HS'ing with busy small children

[aishamama]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping someone could help me out. I am looking at using the K12 program PA Virtual Charter School for my 5 y/o this coming year. I've always wanted to HS though the reasonings have fluctuated somewhat, such as to avoid the social environment in PS. Mostly that. But then we learned that my son's needs are more than PS would probably provide. So I was set on HS'ing...but now here I am about to have my 4th child just at the time when he would start school. Right now their ages are 5, 3, 15m, and due in June. Some days it's so hard to sit with one child without the others deliberately acting out. I do try to keep them busy and give them their activities but they act out 'with' those and basically live in timeout..well mostly the 3 y/o. 

So I've only worked with my 5 y/o off and on as time allowed, not putting in much effort or time. It was never needed and he kind of took charge of that anyway, but we didn't have to learn anything specific. Now that there will be time constraints and some sort of plan to follow, I am not sure how this is going to work out. I know this sounds bad but today was such a bad day that I just wanted them all to go to bed and it to be quiet in the house. I can't begin to tell you how hard today was in every aspect. From the 3 y/o flooding the bathroom and hall way closet and walk way carpets with water to just one thing after the other. My 5 y/o was a little tired so he kept throwing things and misbehaving just because.. The lo was opening drawers, banging everything with play rolling pins, typical stuff. I know it must seem like I don't watch them but I do.. I was changing a diaper while the bathroom was flooded. He's potty trained and does well in there - normally. I've removed anything he could get harmed by so I let him go by himself. I couldn't hear the water running and he's never done 'that' before. I couldn't have imagined that he'd pour all that water everywhere. He filled the sink and then pushed it with his hands onto the floor. I'm very on top of them, but they're very very very busy kids. 

So, any mamas out there who have many kids and HS have any words of advice for me? I don't think I can handle many days like this. And I know when I have this new baby I'm going to be pretty .... edgy most of the time and exhausted and pretty much hating life due to my day time and night time duties. My husband is busy at work so he can't take up slack and we can't hire someone to come and help us this coming year. 

ETA, the 3 y/o is about to wreck my nerves. He's always been 'busy' and all but now he's busy and naughty. It's getting to be more than I can bear. How can I balance HS'ing with this kind of future set up?

Edited by aishamama - 3/4/11 at 7:59pm

[lmonter]

Mine are 7yo, 4.5yo, 2.5yo and 1yo.  I didn't officially even start trying to do school with my oldest (who's my most spirited, btw - the 4yo and 2yo aren't near as busy as him) until last summer.  Before that, we just winged it and lived, doing our thing. 
Honestly, the only way I've been able to do school with the 7yo is to do it after all the younger ones are in bed - so he's gotten most of his wiggles out during the day and the siblings aren't around to distract/annoying.  Either have a fairly relaxed approach to things this year, do mainly unschooling, or yeah, find someone else to help around the house.  Something's going to give, and I guarantee you, you don't want it to be your sanity (says the gal still dealing with PPD).  Bonus if you stock up on easy meals for the summer and then some - OAMC style or whatever works for your family.

Oh, a friend of mine uses K12 for her 10yo.  Um, it's not my cup of tea, but I guess if you have the time it could work.  She's dealing with the local K12 teachers almost as much as she was with the teachers IRL here with issues, and when you multiply that by more than one child's needs...  It would drive me nuts.
 

[aishamama]

Thank you so much for your reply. What time do your children go to sleep? My 5 y/o can't take much after 7-8pm. He goes to bed at 8 and that's only because if he goes any earlier he gets up way too early. Then he disturbs the others. 

[SundayCrepes]

Boy and I thought I had my hands full...and I only have two.

It's getting easier now that my little one is 2.5. I remember when my son was 3. Three is such a hard age.

Anyway, we're on the unschooling spectrum. But if we weren't, I would still delay formal academics. The more I read about delayed academics, the more it makes sense to me. 

I am quite elderly for a mom with young kids. When I was little the public school didn't even offer kindergarten. I've read other people say K was just a chance for the kids to play together in a school environment. Teaching didn't happen until first grade. I like how many European schools do it--they don't start academics until age 7. So, if you follow that model, you've got a couple years to wait before you need to worry about it. (And your 3 year old will be 5 by then. A much easier, and more pleasant, age.)

Here are some links that you may find helpful on delayed academics:

Article on why young kids’ brains aren’t ready for early reading/writing instruction:

 Fall 2007: Teaching our Children to Read Write and Spell

 

Here’s an article that discusses how children who start academics at later ages do better in the long run: 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/2752895.stm

 

Here’s a video on delayed academics in Sweden:

http://www.teachers.tv/videos/sweden-early-years

[aishamama]

Hi Sunday Crepes,

Thank you for the links and your nice reply.

