weigh the risks of vaccines/vpd/  In my case, they came out differently than in yours, but it sounds like you have the resources at your disposal to eat high quality foods that don't contain toxins - I do not.  No, I'm not "rich" - I'm POOR, with very little money.

MOST people do not have the money to afford this ideal diet that you speak of (yet, can't articulate b/c you don't know what it is exactly - its just supposition), and so we weigh the risks.

What the heck? This makes no sense! I never said eating a healthy diet will make you never get sick! It does, in fact, just make you healthier to fight off illnesses. My "ideal diet" that you are referring to means, yes, eating meat without hormones in it. Sorry that I want to be healthy and not take in pesticides etc on my fruit either. Sorry you are getting P'Od that I want a great diet for my child. And no, I am not made of money. I made the decision to cut back on unnecessary things to buy the foods that I would like my son to eat. And yes, fruits without pesticides and non-GMO foods are affordable. Just the fact that you tihnk only rich people can afford healthy food is pure nonsense. Plus, this is totally off topic now and beating a dead horse.

I'm sorry, I must have gotten you confused with Calm, who IS insisting that a healthy diet (or "ideal" diet) will insure that no human every gets sick, just like her wild dogs who never get sick.

And no, I cannot cut back on unnecessary expenses to make sure that I can eat all organic, grassfed beef and organic veggies.  I ride the bus to work (B/c a car is WAY out of my budget), I live in the tiniest apartment that my ds and I can comfortably live in, I clip coupons, and I don't spend ANY money on unnecessary items.  I'm glad that you have the ability to afford great foods by doing that, I do not, and MANY people are in that same position.  I never said that ONLY rich people could afford those things, but living below the poverty line (by a LOT) makes it impossible to afford.  And there is hardly any middle class in America anymore b/c the gap between the rich and poor continues to broaden (thank you GOP), which means there are more people that cannot afford those things.  Clearly you don't understand what its like to REALLY be poor - I don't even know how I'm going to pay my rent next month, and you're telling me that I should cut back on unnecessary spending so that my ds can eat all organic grassfed whatever.  No, thats not the way my life works right now.  Hopefully someday in the future that will be manageable.  But its not right now.

Medical care however, is free for us (with zero co-pay) b/c we qualify.  It's the only thing I don't have to worry about being able to afford.  Which is kind of a miracle as far as I'm concerned. 

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by SilverMoon010


The arguments I am seeing are not concrete at all. What I see are opinions that are presented in a judgmental/accusatory way, insinuating those who don't vaccinate don't have common sense, etc, rather than just simply presenting opinions. There's no need for that. Anyway, I don't feel like arguing about that because it's not important.

I still have yet to see someone give me a counter argument on the Hep B at birth, or even at 2 months, 4 months etc. Maybe someone can now provide wonderful studies on why Hep B is necessary in small children if the mother does not have the virus? I would love to hear the reasoning as to why it is SO important for every infant/baby to receive. That's the best way this country knows how to welcome a newborn into the world is to jab it with a needle? If this doesn't raise a red flag than I don't know what would.

(Moderators:If this is straying too far off topic, let me know and I'll revise.)

And your opinions aren't much better since they insinuate that those of us who vax haven't done our research, are stupid, and want our children to have horrible things happen to them.  Which is also HIGHLY offensive.  I'm pretty uncertain why this forum even exists at all since the overall consensus of the non-vaxers is that all us vaxers are dumb and uneducated.  I mean, I don't really get what you're trying to say (since you haven't provided any good objective research either)
 

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by tonttu 

The biggest problem with the vaccination statistics is , that people say "well , look at all the people who die or have damage from immunization compared to those , whose go through the disease"

And that alone is absolutely ridiculous and 100% untrue . Some people do get problems after the vaccines , BUT  those statistics include EVERYBODY who was vaccinated , including people with a suppressed immune system and people , who are allergic to one or a few of the vac ingredients .

And , considering the vast number of people , who are being vaccinated all over the world every year , those numbers are still extremely small .

And compared to that , the number of children , that used to die of so-called "harmless" childhood diseases even decades ago , before there were vaccines , are huge and to this day in third World countries , babies and children still die in alarming numbers , that are not vaccinated . The only reasoon , why many people don´t die from the diseases nowadays , is because there simply are not so many cases around , because most people use common sense and vaccinate their kids and themselves .

