getting very frustrated with our negative cycle (5 yr old twin boys)

[seemfrog]

 I need some ideas for how to de-phase/un-phase us... the boys have been so reactive lately (a few months), getting upset immediately if they think something is not exactly the way they want it.  We try to give them lots of choices, give them lots of prior and advance notice when changing things... every little thing seems to set one or the other or both off.  They started kindergarten this year, newish school (since xmas), they are apart during morning kindy, then together the rest of the day at day care.  They have been constantly bickering about everything all day long, in the car, in the house, on our walks, etc

They are also not napping almost everyday (a change since xmas).

ds2 will say things like "you don't let us do anything! you are so stupid, you are the worst mom"

ds1 says stupid a lot too (a term they picked up in school?). 

DH and I have had some trouble not getting overly offended by the term, I have had to recognize things over the years that we have certain meanings attached to certain words or actions (spitting).  And that it is better to not have a strong reaction, giving it power, but just treat like any other thing, and we try to give them a phrase they could say instead "I am really disappointed!" or "I'm really frustrated right now"

I know they are learning to express themselves, but its so hard that we are back to this SO reactive thing, if I could sense them getting amped up, I could step in, but it will just be immediate "can I have an apple?" - honey, we are about to sit down for dinner, how about you have an apple after dinner? "ARGH! you are so stupid, I'm NEVER eating dinner!"

They are hitting each other more often too, same thing, reacting and hitting.

Also, this is a most of the time thing right now... they are wonderful smart funny cuddly happy kids in general, would love to get back to those qualities coming out more often and these other ones WAY less.

any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[ElliesMomma]

nm

Edited by ElliesMomma - 5/28/11 at 11:12pm

[Fuzzy Bee]

Sometimes you do have to limit choices. When my daughter starts acting up, we take away choices. Then we add them back very slowly.

[Callimom]

Wow that sounds like you have a lot going on.

I think my instinct would be to approach this in a few different ways.

First I would work at ways to reconnect as a family, and  reconnect them as siblings.

I homeschool now but my oldest went to K and I found it to be incredibly disruptive to our family relationships on a lot of levels and it was one of the reasons I decided to homeschool my twins and their younger sister. I would limit playdates, outside programs etc and find ways to spend quality time together until things feel more on track and connected. In our family that would be hiking, games nights, story times, special notes in their pockets, secret family codes etc. In my experience when one of my kids is sort of heading off the rails, it is often that our connection that needs some work - they need our relationship to be more of a compass point for them

I found the book Hold on to your Children really helpful with understanding what was happening and how I could bring it back to what I wanted our family life to look at.

I'd also work on addressing physical needs - ie picking them up from school with a snack ready to munch on the way home, putting out cut veggies and fruit before dinner to quell the hungries, balancing active and quiet times, lots of  outside time, a gentle, consistent bedtime routine etc.

Lastly  I would probably institute family meetings, and would work on a set of family rules which would define for everyone how you want to treat each other and live together. I'd use those rules to address unkind and disrespectful words.

Good luck!

Karen

[chaimom]

About the bickering and name calling.  I'm curious how you handle it?  You don't say.

I have a 5 yo dd right now she has waded into that territory recently, saying "What?!" in that sassy, demanding way kids do on TV, but we call her on it.  When she sasses her answer back, we say firmly, "Excuse me?  That's not how you talk to your parents.  Try again."  We don't ignore rude behavior, as I think it leads to more rude behavior.  Thank goodness, none of my kids ever name-call, but I wouldn't ignore it if they did.  I think they need to know it's inappropriate.

I also have twin boys-- they're 8.  And I will say that kindergarten was stressful for one of them.  It was loud, chaotic and it made him tired and hungry.  For the first couple of months he had half-a-dozen explosions right when he walked in the door.   We sent him, sometimes carried him, to his room to lay down.  We brought him a healthy snack and asked him to eat it and stay on his bed until he felt better.  After 20 minutes or so, he'd come down and be his regular happy self, although a little embarrassed by his earlier behavior. I had a lot of sympathy for that.  He was overwhelmed and he just needed to explode, then come down to earth again. Could that be what's happening with your guys?  Do they need time to decompress?  I'm not sure there's much you can do in those situations, other than feed them and get them to relax until they feel better.  I actually had a snack in my hand when I picked up my boys from school and I think it helped.

The twin bickering?  That's something we've almost always intervened in. Again, we think it escalates if left alone. Plus, I don't think 5 yo kids know all the nuances of social behavior, and we always talked through it, discussing how bickering feels to both sides.  Some consequences for bickering or being mean/rude to each other would be to make them play alone for a while (which they hated), or tell them they had to hug each other (they hated), or tell them they had to sit next to each other without talking for a period of time.  All that derailed the argument or bickering and united them in annoyance at me. :). My boys are very different from each other and have their own friends, but they really enjoy their brother time also, and I can honestly say they rarely fight or bicker.  It might be that it's just their personalities.  But I think it has something to do with that we always modeled and expected them to talk and interact respectfully with each other and if they didn't, well, they couldn't be together.  So they've figured it out.

