Question for those with a high needs LO/Poor sleeper

[jerkytreat2]

Hi everyone,

DD is 18 months old. Her typical sleep duration is 2 hours between wake ups...sometimes worse. Sometimes I get lucky and she sleeps for 3 hours but she's only slept 4 hours a handful of times in her life. She asks to nurse each time she wakes up. I've started doing a little bit of the Jay Gordon method where I don't let her fall asleep while nursing and that did seem to help a little but then she started teething again. She is so demanding and will throw an absolute fit if I try not to nurse her. Lots of times she wakes up crying and I nurse her to calm her down(like having a bad dream or something) and others she is just disoriented and wants to nurse. She also needs to have her hand down my shirt while falling asleep. She seems like she needs my constant touch/presence however there have been multiple times where she wakes up because I moved.

We have bedshared since she was 2 months old. She was extremely high needs as an infant so I did whatever I could to respond to her immediately so that she wouldn't get out of control. She's gotten better but is still very sensitive, demanding, intense. Her sweet personality and loving nature makes up for that, but it doesn't make me any less tired!! Most of my family thinks I'm nuts since I've never done CIO nor do I want to. But I WOULD like her to sleep more for me!

I try to lay down with her during her nap but I don't get much done and I'm still not in the shape that I'd like to be because I never have the energy to work out. Sometimes I feel GUILTY about thinking of nightweaning and other times I feel SO done and resentful.

We want to have another baby somewhat soon but I genuinely worry about how I will handle it if she is still waking me up all night. In some ways we think it'd be good to just get it over with and if we're already waking up it won't be so bad. But it seems pretty overwhelming. I am reading the "No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers and Preschoolers" and I'm going to try some of the tips in there as well.

So I guess my question is: If your LO was a poor sleeper did you wait to get pregnant again until they were sleeping better or did you just deal with the frequent waking with two LO's? And did you feel guilty nightweaning so that you could kind of prepare for the next baby? I obviously WANT and crave sleep but part of me feels badly like I am choosing the possible next LO over her needs right now.

Thanks for any advice!

[mamaforever]

Sorry I don't really have any advice- I just want to say that I feel for you!  That is a LOT of nightwakings, especially for 18 months of age.  As far as nightweaning goes... I know that some mamas can nurse both their toddler and newborn baby.  Your body can produce enough milk for both (but that's just what I've read/heard... I personally had milk supply issues with just one baby and could never imagine having a second child to feed too!).  My son is 26 months old now and also was a very high needs baby.  He isn't really high needs anymore though, and usually only wakes 2 or 3 times per night (he always needs a bottle to get back to sleep--- he weaned himself from the breast very early at 12 months).  Anyway, the main reason DH and I have waited to have another baby is because #1) I was EXTREMELY sick during pregnancy and know it will probably happen again the next time, #2) I'm still quite young so I have some time before I have to worry about losing any fertility because of age, #3) DS was such a high needs baby that I feel like I need a "break" in between children, and #4) DS is still waking a few times a night and I was hoping he'd be waking maybe only once per night when baby #2 is born so I'm not overly exhausted.  We are going to try and conceive again starting this June.  So it's just a very personal decision for you and DH.

[Peony]

I don't nightwean, just not my thing, none of my 3 children have been good sleepers. DD1 was 3 when I finally got pg with DD2, I got pg, and she started sleeping, until then she had never slept longer then 2 hours. DD2 was 21 months or so when I got pg with DS, she stopped nursing at night by herself during that pg but never STTN. She is 4 now and still wakes up. I got pg again when DS was about 18m and still waking up frequently. It is rough. Between peeing every hour and then him waking me up when I don't need to actually pee, I don't sleep much and it isn't like I spent the last 8 years doing much sleeping anyway.  Ideally, it would be been nice to have him a little older and less dependent on me but alas, it didn't work out that way! For me, obviously I just deal with the nightwaking children, and when they do stop nursing at night, at least with my kids, it isn't that they actually sleep either. 2 out of my 3 haven't nursed in a while and still are up at night, DS rarely nurses at night now because I have no milk left but he still wakes up and stirs about every how often he used to to nurse. So no real answers here, at this point I'm figuring that someday they will all be older and I'll sleep then!

 

[littlehoneybee]

My first was a horrible sleeper waking anywhere from four to twelve times per night.  The thought of having a newborn on top of that literally gave me a panic attack because I was sooooo tired.  Whenever DH brought the idea of having another child, I would cry for hours.  When DS was 2 1/2, I nightweaned him.  I just couldn't take it anymore.  It was the BEST thing I ever did.  It took a few months, but eventually he started sleeping through the night--the whole night.  Of course I got pregnant very shortly after that, so I didn't get much sleep for long. My second is 28 months and I'm still waiting for her to sleep through the night

[Shannie77]

My DD1 who is almost 4 has been a terrible sleeper from the beginning.  She would wake up for hours in the middle of the night, wake up so early for weeks on end, take forever to fall asleep.  Then we had a period where she woke up screaming and took an hour to calm down, sometimes twice a night, and now she is waking up having tantrums because of covers touching her.  She has basically always nursed at night.  I was able to mostly nightwean her while I was pregnant and her sleep did improve.  When DD2 was born I felt so guilty I just let her get back in bed with me and nurse - that was a huge mistake.

Now I am getting hardly any sleep dealing with the normal waking of a 9 month old, and my DD1's nightwakings.  Honestly I think it is a huge factor that has contributed to PPD this time around.  I really wish I had nightweaned around 18 months - 2 years, before I got pregnant.  I really believed that things would get better on their own. I heard a lot of "this too shall pass" and that it would resolve as DD got bigger.  But now she is almost 4 and nothing has improved - if anything it is worse.  It is making daytimes less enjoyable because I am so tired and stressed.  I also work from home part-time while the kids nap and teach ballet a few hours a week... I don't know I might feel differently if I was a full-time SAHM.