Plus , something as "harmless" as chicken pox still kills about 18.000 people in the US alone very year , measles in most cases lead to meningitis and inflammation of the heart muscle and so on  , and many other "harmless" illnesses lead at the least to infertility and such problems .  

I would love to ask a mother in the 1920s or 1930s , if she would choose to have her kid vaccinated against polio (to which there is NO cure for to this day , only prevention by vaccine) or diphteria , which killed hordes of children many years ago , or if she would rather have him/her go through the natural disease .

I am guessing , the nanswer would be "give the vaccine" .

Or tetanus , there is NO SUCH THING as immunity to tetanus , it will kill you , slowly and VERY painfully , yes it is quite rare , but I´d rather take my chances with the vaccination , that the risk of getting it .

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

I don't think there is anything wrong with her opinions.  I agree with her.  It seem's she DID her research as well, and you don't like that she has a counter argument for your argument against vax.  Which is fine, one thing law school taught me is that EVERY argument has a counter argument - and people believe differen't sides of it. 

Really? Because she stated in 1 post that tetanus WILL KILL YOU and in another that the mortality rate was between 48 and 73 percent. So which is it? Also she states that currently there are 18,000 people dying from chicken pox per year. I don't think so. Also states that blackpox has been eliminated. Blackpox is not a disease, but a symptom of smallpox. I think she is letting her personal experience guide her (ie her cousin died of measles) which is totally fine since all of us come from some sort of personal experience. Many folks who question vaccines or chosse not to vaccinate are people who have experienced or seen adverse reactions. What I don't understand is why this has to get nasty? Categorically insinuating that people that choose to not vaccinate their children lack common sense and don't love thier children is just uncalled for.
 

[SilverMoon010]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

And your opinions aren't much better since they insinuate that those of us who vax want to kill babies or something.  I mean, I don't really get what you're trying to say (since you haven't provided any good objective research either)
 

I never said that, did I? I don't care what you do or the decisions you make. I don't judge you. I make my decisions and they are very different than yours. The fact is that vaccines have tons of crap in them, and yes, the unvaccinated can catch illnesses, we all know this. We are ALL taking a risks. Plain and simple. We all know this so why bash each other, such as making statements like that. I've never called out someone who vaccinates and said they have no common sense, so you can never say that about my posts. Sometimes I do give it back to those who want to judge like that because I don't think it's right and find it very disrespectful.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 




I never said that, did I? I don't care what you do or the decisions you make. I don't judge you. I make my decisions and they are very different than yours. The fact is that vaccines have tons of crap in them, and yes, the unvaccinated can catch illnesses, we all know this. We are ALL taking a risks. Plain and simple. We all know this so why bash each other, such as making statements like that. I've never called out someone who vaccinates and said they have no common sense, so you can never say that about my posts. Sometimes I do give it back to those who want to judge like that because I don't think it's right and find it rude.

I edited that post, so I'm going to ask you to edit as well.  And no, you didn't use those words, but when you INSINUATE something, you don't have to explicitly say it.  Yes, we all take risks, I agree with that.  I also haven't been judging you - just debating our different viewpoints - if you want to take that as judgment thats fine, thats on you.  The entire vax forum is based on "people who vax don't do their research!  Lets EDUCATE them!"  Which is offensive in and of itself.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

Categorically insinuating that people that choose to not vaccinate their children lack common sense and don't love thier children is just uncalled for.
 

Just like categorically insinuating that those of us who DO vax are uneducated, lack common sense, and don't do our research is uncalled for.  Which is what the vax forum is based off of.  I personally wish this forum wasn't even here.

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by tonttu 

The biggest problem with the vaccination statistics is , that people say "well , look at all the people who die or have damage from immunization compared to those , whose go through the disease"

And that alone is absolutely ridiculous and 100% untrue . Some people do get problems after the vaccines , BUT  those statistics include EVERYBODY who was vaccinated , including people with a suppressed immune system and people , who are allergic to one or a few of the vac ingredients .

And , considering the vast number of people , who are being vaccinated all over the world every year , those numbers are still extremely small .

And compared to that , the number of children , that used to die of so-called "harmless" childhood diseases even decades ago , before there were vaccines , are huge and to this day in third World countries , babies and children still die in alarming numbers , that are not vaccinated . The only reasoon , why many people don´t die from the diseases nowadays , is because there simply are not so many cases around , because most people use common sense and vaccinate their kids and themselves .

