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Would you force her to wear the coat? sorry so long - Page 2

post #21 of 32
Thread Starter 
Okay, now I'm really irked.gif. I asked DD to tell me about when they gave her the donated jacket. It turns out that they basically kinda forced her to accept it. She says she tried to tell them she didn't want it, and didn't need it, but they told her that she either had to put it on, or she wasn't going to be allowed to go outside for recess. That they couldn't "allow" her to play outside without a zipped jacket on. So she put it on. But last night when I asked her about it, she burst into tears, and told me the story, and she's still really upset about being made to wear it. But it wasn't the teacher; the teacher just mentioned it to the counselor, that DD didn't have a jacket that zipped, and it was the counselor who bullied her into accepting a new one.

I have a history of problems with this counselor, and with the school nurse, who are in cahoots with each other most of the time. When DD was in kindy, she had some intestinal issues, related to broad-spectrum antibiotics that she was given for pneumonia. Anyway, for about two months, she was having occasional diarrhea. Every single time she did, she's tell the teacher (even though I kept on gently advising her not to tell; she was little, and didn't understand), who would send her to the nurse, who would call me and insist on sending her home. Even when I got documentation from our ped, that the problem was not infectious, and even though DD wasn't needing help or needing to change any clothes or anything, they still kept excluding her from school. For awhile it was three days a week she was being sent home, and excluded until we got yet another all-clear note from our poor pediatrician, who bless her was so patient, and tried so hard to get them off my back. And then the counselor called me in and tried to talk to me about how maybe we needed family counseling, because clearly it wasn't "normal" for DD to keep having diarrhea, and maybe it was stress-related, and making insinuations about my care of her that were scary to me.

Anyway, these people have been a thorn in my side for ages. (Despite the fact that DD goes to school clean, dressed in clean clothes that fit (other than the jacket debacle eyesroll.gif ), and with a lunchbox full of nutritious food, and hasn't had any medical or emotional problems since that one issue cleared up.) So now I'm starting to feel like them pushing this jacket on DD was meant to be a backhanded comment on my parenting, rather than something well-intentioned but misguided.
post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polliwog View Post

Your oldest child is still pretty little. You may not have hit the stage where items can get meaning attached to even functional objects. And the jacket is still working.


I know you were talking to GoBecGo, but I felt the same way as her and my kids are 6.5 and 3.5 and we have definitely been through "attachment to objects" stages in spades.  In fact, I think that's why I work so hard with my kids at learning to "let go" of stuff.  Dd in particular (the 6yo) has a very pack-rat-ish personality and used to find it VERY hard to throw ANYTHING (and I am talking literally garbage.... dirty garbage) away.  I've been working gently with her over the years to get to the stage where she is ok with out-grown clothes being passed on, choosing some artwork to keep and some to give away, not picking up every little thing she sees on the sidewalk, etc.  I am definitely not talking about throwing lovies out with the trash or anything, but even a well-loved, favourite jacket that is broken and can't be fixed (or is outgrown) needs to go (in our family).

 

post #23 of 32

if shes going to be outside for any length of time but get her a sweat shirt to wear under her coat so they she is plenty warm but can still wear the coat she likes. 

post #24 of 32

OK so all that puts an entirely different light on the topic.  Can you explain to your DD why in this case it is important to wear a jacket with a zip (unless you're willing to risk exclusion/CPS visit over this)?  Or can you call the counsellor and attempt to explain to them why the scarf was with your DD (to make to beloved but slightly broken jacket warm enough)?  I seriously wish i lived closer, i'm a dab hand with the sewing machine and could almost certainly put a new zip in for you guys.

 

