Mods please erase

[jenniferadurham]

I'm done debating over my decisions that I think are right or wrong. I am DEEPLY sorry I ever started this thread. There are tons of things that I could explain....but its not worth it. 

BTW, DD said she doesnt even know why she asked for a bra. Shes not hurting, or uncomfy under her clothes. I know my DD better than anyone, and she is NOT ready for a bra. mentally or physically. End of story. I dont CHECK her every 3 days...bad choice of words obviously.

I'm just done with everyone responding. I'm over it.

Edited by jenniferadurham - 3/10/11 at 10:32am

[TCMoulton]

Honestly, it sounds like your daughter really wants to start wearing a bra and since her nana offered to buy one she happily accepted. I don't see how she did this to hurt you, just trying to make her granddaughter happy. I would let her keep the bra, and if it is really important to you, take her shopping this week so that you can share picking out another one as well. There's no rule that a girl has to wait to need a bra before she can wear one & it sounds like your daughter is ready.
FWIW my mom bought my 8 year old two pretty training bras this past summer & they both had a great time shopping together for them. Doesn't mean that I can't do the same with her, just means that she was comfortable enough with grandma to shop for something personal & that's all that really matters.

[LionessMom]

yeah she shouldnt have done that. but i bet it was bc your DD was asking for one. it is not like she thought to herself.. "yeah i am gonna steal her thunder" she just bought her granddaughter something she wanted. i know the first bra is a big deal. and i bet your dd knew you werent going to do it right away and she was excited and knew she could talk grand,a into it. calm down a little. you didnt have to give it back. you could have kept it till you were ready for her to have it.

obviously i dont knwo any background about your xmil, but it seems to me that DD wanted something and talked grandma into it. and you are mad at the grandma for being a grandma......

[littlest birds]

I think she overstepped boundaries but she may not have realized it at all.  She may not have thought it was a big deal, and who knows what your dd was saying about the matter.  Maybe she's been really wanting a bra since you talked and is excited and just saw nana as an opportunity to ask for what she wanted.

I am imagining that you were seeing the day you go shopping for a bra as a special occasion and rite of passage.  However, not everyone would give it that much weight.  I do not.  We have quite a few hand-me-down bras from our oldest in the two younger girls' closet.  I let dd11 know they were there about a year ago and told her she could help herself to them whenever she wanted them.  We have also received a couple of hand-me-downs from our friends with teens for our developing preteen.  She is quite developed now and possibly even in an A cup, and she wears the bras about half the time, and has never yet gone shopping with mom for new bra.  It's just clothes to me. 

Another way it is casual:  I see a lot of girls that are much younger wearing bra-style undershirts just because it seems cool to them to do so.  They are really cropped undershirts but they like to call them bras.  Our youngest loves to play at that since she has older sisters who wear bras.  She's wear swimsuit tops or whatever.

I totally understand you taking this in that way but I can equally see it not occurring to grandma that it would be a big deal.  And I suppose I would be inclined to not see it as "big time" even if it messed up your plans she didn't know about.  If your dd talked to nana about wanting a bra as if it was not a very big deal, or maybe even told grandma it was okay with you for her to get one because the way you said made her think she had permission, then it is very understandable that the boundary would not seem to exist.  Your dd may not have realized it was a big deal to you to do that with her personally, and only gotten the message that getting a bra was fine "whenever she was ready."

I would not feel right returning it to her.  I feel like her action, even if taken with a lack of understanding, was completely harmless and not worth throwing up in her face like that.  Please understand that this is just my perspective and this is based on my feelings about the relative unimportance of bra shopping to me--combined with what little information you have shared.  For all I know there is a history of issues with things like this where she steps in too far without communicating with you, or other problems that give extra meaning to her actions. 

[enkmom]

I am close to having grandchildren myself, and I can see myself buying it if my granddaughter asked me to.  Not because I wanted to "stick it" to her mom, or steal her thunder, but just because she asked.  I am on the side of MIL didn't know how important this was to you.

If it isn't too late, I would ask the ex not to return it to his mom and just explain to her next time you saw her that you were really looking forward to taking your daughter shopping for her first bra. Why punish your daughter for something her grandma did, probably by accident?

[Snowflake777]

I'm probably not qualified to comment (not a pre-teen mother yet), but I think you're overreacting.

I can totally understand how you would see buying your DD's first bra as a special mother-daughter occasion, and why you would be upset to miss out on that. I get that. Still, I don't think it's really fair for you to expect your ex-MIL to know you felt that way. You said yourself that she bought it because your DD wanted it. It's not like she specifically took her bra-shopping, right? She probably didn't give it a second thought, and I can't say I blame her. At worst I think it was a bit thoughtless, not malicious.