Plus , something as "harmless" as chicken pox still kills about 18.000 people in the US alone very year , measles in most cases lead to meningitis and inflammation of the heart muscle and so on  , and many other "harmless" illnesses lead at the least to infertility and such problems .  

I would love to ask a mother in the 1920s or 1930s , if she would choose to have her kid vaccinated against polio (to which there is NO cure for to this day , only prevention by vaccine) or diphteria , which killed hordes of children many years ago , or if she would rather have him/her go through the natural disease .

I am guessing , the nanswer would be "give the vaccine" .

Or tetanus , there is NO SUCH THING as immunity to tetanus , it will kill you , slowly and VERY painfully , yes it is quite rare , but I´d rather take my chances with the vaccination , that the risk of getting it .

There are so many inaccuracies in this post that it boggles my mind.

18,000 people are not dying every year from chicken pox in the US.  Not even close.  On a quick search, I saw that the CDC reported a whopping 8 deaths from chicken pox in 2003 and the beginning of 2004.  I'm not sure where you're getting your "statistic" of 18,000!

Measles "in most cases" does not lead to meningitis.  In some severe cases, perhaps.  Not in most cases, again, not even close.

Most people vaccinate because they use common sense?  Actually, I vaccinated before I got common sense and finally did some research, and then came to the conclusion that it made more sense not to vaccinate.  And by the sounds of it, I've done a lot more research than you have. "Most" people vaccinate based on fear.  Yes, there are many who do their research and accept the known risks, but in my real-world experience, that's not the norm.  I know when my first was fully vaccinated until he was 5, I was completely ignorant to the risks.

If by statistics you are talking about the published studies, those do NOT account for everyone who was vaccinated.  The studies are typically based on a very healthy population.  And how would one know if they are allergic to the vaccine ingredients BEFORE vaccinating?  I mean, a newborn who has had nothing but breastmilk and then is given the Hep B vaccine is not tested first to see if they are allergic to the adjuvants.

Oh, and there were at least 12 infants in a pneumonia vaccine clinical study in Argentina who died after receiving the vaccine a few years ago.

And you don't seem to be aware that even the creator of the polio vaccine admitted that the vaccine caused more cases of polio than it prevented.  Contracting polio was a significant and real risk of the live polio vaccine.

My grandmother had polio as an adult, and survived with no ill effects.  My mother had measles at 2 and survived, with no ill effects.  I'm sorry for the loss of your cousin, but you seem to be under the impression that VPD = death, and that's just not the case now, and has never been.

If there is no such thing as immunity to tetanus, then what point is vaccinating against it?  Isn't the point of vaccinating to get immunity??

Here is a good article and some graphs about the actual history of decline of VPDs.  It's not what you seem to believe, and before spouting off such offensive nonsense again, I would highly recommend you educate yourself.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2010/02/28/vaccine-myths-round-four/

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Just like categorically insinuating that those of us who DO vax are uneducated, lack common sense, and don't do our research is uncalled for.  Which is what the vax forum is based off of.  I personally wish this forum wasn't even here.

Then why do you read it if it bothers you so much?

[SilverMoon010]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Just like categorically insinuating that those of us who DO vax are uneducated, lack common sense, and don't do our research is uncalled for.  Which is what the vax forum is based off of.  I personally wish this forum wasn't even here.

But why do you come back if you hate it?

We're not here to name call (well most of us anyway). The majority of people on here are just very passionate about their decision, whether it be to vaccinate or not.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

  Actually, I vaccinated before I got common sense and finally did some research, and then came to the conclusion that it made more sense not to vaccinate.  And by the sounds of it, I've done a lot more research than you have. "Most" people vaccinate based on fear.  Yes, there are many who do their research and accept the known risks, but in my real-world experience, that's not the norm.  I know when my first was fully vaccinated until he was 5, I was completely ignorant to the risks.

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

Then why do you read it if it bothers you so much?

B/c of what you wrote above.  You assume that people in the "real world" haven't done their research.  Do you discuss it with them?  Have you asked?  Probably not, I don't generally discuss hot topic items with people in the real world.  I probably don't look any different from other parents that vax "in the real world".  The reason I read and post is to challenge the idea that people who vax don't research, and do it out of fear.

Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Just like categorically insinuating that those of us who DO vax are uneducated, lack common sense, and don't do our research is uncalled for.  Which is what the vax forum is based off of.  I personally wish this forum wasn't even here.

But why do you come back if you hate it?

We're not here to name call (well most of us anyway). The majority of people on here are just very passionate about their decision, whether it be to vaccinate or not.

