Private vs. Public Schools for SN (cross-posted learning at school)--update

[Qestia]

My son is in Kindergarten in our local public school. He is on an IEP and receives speech and occupational therapy twice a week at the school. He has no formal diagnosis yet, they are looking into ADHD (which I'm skeptical of), I suspect an auditory processing disorder and/or sensory processing disorder. He's doing well at school academically and socially and seems happy, never says he doesn't want to go to school. It's considered a very good public school.

But I'm considering private school. The main reason is class size. His K has 24 kids in it (but they do have a full-time teacher's assistant). I'm looking at a school that has 12-14 kids per class. He definitely has harder times concentrating or hearing in loud, chaotic environments--and that does describe his current school pretty well. The private school I'm looking at was extremely quiet (too quiet, I felt... actually...)

As I say there's not a compelling reason to switch him now, he's happy... but on the other hand, I almost feel it might be better to move him to an environment I feel might suit his needs better while he's still happy, before he becomes discouraged or gets labelled negatively.

Has anyone else struggled with this kind of decision? What did you decide?

[Emmeline II]

We actually moved ds from a regular public school, in a very good district, with about 20 children per class to a charter with 25 children per class. Though class size was smaller, the regular public school was much larger (as an elementary school it's population is as large as ds' current K-12 school) and the chaos of it even got to me. We also like the administration and general philosophy of the charter school better than his previous school; ds is doing much better at his current school. He did not mind the move at all. What prompted the move was that ds was not doing well there, we were brushed off as to ds having actual disabilities as opposed to being "bad", and we had serious issues with the attitude of the principle.

As far as evaluations go, I recommend a developmental ped/team (we went here http://www.pediatrics.uthscsa.edu/centers/hope/services.asp), they can go more in depth than the school and they work for you. One thing that came out of ds' evaluation (who does have ADHD) is that he likely has CAPD; we are taking him to an audiologist for testing next month.

Edited by Emmeline II - 3/7/11 at 8:55pm

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

Well, I had written out a long reply but for some reason it wouldn't post! Boo! I'm copying this one before I submit!

Honestly, I would not move your son. He is happy and thriving. The stress of moving him my actually increase the behaviors of ADHD.

Also, does this private school have the rescources your son my need now and in the future? For example, if he has an auditory processing disorder, he may need speach therapy. With ADHD and SPD, he may benifit from occupational therapy. In three years when he needs to be reevaluated, does the private school do that? Will they be able to honor your son's IEP? Unfortunately, we have found that many private schools do not have these services in place, and they don't have to.

Also the quietness of the school would probably raise a red flag for me as well. Kids with ADHD, SPD, and APD, often need frequent breaks due to the fact that they can be overwhelmed with having to concentrate so hard on everything! For example, when ds1 was that age, he was allowed to go up to the OT room and play with some of the equipment he was familiar with to destress, with supervision of course. As he got older, he was allowed to take a walk around the school when he needed a break, with a timer so he knew when it was time to head back. He was given all sorts of things to do at his desk to help relieve some of the hyperactivity. He was allowed to stand at his desk. Ds2, who has attention issues, sits on an exercise ball at his desk or computer when he is having trouble concentrating. So, in a school where all the kids are sitting quietly, I'd be a bit concerned that maybe they aren't being given the outlets they need. Also, it might be more likely that your son would be labeled if he couldn't conform to those standards. Also, something to remember, is that as the kids move up in grades, the classrooms usually get much quieter.

[kbins]

a true private school (not a charter), one that does not take federal dollars, does not have to make accommodations for special needs. for instance, in our area, the Catholic schools do not have to accept special needs kids nor accept the state vaccination exemptions. The Attorney General has backed that position.

I would not want to put a child into a situation where they might need to be moved later, and have to pay to boot.

I was raised in Catholic schools and would have loved to have my children share the same experience. After nearly 4 years with my oldest there, I realized there was no way my second son would get close to what he needed and I couldn't "make" them accommodate his differences. We've had a great experience in public school and haven't had to battle at all for services.

[Linda on the move]

I think it really depends on the child and the school. My dd is 2e and goes to a wonderful private school that is perfect for her. The reason that it's perfect doesn't have anything to do with it being private. I looked into several schools for her, and none of the other privates would have been as good as public.