PS... your boys might also like to be recognized when they're nice to each other. We started a marble jar when the boys were 5.  Each boy had a jar.  When I noticed them being kind or thoughtful, they would get a marble.  I would make a big deal out of it.  "Wow.  That was such a thoughtful thing to say."  "I'm impressed.  I'll bet that made your brother feel really special."  "I appreciate you feeding the dog without being asked."   When they filled the jars, they could choose a treat, like going for ice cream.  We filled the jar in a week the first time, but I stretched it to a month after that.  They boys loved the recognition and I think it created some positive energy. I know lots of people in GD are opposed to rewards or punishments, and as you can see, I'm not.  IMO, it's a way of helping establish a behavior-- and it worked well in my family. (Obviously the boys don't still have a marble jar!)

[seemfrog]

Thanks for all the responses and ideas!

Some moments I feel like we have some improvements, others... not so much.

My high stress levels (DH and I have a lot of financial stress right now) doesn't help, I'm not as patient as I should be, or creative, and I feel like I have to yell to get there attention when they are loudly involved in each other.  Work in progress.
 

Originally Posted by chaimom 

About the bickering and name calling.  I'm curious how you handle it?  You don't say.

I also have twin boys-- they're 8.  And I will say that kindergarten was stressful for one of them.  It was loud, chaotic and it made him tired and hungry.  For the first couple of months he had half-a-dozen explosions right when he walked in the door.   We sent him, sometimes carried him, to his room to lay down.  We brought him a healthy snack and asked him to eat it and stay on his bed until he felt better.  After 20 minutes or so, he'd come down and be his regular happy self, although a little embarrassed by his earlier behavior. I had a lot of sympathy for that.  He was overwhelmed and he just needed to explode, then come down to earth again. Could that be what's happening with your guys?  Do they need time to decompress?  I'm not sure there's much you can do in those situations, other than feed them and get them to relax until they feel better.  I actually had a snack in my hand when I picked up my boys from school and I think it helped.

The twin bickering?  That's something we've almost always intervened in. Again, we think it escalates if left alone. Plus, I don't think 5 yo kids know all the nuances of social behavior, and we always talked through it, discussing how bickering feels to both sides.  Some consequences for bickering or being mean/rude to each other would be to make them play alone for a while (which they hated), or tell them they had to hug each other (they hated), or tell them they had to sit next to each other without talking for a period of time.  All that derailed the argument or bickering and united them in annoyance at me. :). My boys are very different from each other and have their own friends, but they really enjoy their brother time also, and I can honestly say they rarely fight or bicker.  It might be that it's just their personalities.  But I think it has something to do with that we always modeled and expected them to talk and interact respectfully with each other and if they didn't, well, they couldn't be together.  So they've figured it out.

We do intervene in the bickering, but they seem to have deaf ears lately (especially in the car when I can't separate them or get to their level).  I try to talk to them separately, one that teasing hurts feelings, and the other that whining and reacting severely makes the other think its funny so that he keeps doing it...
 

Originally Posted by Karenwith4 

Wow that sounds like you have a lot going on.

I think my instinct would be to approach this in a few different ways.

First I would work at ways to reconnect as a family, and  reconnect them as siblings.

I homeschool now but my oldest went to K and I found it to be incredibly disruptive to our family relationships on a lot of levels and it was one of the reasons I decided to homeschool my twins and their younger sister. I would limit playdates, outside programs etc and find ways to spend quality time together until things feel more on track and connected. In our family that would be hiking, games nights, story times, special notes in their pockets, secret family codes etc. In my experience when one of my kids is sort of heading off the rails, it is often that our connection that needs some work - they need our relationship to be more of a compass point for them

I found the book Hold on to your Children really helpful with understanding what was happening and how I could bring it back to what I wanted our family life to look at.

I'd also work on addressing physical needs - ie picking them up from school with a snack ready to munch on the way home, putting out cut veggies and fruit before dinner to quell the hungries, balancing active and quiet times, lots of  outside time, a gentle, consistent bedtime routine etc.

Lastly  I would probably institute family meetings, and would work on a set of family rules which would define for everyone how you want to treat each other and live together. I'd use those rules to address unkind and disrespectful words.

Good luck!

Karen

I really appreciated this response, we immediately acted upon this advice, held a family meeting that was both entertaining (as they came up with their own rules as we took turns) and helpful.  We also started trying to reconnect as a family, spending more quality time together.  Honestly, we feel rushed, like there is never enough time to do things like clean the house or relax, but I'm trying to let that go a little (the anxiety) and have fun with my boys.  This weekend was great, lots of bonding. 

Also, we had been trying to keep their hunger/tired needs in mind, we always have a snack or two when we pick them up, and judging whether they need quiet reading time when we get home or outside activities.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Bee 

Sometimes you do have to limit choices. When my daughter starts acting up, we take away choices. Then we add them back very slowly.

 This is interesting, I'll continue to think about this.