Really?  Accusing all who vax of not doing their research b/c if they did research they wouldn't dare vax isn't name calling or implying that you think they aren't as intelligent as those of you who don't vax?  You probably come here for support in your decisions, but I'll tell ya there isn't much of that for those of who do vax here on MDC.  Everytime our children get sick, everytime something happens to them, everytime they are hospitalized we are accused of hurting them via vax. 

[tonttu]

First of all , black pox is not a side effect of chicken pox , it is a form of pox all by itself and it is VERY lethal and yes , no vaccine that I am aware of causes lifetime immunity , but also not every disease , that you had causes lifetime immunity , there are cases , when the immunity against them was not complete .

Plus , a mortality rate of 48 to 73 % means in numbers , that half to 3/4 of all people getting it , will die .

Have you ever seen anybody , who had tetanus , the lock jaw , the excrutiating pain , the muscle cramps , that will make you bend backwards ? 

Well , I have and the problem with the bacteria , that causes tetanus is , that it is in many places , not only on a rusty nail , like most people believe .

All you basically have to do , is dig in the dirt in your backyard with a fresh cut on your hand and you can theoretically get it and yes , if you got hurt , you can get the shot , but it takes longer for the shot to take effect , than the outbreak of the disease in many cases , so that is also not a foolproof way to go .

One of  the reasons , why babies get immunized at a fairly early age , is , so that they can build up immunity before they start getting into situations , where they can contract possibly fatal illnesses 

Mumps is a childhood disease , did you know , that about 30% of all boys going through it , become infertile , because their testicles become inflamed ?

And it is NOT true , that most cases of measles carry no side effects , unfortunately , most cases do have some long-term effects , like heart problems and that sort .

And polio is one disease , where there is NO cure to this day and even though some people do get lucky and have no long-term problems , there are many people , that do .

Yes ,  the developer of the polio vaccine admitted , that it was not safe , but since then , polio vacc has come a long way and the vacc given by shot now , rather than the live virus given by mouth has proven to be a lot safer and with a lot less side effects than the "old" one

I am not saying , that people , who don´t vacc , are careless , but the problem is in our society , that we are not exposed to and do not see all these illnesses anymore , the way people did 100 years ago . 

If you have EVER been to a 3rd World country and witnessed the devastation caused by a "harmless" disease , I promise , you will see it in a different light .

[SilverMoon010]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

B/c of what you wrote above.  You assume that people in the "real world" haven't done their research.  Do you discuss it with them?  Have you asked?  Probably not, I don't generally discuss hot topic items with people in the real world.  I probably don't look any different from other parents that vax "in the real world".  The reason I read and post is to challenge the idea that people who vax don't research, and do it out of fear.

Really?  Accusing all who vax of not doing their research b/c if they did research they wouldn't dare vax isn't name calling or implying that you think they aren't as intelligent as those of you who don't vax?  You probably come here for support in your decisions, but I'll tell ya there isn't much of that for those of who do vax here on MDC.  Everytime our children get sick, everytime something happens to them, everytime they are hospitalized we are accused of hurting them via vax. 

Wow, okay. With my last post, I was just trying to help and be nice (although you continue to banter every single post I make) and put some reason into your post as to why it gets heated in here sometimes (because we are all passionate) but you just seem really very angry at this point, so I will stop.

I don't understand why you get so upset. You are in the majority! (Maybe not always in here but in the world.) Those who choose not to vaccinate have to FIGHT for what they believe in and it's not always pleasant. It's much easier to go with the grain but since we have conducted so much energy and time into our research and are continuously fighting back, you better believe we have some passion and it ain't gonna stop, so if you hate that, I don't know what to tell you.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 



I don't understand why you get so upset. You are in the majority! (Maybe not always in here but in the world.) Those who choose not to vaccinate have to FIGHT for what they believe in and it's not always pleasant. It's much easier to go with the grain but since we have conducted so much energy and time into our research and are continuously fighting back, you better believe we have some passion and it ain't gonna stop, so if you hate that, I don't know what to tell you.

So you feel the need to holler and yell at ME?  I'm not a dr.  I don't refuse your child admission to school for you not vaxing.  I'm not the one telling you what you do and don't have to do.  I don't make the laws.  There is no reason for you to be passionate or argumentative towards me when I'm not the one making it difficult for you to choose what you do. 