I also think that giving it back to her is way OTT and likely to create unnecessary drama.

[karne]

I don't think that you should take what amounts to a gift from your ex-MIL to your dd, away from your dd.  This strikes me as especially true when you are really struggling with what feels like a lack of respect toward you.  It's not respectful to take your dd's belongings.

I get how you feel like this is an important time, and a rite of passage that you wanted to travel with your dd.  I think that if you  over react here, this will be the memory your create for your dd.  You can choose to create your own positive memories by asking your dd what she would like, possibly go shopping together....something that feels good to her.  It's a no-win to make this a you vs. you MIL situation, with your dd caught in the middle.  There are going to be many firsts as your dd enters puberty, and she's more likely to share them with you if you are pretty calm and level headed.  

[jenniferadurham]

Tons of info I left out about ex MIL from years past. It doesn't apply directly to this topic, so I didn't include any of it. To somewhat clue y'all in...when DD was little(under a year) we(exH and I, him mainly) had to cut her out of our lives bc she would do things that were not her place and over step boundaries. She's a whack job...literally. She used to stalk us, which is another thread LOL. So Without getting totally into the past, that's where I'm coming from. It's not like this is the first time she's done something that wasn't her place...I mean, even her own son said that this was out of line.

My biggest point to the story I guess is that she ISN'T ready for a bra. She has the tinyest little hump, if you can even call it that. It literally looks like a swollen ant bite. That is my frustration...it was bought without it needing to be bought. We don't let our children grow up faster than they need to...bras, makeup in public, adult music, boyfriends, etc. She's not even nine yet, and she needs to be a KID. And just bc she asks for something doesn't mean she should to get it. Same thing with candy and kids...just bc they want it, does it mean that we need to buy it for them?

I can see your point about exMIL not knowing or thinking that it was something I was looking forward to...I get that. She's not a mind reader. However....she could have made a quick phone call and asked. THAT would have saved a lot of drama. Shes pretty big into stirring pots and creating situations that don't need to be created.

And someone had mentioned that it's disrespectful of ME to take away DD's belongings/gifts....I am the mother, and if I feel like she shouldn't have something for whatever reason..then thats my job. Has nothing to do with disrespect...I respect her privacy and her wants/needs...when they are valid. Not...'hey mom, I need to wear this skirt that shows half of my butt bc everyone else is doing it' We talk about everything like I mentioned before. And she knows why I take something or don't let her have something. I never just take it away and say 'bc I said so'. I explained to her what a bra is used for, and she understood. It's to help with rubbing/irritation at the start and then holding those bad boys in later in life. Lol she plays with my bras at the house and dress up and I'm fine with that, but she knows that she's still a kid and that she doesn't need to grow up faster than she is...she has her ENTIRE life to be an adult.


I'm not trying to sound rude to PP's...and thank you for your input...I did ask after all. But I just feel that it was overstepping what she did. And when I told my DH..he just about flipped his roof....he is more of a father to her than her own dad. My mom had a good comeback to hearing about this...wearing a bra and makeup and trying to look older than she is, will attract older boys...and that WILL NOT happen right now or in the short years to come. She needs to be focusing on God and how to live her life as a Christian, not what boy likes her.

[MusicianDad]

Just because she just has buds, it doesn't mean she doesn't need a bra. For many girls, having a bra or an undershirt helps protect the area (which can be very sensitive at this stage) from rubbing against her shirt. 

I do still think you are overreacting and do agree with most of the PPs. No you don't have to give a child everything she wants, but you admit that she is starting to develop which means her getting a bra is not going to force her into maturing faster then she already is. It's entirely possible that your DD asked her nana to buy it because she knew you wouldn't. Wanting a bra when you're starting to develop is valid.

[karne]

Originally Posted by jenniferadurham 

 i check her every three days or so, and when we think she needs a training bra we will go get one. 







 

I'm confused.  Who is the "we" who decides on your daughter's underwear?  Because it sounds like your dd had an opinion on the subject, but the reality is that you won't allow her to have a bra.  Who decides that your dd's wants and needs are " valid", as you said?  I'm not hearing your dd's voice in this conversation, except to be told that what she's experiencing isn't OK.

Also, I'm lousy at the multi-quoting function, but the piece about equating wearing a training bra with all of the ills you and your mother feel are associated is just flawed on so many levels.  I think you're operating out of a fear basis here.

You posted in the pre-teen/teen section, so I was assuming you wanted to hear from those of us parenting kids of this age.  Your dd is going to go through puberty on her own timetable.  She may, for her own reasons, want a bra, and her feelings could be very different from yours on this matter.  I don't know what your relationship is like, except that you say that you have excellent communication.  If so, do you not look at your dd for who she is; a nine y/o in a very tender state of development, and not a little girl looking to attract older boys or grow up too fast?  She's the same lovely daughter, whether she wears a training bra or not.