This wouldn't be my hill to die on, even though i totally feel, as you probably do, that the counsellor is a control freak.  I had a counsellor like this in high school.  One weekend my mother was very sick and on the Monday i was off school.  On the Tuesday i forgot the note my father had left for me to take in to explain my absence, my counsellor came and asked me for it, and i said "i forgot it, i'll need to bring it tomorrow" and she then followed me down the corridor trying to get out of me why i'd been off.  I knew i'd cry (my mother had had a heart attack and was still in CCU at that moment) if i tried it discuss it, and i didn't really know well or like the counsellor so i didn't want to cry in the corridor OR in private in her office.  I just kept repeating "i'll bring the note tomorrow".  Eventually she gave up.  That evening i got home and Mum had been released (she had 14 episodes off serious coronary illness including 7 heart attacks and a mini-stroke when i was 13-17 years old and they didn't keep her longer than they had to, she was waiting for a pacemaker surgery which she eventually got) and was in bed.  Dad had run out to get some food and the phone rang.  it was the counsellor.  She wanted to speak with my mother, i said "she's really not well, my father can call you back in about an hour" and the counsellor said "no, i want to speak to her right now rebecca, i think we both know all of this needs to be sorted out right now" (bear in mind, i was a straight-A student who had NEVER truanted, i have no idea why she reacted like i'd been bunking school to rob the elderly on this one lapse).  I argued politely with her, i was 16, eventually my mother took the phone from my hand and said very calmly "Mrs _____ I had a heart attack on Saturday afternoon, Beccy was at the hospital with me on Monday, we need time as a family to heal, please leave us alone" and put the phone down.  AND THEN the counsellor followed me about for a week apologising and trying to give me leaflets!  Awful.

 

So, i get that a bad counsellor can be a huge problem.  The question is, do you want to confront, do damage limitation, or ignore?  Hard.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llyra View Post

Okay, now I'm really irked.gif. I asked DD to tell me about when they gave her the donated jacket. It turns out that they basically kinda forced her to accept it. She says she tried to tell them she didn't want it, and didn't need it, but they told her that she either had to put it on, or she wasn't going to be allowed to go outside for recess. That they couldn't "allow" her to play outside without a zipped jacket on. So she put it on. But last night when I asked her about it, she burst into tears, and told me the story, and she's still really upset about being made to wear it. But it wasn't the teacher; the teacher just mentioned it to the counselor, that DD didn't have a jacket that zipped, and it was the counselor who bullied her into accepting a new one.

I have a history of problems with this counselor, and with the school nurse, who are in cahoots with each other most of the time. When DD was in kindy, she had some intestinal issues, related to broad-spectrum antibiotics that she was given for pneumonia. Anyway, for about two months, she was having occasional diarrhea. Every single time she did, she's tell the teacher (even though I kept on gently advising her not to tell; she was little, and didn't understand), who would send her to the nurse, who would call me and insist on sending her home. Even when I got documentation from our ped, that the problem was not infectious, and even though DD wasn't needing help or needing to change any clothes or anything, they still kept excluding her from school. For awhile it was three days a week she was being sent home, and excluded until we got yet another all-clear note from our poor pediatrician, who bless her was so patient, and tried so hard to get them off my back. And then the counselor called me in and tried to talk to me about how maybe we needed family counseling, because clearly it wasn't "normal" for DD to keep having diarrhea, and maybe it was stress-related, and making insinuations about my care of her that were scary to me.

Anyway, these people have been a thorn in my side for ages. (Despite the fact that DD goes to school clean, dressed in clean clothes that fit (other than the jacket debacle eyesroll.gif ), and with a lunchbox full of nutritious food, and hasn't had any medical or emotional problems since that one issue cleared up.) So now I'm starting to feel like them pushing this jacket on DD was meant to be a backhanded comment on my parenting, rather than something well-intentioned but misguided.


 

post #25 of 32

Do you want to borrow my dh?  He thinks this is so dumb, and he'd just go through the roof if it were us in this scenerio.  :)

post #26 of 32

This situation is so strange!  To answer your first question, I would have done exactly what you did-- in fact I have.  My boys constantly wear old favorites instead of cute new things (which drives me crazy!)  But it's their choice.  

 

At first I thought the new jacket situation was actually a tremendous kindness.  My dd attends a pre-k program in an underprivileged school and probably half the kids there could use a new coat.  It would definitely not be an issue at her school.  But given the new information, I can see how you're concerned.  Personally, I would just let it go, though.  You've already written a note, right?  That's good enough.  Seems like the counselor is a busy-body, but that's kind of her job.  Too bad she's so wrong about your situation, but oh well. (Easy for me to say from the outside!)