And yeah, maybe it is easier to go with the grain, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't do my research to decide what I'm going to do - whereas the assumption on this board is that if you DO go with the grain, its JUST to go with the grain, and NOT b/c of doing research and coming to an informed decision.  THAT assumption angers me, b/c you have NO RIGHT to assume the worst of me as a parent - which is what non-vaxers do when they say they did their research and just can't believe that more people don't research it.  There's a sense of complete disbelief that anyone could possibly come to a different conclusion about the same research, which is offensive.

[Plaid Leopard]

Originally Posted by tonttu 

First of all , black pox is not a side effect of chicken pox , it is a form of pox all by itself and it is VERY lethal and yes , no vaccine that I am aware of causes lifetime immunity , but also not every disease , that you had causes lifetime immunity , there are cases , when the immunity against them was not complete .

Plus , a mortality rate of 48 to 73 % means in numbers , that half to 3/4 of all people getting it , will die .

Have you ever seen anybody , who had tetanus , the lock jaw , the excrutiating pain , the muscle cramps , that will make you bend backwards ? 

Well , I have and the problem with the bacteria , that causes tetanus is , that it is in many places , not only on a rusty nail , like most people believe .

All you basically have to do , is dig in the dirt in your backyard with a fresh cut on your hand and you can theoretically get it and yes , if you got hurt , you can get the shot , but it takes longer for the shot to take effect , than the outbreak of the disease in many cases , so that is also not a foolproof way to go .

One of  the reasons , why babies get immunized at a fairly early age , is , so that they can build up immunity before they start getting into situations , where they can contract possibly fatal illnesses 

Mumps is a childhood disease , did you know , that about 30% of all boys going through it , become infertile , because their testicles become inflamed ?

And it is NOT true , that most cases of measles carry no side effects , unfortunately , most cases do have some long-term effects , like heart problems and that sort .

And polio is one disease , where there is NO cure to this day and even though some people do get lucky and have no long-term problems , there are many people , that do .

Yes ,  the developer of the polio vaccine admitted , that it was not safe , but since then , polio vacc has come a long way and the vacc given by shot now , rather than the live virus given by mouth has proven to be a lot safer and with a lot less side effects than the "old" one

I am not saying , that people , who don´t vacc , are careless , but the problem is in our society , that we are not exposed to and do not see all these illnesses anymore , the way people did 100 years ago . 

If you have EVER been to a 3rd World country and witnessed the devastation caused by a "harmless" disease , I promise , you will see it in a different light .

I'm wondering where you are getting your information about mumps.

From what I have read, about 25% of boys who contract mumps after puberty will experience swelling of the testicles (orchitis) but this only rarely leads to infertility.

Younger boys who have not reached puberty are not at risk of orchitis or infertility.

Of course, with waning vaccine immunity, more older boys and men are at increased risk of contracting mumps and experiencing complications.

[SilverMoon010]

See post below. Duplicate post.

[SilverMoon010]

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

There are so many inaccuracies in this post that it boggles my mind.

18,000 people are not dying every year from chicken pox in the US.  Not even close.  On a quick search, I saw that the CDC reported a whopping 8 deaths from chicken pox in 2003 and the beginning of 2004.  I'm not sure where you're getting your "statistic" of 18,000!

Measles "in most cases" does not lead to meningitis.  In some severe cases, perhaps.  Not in most cases, again, not even close.

Most people vaccinate because they use common sense?  Actually, I vaccinated before I got common sense and finally did some research, and then came to the conclusion that it made more sense not to vaccinate.  And by the sounds of it, I've done a lot more research than you have. "Most" people vaccinate based on fear. Yes, there are many who do their research and accept the known risks, but in my real-world experience, that's not the norm.  I know when my first was fully vaccinated until he was 5, I was completely ignorant to the risks.

If by statistics you are talking about the published studies, those do NOT account for everyone who was vaccinated.  The studies are typically based on a very healthy population.  And how would one know if they are allergic to the vaccine ingredients BEFORE vaccinating?  I mean, a newborn who has had nothing but breastmilk and then is given the Hep B vaccine is not tested first to see if they are allergic to the adjuvants.

Oh, and there were at least 12 infants in a pneumonia vaccine clinical study in Argentina who died after receiving the vaccine a few years ago.

And you don't seem to be aware that even the creator of the polio vaccine admitted that the vaccine caused more cases of polio than it prevented.  Contracting polio was a significant and real risk of the live polio vaccine.

