7 Year Old Attacks Others When He Gets in Trouble--Help, Logical Consequences?

[umsami]

So DS1 is 7, and has always had a bit of an anger management problem.  We work on that with heart math breathing, NVC, etc.  It has helped some, but he is still prone to physically hurt others when he gets in trouble.  Today, he lashed out at DS2--purposely tripping him and then started ramming his head into me.  He also attacked his little sister.  I know he's angry...and I tried to offer some empathy, but it didn't work.  I ended up physically restraining him in a hug-hold..saying, "I'll let you go when you stop hurting others."  But other than that, I'm at a loss what to do.  When he bites, we've done things like take away dessert or something--because he's not using his mouth properly.  

Thing is... he's a strong, big kid.  I know I won't always be able to physically restrain him.  

[beebalmmama]

When ds hurts someone else. I first tell him that whatever he did was NOT okay and that we don't hurt others. But I quickly turn my attention to the person that is hurt. I think it's fair to acknowledge his anger afterward and try to help him think of how to he can respond better. But my initial attention would be on the hurt person/child.

I also think a logical consequence would that he needs to be removed from being around others until he can calm down or control himself. "If you can't be safe near others than you need to be alone until you can.'

Personally I hate using food as a consequence. Dh is prone to use this approach. I just don't think food either as a reward or punishment is building a good attitude/relationship with food.

[mary934]

Hi, 

Rewards or punishments or call them consequences won't also build a good relationship with you or teach your child to ask ' what type of person do I want to be , a person who would never want to hurt another person or do we want him to ask - what's in it for me , what will be done to me or what will | get if I do / don't etc 

I believe people and especially children do well if they can - they would prefer to be successful and act appropriately , so when they don't we must ask , what's getting in the way .  Often the child is lacking important cognitive skills . Instead of trying to make him ' wanna behave' , we should be helping him get the skills which will also make him more intrinsically motivated to be adaptive 

I recommend books by Ross Greene - the explosive child / Lost at school  = the Collaborative problem solving approach . There are 2 sites which offer good resources 

The way to go is to start with the ALSUP  - a check list of lagging skills  or the Thinking skills inventory ( depending on the site )

, prioritze problems you want to work with and get started . Important to lower the rope and have a relaxed atmosphere at home , plenty of dance and music , and most important one on one time - general chatting , perspective taking etc 

here is a blog post that shares video clips of the CPS process 

http://allankatz-parentingislearning.blogspot.com/2010/08/cps-videos.html

I hope this helps 

Mary

[D_McG]

What else have you tried as far as consequences? My son is only 4.5 but is well past the point where hitting is even remotely excusable/acceptable. The last time he hit (me) we left where we were, he got a big lecture from me and his dad, an extended period in his bedroom, a long talk before we left the house for the next week or so and a reminder that we'd cancel ___ activity if he proved himself unable to control his behavior.

From your post it sounds like you're not showing him how serious this is but I'm not sure if that's because you used to handle it differently and that didn't work, either? If so then maybe a chat with the doctor is advisable. I would be pretty concerned with that.

[Tigerchild]

If this is a fairly regular thing that happens, to be honest I would call in (even if it was brief) a good child therapist.  I think kids that age definitely can lash out---but biting seems a little over the top.  Does he only do this at home, or has this happened elsewhere as well?  (I think it's less of a problem in many ways if he knows that sort of behavior should not happen elsewhere, but saves it up for home).

I think though if you have to restrain him physically often in order to keep him from attacking his siblings, it's time to call in some help, esp. since you have been doing so much to work with him on your own!

[Magella]

When he bites, we've done things like take away dessert or something--because he's not using his mouth properly.  

  I can see your thought process here, but I personally don't see this as a logical consequence for biting a person. I think dessert or other food is just not connected enough to the act of biting a person to be a logical consequence. And I wonder if this is a consequence that can be applied consistently enough, or a consequence that he cares enough about that it would make a difference.

(eta: One thing that I know does help, and that I'm generally not as good at as I should be, is giving positive feedback when my dd *is* engaging in positive behavior. It's so important to notice and give feedback when her behavior is positive, it makes a huge difference and is at least as important as consequences for negative behavior. I found it helped to find ways of saying "I noticed that you used your words with your sister when you were frustrated with her. You handled that well." Maybe I'd say just that, maybe it would be calling her over for a quick and quiet fist bump, a thumbs-up from across the room, whatever. I think the positive feedback was more powerful than any consequence we ever used, we just had to figure out the best way (the way to which she was most receptive) to give that feedback and give it often.)