I fear that this issue has little to do with your dd, and a lot more to do with power and control issues of the adults in her life.  

[ssh]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

Just because she just has buds, it doesn't mean she doesn't need a bra. For many girls, having a bra or an undershirt helps protect the area (which can be very sensitive at this stage) from rubbing against her shirt. 

I do still think you are overreacting and do agree with most of the PPs. No you don't have to give a child everything she wants, but you admit that she is starting to develop which means her getting a bra is not going to force her into maturing faster then she already is. It's entirely possible that your DD asked her nana to buy it because she knew you wouldn't. Wanting a bra when you're starting to develop is valid.

This. Also wearing a training bra is not like wearing makeup or provocative clothes at a young age. It's a comfort issue.

I have a 5 year old DD2 and a 24 year old DD1. You may think buying your DD's first bra is a big deal, but I don't remember buying my DD1 her first one. I also have 2 granddaughters, ages 4 and 13 months. I wouldn't think it was a big deal buying one of them a bra when she is older. I usually look at buying them clothing as saving my DD1 money.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by jenniferadurham 

My biggest point to the story I guess is that she ISN'T ready for a bra. She has the tinyest little hump, if you can even call it that. It literally looks like a swollen ant bite. That is my frustration...it was bought without it needing to be bought. We don't let our children grow up faster than they need to...bras, makeup in public, adult music, boyfriends, etc. She's not even nine yet, and she needs to be a KID. And just bc she asks for something doesn't mean she should to get it. Same thing with candy and kids...just bc they want it, does it mean that we need to buy it for them?

...I respect her privacy and her wants/needs...when they are valid.

I feel completely differently on this topic than you do. One of my DDs needed a bra rather young, and one didn't. The one that didn't need a bra wanted a bra, and therefore got a bra. I only say no to my kids if I have a REALLY good reason, and *to me* there isn't a good reason to say no to what sort of underwear my child wants to wear.  And the whole thing that you are checking her every three days to see if she needs a bra sounds really, really weird to me. I can't picture that. Are you actually looking at her naked nipples? Did you tell her that her breasts look like ants bits? 

And saying that you can't have what you want until you have bigger boobs is just messed up. Some women never really get breasts. Nothing in life should be tied to the size of one's boobs.

I think you are the one creating the drama.  Your DD wanted a bra, you wouldn't get one for her, and now she has one. Making an even bigger deal of it isn't going to help the situation.

<<..I respect her privacy and her wants/needs...when they are valid.>>

You gotta pick one. either you respect her privacy OR you decide when it's valid. You don't get to do both. It just doesn't work. Right you, you are creating a lot of drama with your DD. Leave grandma out of it. Take her shopping and let her try on lots of different styles, and let her find what she likes. Then buy it. Then take her someplace that is fun for her, like Starbucks and just chat. Building your relationship with your DD.  And DONT go into the dressing room with her!!!!  let her just try some on and see for herself what she looks like in them and let her make her own choices.

(BTW, as the mom of 2 teen girls, I've bought so many bras that I don't see bra shopping as all that interesting. You may have lots of issues with grandma, but cut her some slack on this one.)

Originally Posted by karne 
I fear that this issue has little to do with your dd, and a lot more to do with power and control issues of the adults in her life.  

Agreed.
 

[Snowflake777]

Originally Posted by jenniferadurham 

Tons of info I left out about ex MIL from years past. It doesn't apply directly to this topic, so I didn't include any of it. To somewhat clue y'all in...when DD was little(under a year) we(exH and I, him mainly) had to cut her out of our lives bc she would do things that were not her place and over step boundaries. She's a whack job...literally. She used to stalk us, which is another thread LOL. So Without getting totally into the past, that's where I'm coming from. It's not like this is the first time she's done something that wasn't her place...I mean, even her own son said that this was out of line.

It could well be that your MIL has a long history of overstepping boundaries, but I can't see that this particular incident is an example of that. Sometimes when we already have issues with a person, we end up assuming the worst of them even when it probably isn't the case. I know I've done it!

I think you owe your DD an apology. Even if your MIL was in the wrong, there was still no need to involve your DD in the drama, especially over something that's probably already a sensitive issue for her. You could have just let her keep it, then had a calm word with your exDH in private. Now you've put her in an awkward position by involving her in adult politics.

[Snowflake777]

And for the record, I had training bras ("crop tops" as we call them in Australia) from around 9 years old, long before there was anything to fill them with. My friends did too. You don't need to physically check her (that would have made me REALLY uncomfortable at that age!), just follow her cues and get her some when she wants them, which is now.