Anyways, I really do enjoy tandem nursing... just not at night!

[MamieCole]

DS1 was a frequent waker from day one until he was about 2 1/2.  Like a PP, night weaning just wasn't my thing. His need for nursing at night was a real, true need, not just a habit or want. He would get hysterical if I each time I tried any of the suggestions in the Toddler No Cry Sleep Solution book. So I just kept dealing with the wakings, nursing each time and then he eventually started sleeping better as he got older. 

DS2 is 16 months and wakes several to a gajillion times per night now. I am able to get him to fall back asleep other ways every now and then when I am just "nursed out."  He doesn't get frantic and extremely upset like DS1 used to and I can calm him back to sleep by singing or patting his back sometimes. Once I understood what normal infant sleep was, it was easier for me to roll with it.

Every kid is different. Every kid sleeps differently. Every kid will respond to having nursing withheld differently. You just have to find that magical solution that meets the specific needs of you and your LO and keeps everyone sane and happy. 

[dancinganya]

My daughter is almost 2 and still wakes up every few hours to nurse at night.  I recently moved her from our bed into her own bed in her own room, which she loves.  The catch is that I end up sleeping most of the night in there with her.  I sleep ok, but miss my hubby.  It does allow us a few hours together in bed at night before I go to her though, which has been nice.

My sister has four kids and generally nightweans around 18 months.  My daughter is very high needs as well and throws a fit if I don't nurse her and especially if Daddy comes to her in the middle of the night or tries to put her to sleep.  I'm thinking about nightweaning her, but haven't gotten the courage to do it.

My ideal situation would be cosleeping in a kingsized bed (we have a queen and it just got too crowded) and to put her in her own space for the beginning of the night so my husband and I could have our own time in bed together.  Or even a mattress on the floor of our room (room is just too small).

The Sears folks say, "if you resent it, change it" so I encourage you to do what you need to do to be a good mommy.

My husband is not wanting another child yet.  If I was married to a man who was ready, I would be pregnant right now, but some days I'm glad I haven't gotten pregnant yet because my daughter takes so much energy still!  There is nothing wrong with waiting until you feel your family is ready to have another one, or pushing ahead and knowing that you will handle what comes. Having a sibling will be a wonderful gift to your child whenever you are ready.

[Curlyfry7]

My 1st was not nursed long due to supply and other issues, but was (and is) a terrible sleeper. When I got pg when he was 18 months old, he was still waking up around 3 times a night and staying awake for hours each time. He gradually woke less and didn't stay awake for so long when he did wake up, but at almost 4 1/2 he still wakes up at least once per night and, since we moved him to his own bed when he was a little past 4, comes into our room and gets in bed with us.

DD is 26 months, still co-sleeps. She absolutely had to be touching me to sleep until she was 18 months old. She was still nursing 4-12 times per night at that point, and we wanted to get pg again (and I was 39, so had some presuure to do it) so I did a partial nightweaning at 18-19 months old. I got pg when she was about 21-22 months, and I still was nursing her a little at night, and continued for a few months, then finally cut out the night nursings. She still nurses to fall asleep, which we JUST started to wean her from as it hurts me excruciatingly. She still wakes up 1-several times per night, even though she has all her teeth now.

Neither LO sleeps much overall, neither naps. I'm 40 and almost 22 weeks pg, so I'm a pretty tired mama. If I hadn't been older I would have probably waited at least a little longer in between kids, but the steps we have taken have been gentle, so I've been OK with them. But it's hard, I won't lie.

[jerkytreat2]

Thank you so much to everyone who responded. It's given me a lot of things to think about and I really appreciate it! I'm thankful to have found this forum because no one in my "real" life has a kid who sleeps this poorly and it's hard not to feel like we're the only ones sometimes.

I haven't started nightweaning her yet and I'm still not sure what I'll do. I am 29 so we don't have to seriously rush but we'd like the spacing between kids to be around 3 years if we can with the possibility of having a third. Nursing at night is already a little irritating because she gets lazy with her latch and it does hurt sometimes...so I imagine it'd be worse while pregnant! She won't let my husband soothe her at night either, it's got to be me. I'm not entirely convinced that her night waking would stop, as some of you mentioned happened with your LO's. So I guess I still need more time for us to think about it. :)

Thank you all so much!!!!

[JeanetteJ]

There's also a Yahoo group for parents of high need kids. We share all kinds of info on parenting these types of intense children...everything from sleep to handling strong emotions to transitions from one activity to the next, etc. You might do a seach on Yahoo under "HNChild." Help from the group is under the philosophy of attachment parenting so you won't find anyone on there suggesting CIO. 

I know you can get the same kind of support on Mothering, but I thought I'd just throw that out there.  

My now 4 yo was a very intense baby. Colicky, unable to sleep for long, needed touch from me nearly constantly. I night-weaned him when he was 18 months because I was pregnant with my second son. It was a long process with some starts and stops. I should say that night-weaning didn't result in instant sleeping through the night. He needed me to be right in contact with him so if I rolled over and had my back to him he was not happy. Fortunately, it was easier for me to just roll back over and continue sleeping. Nursing always kept me awake and I rarely just drifted back to sleep with him latched.

I tandem nursed my two sons, just not at night because I couldn't imagine how I was going to be rested during the day. I had this image of me like a routisserie going back and forth, back and forth nursing each child and me not sleeping well at all. When my second son was born he started sleeping with daddy and I slept with the baby. We had separate rooms and still do. Some day soon we'll combine the beds and have a big family bed.

Good luck!!