Have we ever discussed the Hayward study: unvaxed vs vaxed dogs?

[Mirzam]

The study was conducted on Great Danes and Beagles and found that:

The vaccinated group developed significant levels of autoantibodies against: fibronectin, laminin, DNA, albumin, Cytochrome C, transferrin, cardiolipin, collagen. The responses varied among individual animals, probably reflecting genetic differences.  The clinical significance of those autoantibodies remains to be determined, but speculation must be that something in the vaccines is one of the etiologies (in the genetically susceptible dog) of such diseases as Cardiomyopathy, Lupus Erythematosus, Glomerulonephritis, etc.  

 

The hypotheses tested included:

 

Vaccinated compared with unvaccinated Great Danes have a significantly higher serum concentration of antibodies directed against their own tissues; a significant higher serum concentration of TSH and lower concentrations of T3 and T4 hormones; a significantly higher proportion of dogs with a history or clinical signs of an autoimmune disease, particularly hypothyroidism.

 

Autoimmune diseases in dogs are clinically similar to those in humans. We hope that Veterinary and Medical Schools will continue and expand these preliminary research studies.  Our companion dogs are crashing all around us and maybe we are now finding one of the sources of the problems.  It has been so easy to point fingers at breeders but they may not be entirely at fault.  Let us continue this important research to help our future generations of dogs and possibly children.

 

The Hayward Study

[Treece]

 I don't know if it's been discussed but WHY aren't doctor$ and the CDC and other regulator$ looking at thi$?

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Treece 

 I don't know if it's been discussed but WHY aren't doctor$ and the CDC and other regulator$ looking at thi$?

Exactly, why isn't this being studied? Judging by the response to this post, there isn't much interest.  Maybe because the study was in dogs?

[BeckyBird]

I like the post :) 

We recently bought a pair of goats, and I was researching goat care. One breeder in particular used to vaccinate her herd, because "that's what you do". I forget why she stopped, but she noticed improved health of her herd once she stopped vaccinating. This is just one breeder's experience, and I am going to see if there are any more out there. (I'm sure there are, since I've only looked at a few different goat sites.)

We can learn a lot from animals, can't we?

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

We can learn a lot from animals, can't we?

We certainly can, we are ourselves animals after all. 

FWIW, I am the guardian of a completely unvaxed dog, who is strong, healthy and exhibits none of the oh so common behavioral (aside from being a dog) and health issues, that many, many dog owners experience and assume is par for the course. 

[boheime]

It was because of issues in one of our dogs that I originally began researching vaccines. After what I learned, I had to go search for information about vacines in humans. I hate the issues our dog had, but because of them, we learned about vaccines before having kids.

[Mirzam]

The point I am making in posting about this study is, if vaccinations are creating autoantibodies in dogs, are they not likely to be doing the same in humans and why is this not a topic of research?

[sosurreal09]

WELL I SURE THINK THEY ARE!

MY DD had reactions that the Drs "refuse to admit" are reactions! First and foremost my healthy baby, after her first vax (2 m/o) (wasn't going to vax but stupidly was talked into it) turned into a horribly ill DD. She was writhing in pain. No one knew why (not even me) Well she had "unseen" blood in her stool. Dr's said "it's intolerances" I kept vaxing and she kept getting worse. I stopped eating everything except a few varieties of veggies and beans (literally), STILL had the pain and the blood. They said "her intestines are swollen and irritated and bleeding" OK?!?! Spcialist after specialist "Well IDK what is causing it, but don't worry about it, she'll grow out of it"

Also want to mention CONSTANTLY sick, literally like everyday. Virus after virus, sinus infections, roseolla, always sick for months straight. We were *lucky* if she went a week not being sick.

Again Drs could not explain it. "On one hand her immune system is over-active b/c of her "intolerances", but on the other hand she's EBF and not in daycare but keeps getting sick constantly, which indicates it's underactive or compromised"

I was beside myself with grief months and months of a sick baby in pain, it was HELL.

She always had a fever of 100 or more. Had a fever of 104 maybe 20x in her short life. Non-stop sick.