Overall I think these are valid points. We have to keep in mind though that not all children are alike and their needs vary. It wasn't really my encouragement that got us where we are in my 5 y/o's academics but other issues. If we were talking about my 3 y/o it'd be a very different picture. I am thinking differently about my 3 y/o and what approach we'll take for his education. 

I think what I am going to do is to buy two subjects from the K12 for now through the summer and 'see' if I can develop a routine and teach him this way. If it proves too hard then I'll have a better idea of where things need to be tweaked or if I should rather just find a better brick and mortar school to send him to at least for this coming school year.

[three&me]

I'm subbing because I've got 3 boys - turning 5, 3 & 2, with a 4th kiddo due next month, and I find it extremely hard most days to get any HSing done. I also just wanted to say that my kiddos are super active/troublemakers/excitable too and it comes across quite often that I don't keep my eye on them when I do, so I understand!

[Juvysen]

I wanna join in, too.  I have a nearly 1 yo, a 3 1/2 yo and a 5 yo... my 5 yo has picked up reading mostly on her own (she's quite bright and picks things up quickly)... I guess I'm leaning toward unschooling-ish at this point, but the whole thought of homeschooling sort of terrifies me... though the public school isn't an option for us.  I keep wondering how the heck I'll handle it if I ever end up pregnant again...

[aishamama]

All week I've been trying to work with my 5 y/o with a few things, just handwriting and forming the letters correctly.  He is able to write but his handwriting isn't developed well or properly. Until now he's been very stubborn about he wants to write it how he wants to write it, which is sometimes backwards. Anyway, it's been a disaster this week. He won't pay attention or his siblings demand my attention ....just because...I'm sitting with the 5 y/o. The 15 m old cries like something bad happened and the 3 y/o isn't much different or doing naughty things.  

I don't know how other mothers are doing it with the others like this. I can't imagine what it'd be like to add a newborn to all of this who has to be fed/changed literally every 2-3 hours like clock work and then I'll have no sleep and without sleep I'll have no patience. .. I'm really rethinking all of this. I wish someone had some way of telling me how to fix and appease everyone or how they are able to do this. It isn't feeling so positive and it's bringing out the worst in me as a parent. I would rather keep a good relationship and give each special time rather than creating this stress for all of us. 

Is anyone able to help?? I'm sure the vetern homeschoolers have been through things like this??

[onyxravnos]

I know PA has strict homeschooling laws but kidney is a pretty relaxed grade generally. I'm a waldorf person and use oak meadows as a spine with the secular Sonlight books so lots of arts and crafts and reading out loud. Would that be something that might work with your little ones?

Work boxes might help. Get those plastic storage boxes from walmart ( with the 4 or 5 compartments) and each night place the next days official school work in them. Try to make it things your older one can do mainly by themself or with minimal help most days. The younger ones can have their own boxes too with educational toys / coloring books / other that rotate in their box but ONLY come out during 'school'time.

[sleet76]

Personally, I would hesitate to jump into a charter school like k12 right away.  It would be hard to know how much time it would take, and it will likely take more time and hoop-jumping than you really need for kindy.  It takes the decision-making away from you, and may require specific amounts of finished work that are totally unnecessary at that age.  Add in the uncertainty of other little kids and a new baby---I think it will be setting yourself up for a very stressful and frustrating year.  It doesn't take a lot to keep on top of kindergarten--reading together, counting stuff, a little handwriting occasionally--you likely only need to do 2-4 hours of "work" each week, and that's only if you want to really WORK on kindergarten.  Anything you put off, he will learn so quickly and easily in the next few years that it really seems like kindergarten is a waste of time.  

I have three kids, ages 7, almost 6, and 3.  We've always been really relaxed for our kindergarten year, and everyone is moving along just fine.  In fact, with my first, we did nothing differently until January of her kindy year, when she said she wanted to do more school stuff.  We breezed through into solid first grade work in just a few months of a tiny bit of unscheduled "work".  My middle son is into the end of 1st grade work now in his kindy year, just doing a little every now and then.  You can just move on when they learn something, you don't need to fill in all the blanks like schools (not sure how k12 fits into this model) require.

Take it easy this first year, try out things to see what works for you.  You can't mess up kindergarten, really.  :)  It is like jumping off a bridge, I know, and it is hard to see where you will land.  But, for me at least, k12 for kindergarten my first year with babies around would be like trying to learn to swim with an anchor tied to my ankle.  Good luck in your decisions!  It won't be as hard as it sounds.  :)

[4evermom]

Since you are in PA, go ahead and try kindergarten if you think that's best after looking into it.  But think hard before trying 1st grade.  PA has a weirdly written law where you don't have to report as a homeschooler until your dc is 8 at the beginning of the school year UNLESS he has started school as a beginner which is defined as starting 1st grade, not kindergarten.  So if you want to try cyber school, try kindergarten rather than plan on waiting a year and trying 1st grade.  Because if you decide to withdraw him after he starts 1st grade, you will have to report for 1st and 2nd grade rather than being able to just wait until 3rd.