So DS1 is 7, and has always had a bit of an anger management problem.  We work on that with heart math breathing, NVC, etc.  It has helped some, but he is still prone to physically hurt others when he gets in trouble.  Today, he lashed out at DS2--purposely tripping him and then started ramming his head into me.  He also attacked his little sister.  I know he's angry...and I tried to offer some empathy, but it didn't work. 

 So I love breathing exercises, and found NVC very helpful. But you know these things weren't enough for my dd who was aggressive/had difficulty with anger management. 7 was a tough age for her, it's the age we finally sought therapy. Anyway, I just love Ross Greene's method in The Explosive Child--and more so, I love his idea of teaching kids the skills they need in order to handle their emotions without aggression, the skills they need to do better. So building skills, and identifying underlying issues, is what we (and our therapists) focused on with dd. If you haven't read this book, it's worth doing so.

We found that helping dd manage her emotions (particularly anger) without aggression required a multi-pronged approach. Part of that was getting her help for the underlying problem of her anxiety (when you're anxious all the time, you have a shorter fuse). Part of it was helping her learn to better identify her emotions and better communicate them. Part of it was helping her further develop her problem-solving skills, and helping her further develop flexibility. 

An equally important part of the process was enforcing "time-out to calm down" when she was aggressive. It didn't have to be in a separate room, but the deal was she had to sit until she was calm enough to be safe. (She didn't have to be separated from me or dad, but she did it would have to be a separate room from siblings.) After she was calm we could talk (while she was calming down, we did not talk to her--that fueled her anger/upset state of mind--though we would, very neutrally, remind her that we'd talk when she was calm). The point was to emphasize the importance of getting/staying calm enough to safely work out conflicts, and to help her learn to get herself back under control. I cannot emphasize enough how important this was for her. She needed the very clear boundary, and needed someone to enforce taking the time and space she needed to calm down. She needed us to be in control when she was unable to control herself.

At the same time, we had a list of calming activities for her to choose from *before* she reached the point of hitting. We watched for signs that she was "going to blow" (and sometimes that was hard, it seemed to happen too fast...but we got good at noticing the very subtle early signs), and would suggest she choose one of those activities. 

As for empathy: well, lots of empathy/talking when dd's upset just makes things worse. One trick we learned in therapy is to literally offer one-word empathy when she was angry. "Angry." So it would look like this: Dd hits. We say "Angry. You're angry. Sit. When you're calm, we'll talk." Then LATER, when she was actually calm, we could talk more ("you hit your brother. What was going on?.....") and problem solve from there ("you were angry because [whatever]. I hear you. Let's think of a different way you could have handled it/what else could you have done?"). We were able to move past the one-word empathy eventually, but we still keep it short (and try to listen more than we talk).

Books you may find helpful: 

The Explosive Child by Ross Greene

Raising a Thinking Child (focus on helping children learn problem-solving skills) and Thinking Parent, Thinking Child by Myrna Shure

What To Do When Your Temper Flares: A Kid's Guide to Overcoming Problems With Anger by Dawn Huebner (a good workbook for developing anger-management skills, to be used with the guidance of a parent.)

Parenting A Child Who Has Intense Emotions  by Pat Harvey and Jeanine Penzo (about helping your child regulate emotional outbursts and aggressive behaviors)

Edited by Magella - 3/10/11 at 8:22am

[mom2grrls]

Does he sleep well?  lack of sleep can lead to more aggressive behavior when angry/frustrated, etc.

[umsami]

Thank you everybody. :)

DS sleeps very well--and is a very deep sleeper.  He gets usually 11-12 hours of sleep per night.

We used Dr. Kazdin's method last year--and it worked O.K., but it seemed that when we stopped the behavior charts, the behavior returned.  I just can't see using the incentives forever.  Granted Dr. Kazdin says you shouldn't have to--but for DS, it seems we might.

He is seeing the school's therapist once per week as part of a group of kids with anger/emotional intelligence issues.  I'm not sure if we need separate therapy or not.  He just started a few weeks ago, so I want to give it some time.  

Magella--thank you so much for all of the suggestions.  I'd love to write more, but I need to go referee something!!