"I think you're probably doing her a disservice by assuming it's a decision she made lightly. I have a friend who is opposed to circ, fought with her husband about it for 20 weeks, and eventually their little boy ended up circed at a week or two old. and it was one of the hardest things she's gone through as a mom, but it was circ or lose her marriage, and the kid probably would have still ended up circed."
I suppose I should add that her husband is Jewish, and it's the one time I've ever seen her make a compromise for him. it really was a point of their relationship ending, plus circ, or just circ. she ultimately made the decision to save her marriage and consent to having it done, but it was probably one of the hardest experiences of her life. There's not standing up to your husband, and there's fighting tooth and nail but deciding in the end that your marriage is more important and that having his parents break up over the issue of his circ is possibly going to do as much damage to the baby as getting circed, especially since the dad would have taken him to the pedi and gotten him circed anyway.
Could I just clarify this? Your friend's husband (the baby's dad) was ready to separate from your friend (the baby's mom) if she didn't agree to have her son circumcised. Is that correct?
The circ. was so important to the dad that he was prepared to put his marriage on the line?
Surely then what he is saying is that the baby's circumcision is more important than his mom's wishes and he would rather the baby be brought up by a single parent than remain intact. Surely then, the 'blame' for any marriage break up would have been on him, not on your friend? It very much sounds to me that he put his own wish that his son be circ'd before the wishes of the baby's mom AND before his marriage! Tbh, I'm not sure I would want to be married to someone like that but that's a different issue!!!! I think if I knew my dh put more important on the status of my son's genitalia than on my wishes and desires and before our marriage, I would attach more importance on my son's genitalia than on my dh and separate from him! I come first in our relationship, kids come after! Just the way we work as a unit I suppose.
Presumably your friend knew her dh was Jewish when they got married and that if they had a son, circ would be on the agenda? I don't mean this as an attack on your friend, I just don't think the onus was on her to 'save the marriage' when it was him that put their marriage on the line over this issue. It's a shame his marriage wasn't more important to him than his son's genitals...
I think some of the other issues I have problems with is even though there maybe no short term complications, sometimes issues don't become apparent until that boy is older and becomes sexually active. Well, the last person they're going to want to talk to about their long term complications with their wife / partner is with their mom & dad so the I suspect they will never know the impact and harm caused to their child.
I do agree that there will be many parents who have a very difficult conversations coming in their future.
This too. I think any young man who is upset enough about his circ to research into it deeper will become aware that it was mroe than likely that at the time of his circ, his parents had ready access to the internet and could easily have educated themsleves and made an informed decision but chose to remain ignorant. Hpow will they answer that one???
I thought I would try and write her a very brief letter informing her in no uncertain terms that if (and it is a very big if) we are to remain friends, this whole thing needs to be discussed and aired out in the open. I am not prepared to hear her justifications because as fas I am concerned, there are none. I am not ready to hear them anyway because I know I will debunk them in 2 seconds flat because I am clearly much more informed and read up on the matter than she is. I will make the point that I am very strongly anti circ and that she has to take it or leave it. I will not make any apologies for it or make nice about it. Her feelings will not be taken into account when I post comments or 'like' stuff on FB related to anti-circ etc...
I will then see if I can actually consider remaining friends with her. Even now, I just don't have the stomach for it.
This post is exactly how I feel! I love this, thanks!
I have ended relationships with friends and family members over circumcision. It isn't that they are culturally brainwashed to believe one thing so I end it ... I came from the same culture.
How can I be friends with someone who believes that the baby they spent 9 months making is defective, or has a defect.
How can I associate with someone who (in these cases they had the facts because I gave them to them) would put their baby through sexual molestation, and sexual amputation?
How can I be friends with someone whose ethics and moral compass say that their children are property?
How could I be friends with someone who wouldn't stand up to the world and their spouse to protect their children from permanent harm to their genitals?
And then other times I struggle with the question, how can I be friends with people who don't ask why it is done, who don't stop and ask how it is done, who don't stop and ask what a foreskin is and what does it do?
And I struggle with looking into my mother and father in-laws faces and knowing that they did it to someone I love so much.
There is probably a high road that some of these women are talking about, I haven't gotten there yet. I see too much of the sameness between male circumcision and female circumcision. It repulses and saddens me the same way.
It isn't easy to have ethics while still remaining compassionate to those who are unethical. I still have yet to figure out how to allow these kinds of people access to my life.
I have counted up and when it came to putting your friendship on the line over this issue: 6 wouldn't sever a friendship, 3 would and 1 would distance. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.