Our school requires a 3 day visit for kids who are considering transferring in, and then there are meetings -- both with and without the parent and the child to see if it is a match.

But I wouldn't move any child who was doing fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And don't buy into the idea of one "best" school. Different schools fit different kids better.

[Peony]

We went private because of DD1's needs, SPD, anxiety, and dyslexia. The public schools here do not offer OT for SPD so that was private therapy anyway, dyslexia is not recognized either, just a general reading issue or learning disability, the services they wanted to offer for that were practically nonexistant. We sought out a very small private school that addresses each child individually, not everything is perfect, it is christian when we are not, but that I live with for everything it brings DD1. While they have no special services for children like her, they gladly will allow private therapists into the school where the public school would not. DD1 get therapy there 4-5 days a week. There are mixed grades classrooms with one dyslexic ahead of her and one below so there is always person like her in her grade. And multiple children with ADHD or SPD. Tolerance is huge there, she is not made to feel different, the class embraces helping her. She went from hiding under the desks the first time she went in refusing to speak to now being a happy, confident 2nd grader who runs around the entire school, everyone adores her. She makes friends with all students in all the different grades, it really has opened up an entire world for her. We never tried the public school here, I talked to them multiple times about her but was never happy with the conversations or the experiences other parents have have with their children that were similar to her, I refused to put her there knowing she would would fail so I kept her at home until 1st grade when I found this school. So it is different from you guys, she was happy at home, and would of gladly stayed but I needed something else. 

[Qestia]

A sad update.

I visited DS's current classroom yesterday for the first time. (Bad mom, I should have earlier.) I was shocked and unprepared to see the social problems he is having--it have never been mentioned by him or his teachers and as I said he always seemed happy to go to school. OTOH the items on his IEP--being sensory seeking for example--were not in evidence--though I have seen them plenty of other times.

But he seemed incredibly socially isolated. He started the morning reading a book by himself in the corner while all the other kids did their free-choice activities in groups. At snack time he tried to sit in a free chair and a boy at the table told him he couldn't sit there. At gym he was supposed to get in a line with the other kids and they wouldn't let him in. Later in gym there were not enough of an item for everyone (looked like they were just short one) DS didn't get one. In every case of being shut out he walked away sadly and disconnected from the group, was hard to get called back. Is this what the teacher thinks is impulsivity or distractibility? Do they think he's walking away for the heck of it and not see that it's a reaction to hurts?

Obviously we need to work on helping him deal with these situations.

I'm also now doubly interested in checking out some private schools, a much smaller class size or montessori, can't see these situations being tolerated in either environment. Poor guy, I had no idea.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Qestia 

He started the morning reading a book by himself in the corner while all the other kids did their free-choice activities in groups.

This one wouldn't bother me. My DD often chooses to read rather than interact, but she's happy so it's OK.

At snack time he tried to sit in a free chair and a boy at the table told him he couldn't sit there. At gym he was supposed to get in a line with the other kids and they wouldn't let him in. Later in gym there were not enough of an item for everyone (looked like they were just short one) DS didn't get one. In every case of being shut out he walked away sadly and disconnected from the group, was hard to get called back. Is this what the teacher thinks is impulsivity or distractibility? Do they think he's walking away for the heck of it and not see that it's a reaction to hurts?

WOW!!! This would make me fighting mad. None of this behavior would be considered OK at either the public school my kids attended last year or the private school they go to this year.  The "not being allowed to sit in an empty chair" thing was considered a form of bullying at public school. At first, I thought the policy seemed a little extreme. But it was explained to me that kids would end up wondering around, not being allowed to sit anyway, so they made a school wide policy of not *saving* seats.

The kids didn't let him in the line and the teacher didn't do anything?   

[Qestia]

RE Reading--I LOVED seeing him sitting quietly with a book. It was just in context of the other things I saw that made me think it wasn't all good that he was doing that instead of interacting. And his teacher told me he used to wander more aimlessly in the mornings until she suggested he just get a book so now he does that. Based on what you said and what I saw--maybe the wandering was at least partially a result of getting excluded/not allowed to sit in empty chairs.

about the line no, the teacher didn't stop it or tell them to make room--he just got reprimanded for not sitting down.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Qestia 

I'm also now doubly interested in checking out some private schools, a much smaller class size or montessori, can't see these situations being tolerated in either environment. Poor guy, I had no idea.