Personally, I think if a young child is happy, he is likely engaged and learning something important.  I'd think trying to get the assignments done for the virtual charter school would just add to your stress.  It's hard keeping all the little ones safe and happy but it gets easier to do things with them as they get older.  And there is no harm in letting them play, learn, and observe with little direction while they are so young.  They won't be stunted or miss a window to learn something (that out of date concept keeps popping into people's decision making).

[Tjej]

I think that the problem you are facing isn't necessarily an education problem, and that posing a question to moms of many about how they manage might be a good place to get more advice about your specific struggles.

Off the top of my head -

Institute quiet time for everyone.  Practice starting with 1 minute and work your way up to 5, then 10, 15, 30... If you practice quiet time for a while they will get it and like it.  Especially in a busy house it gives everyone time and space to think and just be alone.  Once you have quiet time established and it is as long as you want it (or you just want to start working with the schooling) THEN try to do your 15 minutes with your 5yo during the quiet time.

Send the 3yo to preschool.  If you find a nice play-based one it could be a great break for you and a fun outlet for a busy mind and body.  Then you also have time to work on 5yo school during the preschool block.

Are you getting outside?  My 3yo behaves much better when he has had ample time outdoors.

I also haven't done k12, but have read about it on here and think that it might be easier to succeed at homeschooling if you went a different route.  Even something as simple as Five in a Row with a handwriting book and math workbook might well fulfill the requirements and be easier to do.  I'm thinking of going more that route myself, but still undecided (DD starts K in the fall homeschooling as well).

HTH

Tjej

[aishamama]

Hi Tjej, yes, you're right. This is exactly my problem. I was thinking to send the 3 y/o to a preschool for play time. I think that would be really helpful and he'd enjoy that.  Since we're moving to Pittsburgh, there are some really great places to take kids there. We have zero here; just two good outside parks and one indoor playground at the mall. That's it. So we're pretty excited to buy annual passes for unlimited visits. That will enable all of us to go for short periods of time, very often. 

We do get outside, but the weather has been really bad this winter. Nowadays it's a little better but then it's been raining so much and they've had the flu. Then today it snowed a little again. Usually I take the little ones to the park in the morning after dropping off the 5 y/o for preschool before returning home - that is when the weather is ok. 

I like your idea of quiet time. I will try it. I don't think much can be done about the 15 month old or the newborn.  These past few days I've been coming up with more creative ideas and some are working wonders. So I'm excited about those as well. Let's see if I can work out the kinks. 

[Tjej]

Sounds like the move will be a good one for you.  You might be surprised by the 15 month old - they can understand a lot and benefit from a little quiet time as well.  When my kids were smaller I was better about doing quiet time and I would use a CD to demarcate it.  So when the CD ended it was done.  They got it (and liked it) quite quickly.  Of course not every day is rainbows and unicorns, but for the most part it was GREAT.  And a toddler is actually especially the type of person *I* need a little quiet time from. ;)

Tjej

[lmonter]

Originally Posted by aishamama 

Thank you so much for your reply. What time do your children go to sleep? My 5 y/o can't take much after 7-8pm. He goes to bed at 8 and that's only because if he goes any earlier he gets up way too early. Then he disturbs the others.

Usually between 8-9:30.  Baby around 7-8:30, 2yo around 8-8:30, 4yo around 8-8:30, the 7yo gets to stay up until 9-9:30 some days.  Or if it's been one of those days, 8:30.  The staggering works because my 4yo and 7yo are in bunk beds in the same room, so they'll keep each other up giggling or wrestling and such, sometimes until 10pm.  If hubby's out of town I can still juggle them all down to bed myself with the staggering.  In fact, we started hs'ing when hubby was only home a few days a month and the babe was 6+mo - it was all on me.
 

Originally Posted by aishamama 

All week I've been trying to work with my 5 y/o with a few things, just handwriting and forming the letters correctly.  He is able to write but his handwriting isn't developed well or properly. Until now he's been very stubborn about he wants to write it how he wants to write it, which is sometimes backwards. Anyway, it's been a disaster this week. He won't pay attention or his siblings demand my attention ....just because...I'm sitting with the 5 y/o. The 15 m old cries like something bad happened and the 3 y/o isn't much different or doing naughty things.  

I don't know how other mothers are doing it with the others like this. I can't imagine what it'd be like to add a newborn to all of this who has to be fed/changed literally every 2-3 hours like clock work and then I'll have no sleep and without sleep I'll have no patience. .. I'm really rethinking all of this. I wish someone had some way of telling me how to fix and appease everyone or how they are able to do this. It isn't feeling so positive and it's bringing out the worst in me as a parent. I would rather keep a good relationship and give each special time rather than creating this stress for all of us.