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by jenniferadurham 


So what is your opinion on this? How would you react if this were to happen to you?

 

My opinion on this is that taking away grandma's gift from your daughter was not the right decision. This put the disagreement between the two grow-ups on the shoulders of a child, which was an unnecessary thing to do. If I was your daughter, I would be:

a) hurt that I lost a present, while *I* did NOTHING wrong.

b) felt guilty that I caused two people I love to argue

Your daughter did not deserve to feel either of those two things, because, well... she did nothing wrong.

Do I get the desire of a mom to go bra shopping with her daughter? Yes. I do. But the question I have is -  why did you make your daughter pay for your disappointment?..

Your second question is what would I do.

I would communicate my hurt and disappointment to my ex, and appreciate his support on the issue. I would bring this up with his mom, while my daughter is not around, so that she does not have a misplaced feeling of shame for accepting the training bra. I would swallow my pride, and let my kid enjoy her gift guilt free. That would be putting her feelings first.

[Terrilein]

I'm gonna agree with Snowflake on this one. Your MIL may be in the habit of overstepping boundaries, but your dd made the call on this one. She was honest and open with her grandmother. It would really strain the relationship between your dd and her nana if she can't tell her nana what she really wants and her nana may not fulfull even if she knew. From dd's perspective it may seem like you've got impossible rules that only you know about. They're being set up to fail and give you reason to be upset. Let it go. It's just underwear.

If it had been me, it wouldn't have bothered me. My dd is 9 and wears crop tops even though she isn't even budding yet. It's a modesty issue for her. She made a request for crop tops and we just bought them. It could have been with her aunt, her grandma or maybe even her father. It wouldn't have phased me. Now, when dd gets her first period . . . that'll be a different story.

[4evermom]

It wouldn't even occur to me that buying a first training bra was a special mother/daughter thing and I'm quite confident I'd feel the same way if I had a daughter...

I remember in middle school, it was quite obvious what kind of underwear the girls were wearing under their white school shirts.  It was definitely considered weird to wear an undershirt no matter the stage of physical development.  So I'd follow the child's cue on whether she feels it's appropriate.

[HollyBearsMom]

You daughter wanted a bra, you were "monitoring" the situation so I assume that you were ok with her wearing a bra eventually (but only when *you* saw fit), your daughter told her grandmother she wanted a bra so the grandmother bought it for her.  I don't see the issue? 

Training bras are just that, no breasts required.  I had a training bra before I had breast buds but I really wanted one so my mom got me one. Sounds like your daughter wanted one and you didn't listen but he grandmother did. Can I ask if you been upset if she had bought her pajamas? jeans? underwear?

Breaks my heart that you took it away from her and made her return it. How humiliating for her.  You have just shown her that you don't respect her decisions and you don't trust her instincts but that her grandmother does.

[whatsnextmom]

This is so not a big deal. So grandma bought the girl a bra. The girl ASKED for it. She is GRANDMA and they do tend to buy things that kids ask for. Plus, training bras are more for emotional comfort than actual need. Whether your DD physically needed one or not SHE felt she needed one and you weren't responding to that need. Perhaps that is what you are really upset at.... the fact that your daughter went behind your back, not that grandma did something nice. Your DD is growing up and you aren't going to be able to control everything in her life. If you want her to trust you and keep talking to you about this stuff, you need to listen and respond.... and sorry, my DD would have DIED if I asked to look at her chest every 3 days when she was starting to develop! It's HER body. Let her decide when she needs a bra.

I've been bra shopping with a daughter and really, it's not big whoop. Don't stress about manufactured milestones. You have the opportunity for MILLIONS of special moments with your child. Go take her on a special hike and be inspired by some spectacular view, let her crawl into bed with you and giggle over silly stories late at night, surprise her with an all green meal on St. Patrick's day.... don't cause a fued over underwear! 

[VisionaryMom]

I would be upset. I think that buying a bra as a rite of passage is pretty commonly accepted. If you look at historical literature, it's a really, really common scene. I've seen magazine articles, commercials, etc. about the experience of buying a first bra as a mother-daughter thing.

My mother isn't allowed alone with my children, but she does try to do this - *insisting* that she buy DS his first bicycle, though she knew that was a big deal for DH (and to be honest, she doesn't really care about my children). If we mention that we're getting a gift, she runs out and gets it (which is fine, we just mention things we're not planning to get these days). I know that at some point she will say that she wants to take DD shopping for a bra, and I'll just flat-out refuse. So, yeah, if there is a history of this kind of "thunder-stealing" behavior, it would make me angry.