Well they told me we had to vax her sooner for more protection and we had to knock her out and do an endoscopy and colonoscopy to find out WHAT is wrong. (6 m/o at this point)

I kept delaying the tests, I was too afraid to knock out my child. I was convinced it was an intolerance, I just had to nail it.

Well I stopped vaxing her at 9 m/o. They said I was nuts she NEEDED it more than other kids, but I refused. I said "I have researched it and felt it was in her best interest not to vax anymore"

3 months later she stopped being sick all the time. We again tested her stools b/c I ordered it this time (she had already had many 50+ stools tested) and 2 weeks worth of stools showed NO BLOOD.

Since then no blood and never sick (couple colds here and there) until I was scared and had her JUST finish HIB, that was 2 months ago she has practically been sick 2 months straight...2 ear infections, a sinus infection, bronchitis, and a virus SINCE the vax...

I will not make that mistake ever again. No more vax EVER.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

WELL I SURE THINK THEY ARE!

The really scary thing is, according to Dr Glickman, every single one of the vaccinated dogs had autoanitbodies. If the same is true for humans, then every single vaccinated person has some degree of autoantibodies. That to me is a very unpleasant thought and should be investigated as the implications are monumental. 

[sosurreal09]

Right they SHOULD be testing for this, but they won't the don't actually care about our safety. Money, money, money....

[newmum35]

..

will be reading this tomorrow, sounds interesting thank you for posting :)

[sosurreal09]

wanted to add the period she wasn't vaxed was 7 months where she only had the 3 colds.

[Damien]

FYI, the page listed in the original post links to a page at Purdue's website that no longer exists, so you have to use the Wayback Machine to see it:

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20040708200556/http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/gdhstudy.htm

[Arduinna]

Thanks for posting it, off to read.

If you look around pet forums and pet health books vaccination in pets is a pretty hot topic and has been for awhile. We talked about it a lot more here about 4+ years ago and it seems to have slowed down on MDC but elsewhere it's still a popular topic. In the last 40 years pets have been even more over vaccinated than humans have.

[SilverMoon010]

I don't have dogs but I do have cats, and I'm glad they are researching this on animals.  Very interesting.

After the birth of our son, and after all of my research on vaccines, I was then presented with the vet wanting to give my cat her routine vaccinations. In the past, I normally went along with it, but now that I'm older and wiser and did my research, I have been refusing them.  My cats are indoors and there would be no reason they need those shots.  My older cat, who is 13 years old, always received his routine immunizations, because back then, I wasn't as informed. I thought that was the right thing to do.  I have three cats in total and my oldest one, 13 years old, has diabetes. I need to give him insulin twice a day. Could it be from his immunizations?   Maybe. I will never know for sure. However, I do know they are much healthier without them.  None of them have received their shots in years and I don't plan on it either.

[Treece]

Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 

I don't have dogs but I do have cats, and I'm glad they are researching this on animals.  Very interesting.

After the birth of our son, and after all of my research on vaccines, I was then presented with the vet wanting to give my cat her routine vaccinations. In the past, I normally went along with it, but now that I'm older and wiser and did my research, I have been refusing them.  My cats are indoors and there would be no reason they need those shots.  My older cat, who is 13 years old, always received his routine immunizations, because back then, I wasn't as informed. I thought that was the right thing to do.  I have three cats in total and my oldest one, 13 years old, has diabetes. I need to give him insulin twice a day. Could it be from his immunizations?   Maybe. I will never know for sure. However, I do know they are much healthier without them.  None of them have received their shots in years and I don't plan on it either.

You know, that's a good point about diabetes. The populations that vaxes are pushed most heavily on are the one's with the highest rates of diabetes. Of course, diet plays a role, but I wonder.....

[miriam]

Veterinarians have known for a long time that a dog/animal cannot get too many vaccines at one time or they could suffer from vaccinosis.  http://www.kingdomcavaliers.com/vaccinosis.html

http://www.doglogic.com/vaccineinfo.htm

Why this cannot be extrapolated to the human population since so much drug and disease research is based on animal study frameworks is beyond me.