My grandmother had polio as an adult, and survived with no ill effects.  My mother had measles at 2 and survived, with no ill effects.  I'm sorry for the loss of your cousin, but you seem to be under the impression that VPD = death, and that's just not the case now, and has never been.

If there is no such thing as immunity to tetanus, then what point is vaccinating against it?  Isn't the point of vaccinating to get immunity??

Here is a good article and some graphs about the actual history of decline of VPDs.  It's not what you seem to believe, and before spouting off such offensive nonsense again, I would highly recommend you educate yourself.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2010/02/28/vaccine-myths-round-four/

Yes, I believe this as well. My opinion is that I think a lot of parents are afraid to even open a book to research what's in vaccines because #1, they are afraid to really find out what's in them, because # 2, if they do find out what's in them and do not like it, they may have to choose to make a decision to go against the grain of the CDC/AAP recommendations and follow their own schedule or don't vax at all, thus "causing waves," and it's much easier to follow all doctors orders and have all of their trust in them that the doctor knows best. When researching vaccines, it's a very difficult decision for parents, and I think we all know this on this forum because I think it's safe to say we have all done our research.
Edited by SilverMoon010 - 4/9/11 at 9:29am

[SilverMoon010]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

So you feel the need to holler and yell at ME?  I'm not a dr.  I don't refuse your child admission to school for you not vaxing.  I'm not the one telling you what you do and don't have to do.  I don't make the laws.  There is no reason for you to be passionate or argumentative towards me when I'm not the one making it difficult for you to choose what you do. 

And yeah, maybe it is easier to go with the grain, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't do my research to decide what I'm going to do - whereas the assumption on this board is that if you DO go with the grain, its JUST to go with the grain, and NOT b/c of doing research and coming to an informed decision.  THAT assumption angers me, b/c you have NO RIGHT to assume the worst of me as a parent - which is what non-vaxers do when they say they did their research and just can't believe that more people don't research it.  There's a sense of complete disbelief that anyone could possibly come to a different conclusion about the same research, which is offensive.

Wait, this is funny because a lot of your posts normally consist of all caps. If that's not yelling, I don't know what is. You are completely generalizing all nonvaxers as yelling at you and saying you are uneducated when I have not seen one post that says that or even insinuates that. Now it's just getting crazy and terribly annoying. You don't hear me complaining that I'm tired of all vaxers saying those who don't vaccinate are going to die, do you? And that's because I don't believe it and don't care what they say. Maybe you shouldn't either.
Edited by SilverMoon010 - 4/8/11 at 9:32am

[chaoticzenmom]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Just like categorically insinuating that those of us who DO vax are uneducated, lack common sense, and don't do our research is uncalled for.  Which is what the vax forum is based off of.  I personally wish this forum wasn't even here.

When you make a decision to go against what the majority of people do, it can make you a little overly judgemental about the whole thing.  I know that I was when I first made the decision.  I truly considered vaccines to be a poison and could not understand why people would do it if they truly knew what I knew.  Now, I know that that's not the case at all.  I'm comfortable in my decision and therefore comfortable with others decisions.  Everyone is somewhere on that continuum and that's why it's good to have this board.  We need support when we're newly trying to figure this out and we also need to see differing opinions so that we can gently come to a comfortable, accepting place.  It can be frustrating to feel that you're being persecuted.  I feel like that often when I read posts here.  But, even when I feel deeply offended, I value the knowledge that there are people in the world who think differently than I do.

A thread like this, in response to an article claiming that people who don't vaccinate should be sued, can really bring out the anger.  I'm trying not to take anything I read here too personally.  I know it's hard.  I know that you're educated, loving, sensible, etc. The messages that we all hear the most are from the most outspoken, not from the most common opinions.

I hope that's true of the pro-vax people as well...none that I know personally are very upset about the fact that some people choose not to vaccinate.

[sosurreal09]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

I don't think there is anything wrong with her opinions.  I agree with her.  It seem's she DID her research as well, and you don't like that she has a counter argument for your argument against vax.  Which is fine, one thing law school taught me is that EVERY argument has a counter argument - and people believe differen't sides of it. 

Oh ok so YOU don't think there is anything wrong with her opinions even though she is slandering a parenting choice, when YOU are the one who keeps saying everyone should respect you and your decision to vax without being slandered for doing so?!

I feel I have respected you SSM even though our opinions differ, her "opinions" are directly challenging my parental decision and saying she doesn't understand how I could do that to my child, I am endangering her ect ect THAT IS NOT RESPECT.