These issues are not confined to public school. They could occur anywhere, at any school--public, charter, private, small, large, Montessori--you read enough threads on this board you'll see complaints about every type of school. It's just something to keep in mind when looking at other schools. It is the people, the teachers and administrators, that allow these things to be tolerated; small class size or educational philosophy label alone will not prevent it from happening.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Qestia 

about the line no, the teacher didn't stop it or tell them to make room--he just got reprimanded for not sitting down.

So a child told him that he couldn't sit down and then he got in trouble for not sitting down?

Am I understanding that right? If so, I'd be

[beenmum]

Auditory processing disorders are hard to treat. The size of the class is only relative. 14 loud newly introduced kids can make more of an infact then 24 quieter children who know him and play with him.

[karne]

While I understand the impulse, a private school is not necessarily going to be better-it may, or may not be, but class size is not necessarily going to change things for your ds.  First, the reading of the book at the beginning of the day sounds like a good coping mechanism for feeling overwhelmed.  Being socially isolated can have a number or reasons, but there is often a subtle interplay between kids that sets up this dynamic.  I can't remember if you've said whether your ds gets any sort of social skills intervention or not?  That would be the place to start addressing concerns, and looking at your son's skills around interacting with peers.

The word of warning about private schools, coming from someone who has done both public and private, is that the private school is not under obligation to address your son's needs, and may not have qualified staff to do so in any case.  My experience is that the ps has more familiarity and resources to help children.

[beachcomber]

I'm so sorry to hear your little guy is going through this isolation at school. His teacher needs to help him integrate more by speaking to the class as a whole about friendship, helping, sharing and community. It really bothers me that the teacher didn't step in to help him in the line or encourage other kids to share in the gym activity. That really makes me angry, actually. It's a huge part of why my daughter will be starting kindergarten in a private school this fall. It's a school that has a reputation for working well with SN, especially kids on the Autism Spectrum. After our classroom visit, I was very encouraged by the small class size (it'll never go beyond 15), the fact that the classes stay together for a minimum of 2 years (k/1, 2/3 and 4/5/6) and that the SN kids were really a part of the group.

[buttercup]

 You should definitely educate yourself about the privates schools in your area, but start talking to other parents with special needs children in your area to gather info of their experiences with schools and teachers, as well as dealing with advocating for your child's rights.

He has an IEP.  The IEP is the mechanism the school and teachers are required to follow when addressing his education.  If you feel their are issues, you have the right to call a meeting requesting the attendance of everyone involved in his education - Kindergarten teacher, therapists and the principal.  Have them explain to you each item on the IEP and what it means.  Have them explain to you the objectives and where he is in reaching the objective.  If the IEP has a goal where he is to initiate or interact with other children or adults a certain percentage of time during the day, then ask exactly when these moments occur and what the teacher and aides do to facilitate this.  As the therapists what they do when they work with him and if they provide any guidance to the teachers.  Tell them that you know your son is happy, but explain your concerns.  You are his advocate.

Once you have had this exchange and you still feel uncomfortable, then you can relocate him.  But as the previous posters have mentioned, if you pull him out of the public schools system and place him in a facility that does not accept IDEA Part B funding, then they are not required to follow an IEP.  They may have their own assessment tool to monitor his progress, but you may not have the rights of requesting modification of his educational plan as you have when he is enrolled in the public school system.  You simply need to make sure that where you are placing him comes highly recommended by other parents and your mommy instincts says "this is the place."

I do want to mention that your son has rights under the ADA.  Where he has access to the services that any other child has in that facility.  He can not be denied access due to his disability.

Additionally, the Office of Special Education Programs under the US DOE provides grant funds to non-profit organizations across the country called Parent Information Training (PTI) centers.  Every state has a PTI.  They educate parents on their child's rights in the school system and can help guide you through the process, especially re: IEPs and how to make sure it is properly created for your son.  This is the main website in case any other poster needs to find their local PTI:  http://www.parentcenternetwork.org/national/aboutus.html

The PTI in my area has some great online tutorials about IDEA and IEPS.  It also has one about collaborative communication with your school:  http://www.fndfl.org/Tutorials.asp

Good luck,

Jenni