Time fixes it.  Honestly, sounds like your 5yo is similar to my 7yo.  Some days he just doesn't want to practice handwriting because he still gets confused by "b" and "d" and so on.  I'm rather relaxed about it all, and figure we'll get to things when we get to them.  No point in stressing us all out more than usual just for a few worksheets, you know?  When the baby's born, seriously, think about just reverting to unschooling for a few months.  Learning about a new baby is education enough.  Heck, we got on a baby learning tangent for a while there.  My older ones were enthralled with the baby and how tiny all his little parts were, how the umbilical cord was attached inside to mommy, etc.  They helped me get diapers and burp cloths and stuff, and the 7yo has been becoming more proficient (little bit by little bit) in the kitchen.  At least now I can send him in there to make four sandwiches for us all for lunch.  :D
 

Originally Posted by onyxravnos 
Work boxes might help. Get those plastic storage boxes from walmart ( with the 4 or 5 compartments) and each night place the next days official school work in them. Try to make it things your older one can do mainly by themself or with minimal help most days. The younger ones can have their own boxes too with educational toys / coloring books / other that rotate in their box but ONLY come out during 'school'time.

Work boxes may help.  A visual reminder of what work the 5yo has left for the day (or week if you tweak it as such).  I love the concept, and I have a half-@$$ed version going on right now, but haven't been able to get organized enough to fully implement it.  I've seen groovy toddler workbox ideas and kid projects and such on several blog/websites.  Look up Tot School and so on.
 

Originally Posted by sleet76  
Add in the uncertainty of other little kids and a new baby---I think it will be setting yourself up for a very stressful and frustrating year.  It doesn't take a lot to keep on top of kindergarten--reading together, counting stuff, a little handwriting occasionally--you likely only need to do 2-4 hours of "work" each week, and that's only if you want to really WORK on kindergarten.  Anything you put off, he will learn so quickly and easily in the next few years that it really seems like kindergarten is a waste of time. 

Take it easy this first year, try out things to see what works for you.  You can't mess up kindergarten, really.  :)  It is like jumping off a bridge, I know, and it is hard to see where you will land.  But, for me at least, k12 for kindergarten my first year with babies around would be like trying to learn to swim with an anchor tied to my ankle.  Good luck in your decisions!  It won't be as hard as it sounds.  :)

Yup.
 

Originally Posted by aishamama 

Hi Tjej, yes, you're right. This is exactly my problem. I was thinking to send the 3 y/o to a preschool for play time. I think that would be really helpful and he'd enjoy that.

I like your idea of quiet time. I will try it. I don't think much can be done about the 15 month old or the newborn.  These past few days I've been coming up with more creative ideas and some are working wonders. So I'm excited about those as well. Let's see if I can work out the kinks.

Yup about the quiet time.  Our schedule is still so fragmented from naps that it's difficult for me to fully implement, but I know folks that totally swear by it. 
One thing to think about preschool wise.  It's typically only 2-3 hours a day, 2-3 days a week.  If you live right next door to the place, groovy.  If you have to drive, also keep in mind the challenge of getting all the kids dressed and buckled and into the car (even if they're asleep!) twice a day, and I've heard from several friends (even of singletons!) that you can't get a whole lot done during that block of preschool time.  Maybe it's just me and my kids who don't always go back to sleep or being bright and bushy rather than cranky after being interrupted sleep-wise, but yeah.  Something to keep in mind - I know there's no way I could've gotten all four of us dressed and out the door by 8:30am most week days.  I still don't even get a shower some days, and the babe just turned 1yo.  But not everyone has kids like mine, so it could just be me.

[aishamama]

lmonter, thank you so much for your reply. I also loved the work box idea. I need to do something about organization after we move. If I can make the little ones leave each other's alone, I'll be good. The baby right now loves loves loves o empty out drawers and throw things on the floor so maybe I'll have to put it in a closet.  I appreciate all of your suggestions.  I'll be very thankful when we get to stay put somewhere for any amount of time. Pittsburgh will just be a year then we have to move again, but for good I hope! =)

[etsdtm99]

don't have a ton of advice or anything, but i have a 5 yr old, almost 3 yr old, and a 6 mo old .. i am not planning to do much in the next year for my 5 yr old, and like others have mentioned i've got a great preschool lined up for my soon-to-be 3 yr old! so, thats my plan..

[lmonter]

Moving so much just means you'll have gotten rid of a ton of clutter, and will be that much more organized each time.  :)  My MIL moved like 12 times in 7 years or so at one point (FIL did contract work all over the place).  She loves to state she's awesome at moving after all that.  :D

[zonapellucida]

I am HSing a 4th and 7th graader with a 1, 2 and 4 still at home.  It is crazy but we do our work at night or really late in the day, or during nap time...