 

If you feel that you really must talk to her, though, I would approach it in terms of your parenting choice.  Tell her that you were letting your daughter face the natural consequences of her decision and that when your dd was cold enough, she had a practically brand new coat at home to wear.  And that the counselor really interfered with that lesson, and you're concerned about that. Tell her that in the future if she had issues like that come up, she can call you first for clarification before dealing directly with your dd. 

post #27 of 32

I would email the school principal and cc it (is that the right term?) to the AP and the school board. In my opinion having been on the other side of this situation (working in a school with children who WERE neglected/abused) this counselor is creating documentation to build a case against you. You need to create a paper trail for yourself, ASAP. It doesn't matter if it is the jacket issue or another one; she will find something, if that is her intention.

 

Go over her head and make a formal complaint about the way she handled the situation. That was very wrong and it definitely smacks of a judgemental attitude towards you. I `might sound harsh, but if she already has her mind made up wboutyour family, then nothing you say directly to her will be of any use.

post #28 of 32

No way would I force the coat. There are so many other choices: find another coat she likes, add new closures to the broken one, a hoodie, etc.

post #29 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy View Post

I would email the school principal and cc it (is that the right term?) to the AP and the school board. In my opinion having been on the other side of this situation (working in a school with children who WERE neglected/abused) this counselor is creating documentation to build a case against you. You need to create a paper trail for yourself, ASAP. It doesn't matter if it is the jacket issue or another one; she will find something, if that is her intention.

 

Go over her head and make a formal complaint about the way she handled the situation. That was very wrong and it definitely smacks of a judgemental attitude towards you. I `might sound harsh, but if she already has her mind made up wboutyour family, then nothing you say directly to her will be of any use.


I think you're right about this. This is exactly what I feel is happening-- that she's decided, on the basis on our few interactions back when DD was in kindy, that there's somehow a problem in my house or with my parenting, and she's fishing for "proof." I just can't imagine what they're going to come after me about though-- if DYFS (that's what CPS is in my state) came here, my house is clean, there's plenty of food, everybody has drawers and closets full of clean clothes, we see the pediatrician regularly. My kids are even vaxed eyesroll.gif -- I just don't know what she thinks she has on me.

I'm glad I have the paper trail, from kindergarten, with the pneumonia and the c-diff. Our ped's office got involved with that, so I have them at my back.

The only other thing I can think of, besides the jacket, and DD's illness in kindy, is that DD has untidy hair. That's not my fault-- I comb it and braid it every morning. But DD has this habit of running her hands through it and pulling it out, so that by the end of the day she sometimes is a bit of a mess.

Anyway, what I'm going to do is to go see the vice-principal. First of all, I know her-- DH used to work for her husband, and they live in my neighborhood (although we are not friends, or anything like that). I think she's the person in the building most likely to be able to help me handle this in the best possible way. DD stayed home on Friday-- she's had a horrible cold, with a hacking cough. I'm going to drive her to school tomorrow, and make a point of stopping in to see the teacher, and to make the appointment with the V-P in person. I think most of the problem is that I have not been all that visible in the school-- DD has been doing so well, and I'm so busy with other things, that I've been taking a "no news is good news" approach. I think they need to see my face more often.

What really bothers me, is that throughout this whole jacket thing, I haven't heard a word from anybody. The teacher hasn't contacted me, nor has the nurse or this counselor. If they were concerned about DD having a jacket, why didn't they just call me, or email me? I have literally never once ever heard from this teacher, when I didn't initiate the contact myself.
post #30 of 32

My dd's coat doesn't zip up either and it is also her favorite, the other coat she has looks like a "boy" coat and she has strong objections to wearing it because she will be teased (and that is a very valid concern for a school age child).  The weather is nice enough that I am not going to run out and get another coat when winter is almost over.  Nobody at her school has said anything.  When it is breezy or slightly colder than usual I tell her what the weather is and suggest that she wear a jacket that zips under the coat, she almost always does and when she doesn't she still arrives home in one piece and goes back to taking the suggestion afterward. 

 

I am shocked that some people would just trash stuff that is important to their kids.  I don't think you should just throw away something a child values just because you don't personally value it, that is really disrespectful to children as feeling human beings.  I remember how heartbroken I was when my mom insisted I get rid of a sweater I was very attached to.  After a lot of crying she let me keep it, but I still remember very vividly how that feeling of loss was very hard to deal with and I wouldn't put a child through that just because I didn't value what they value.  Every human values different things even if they are raised in the same family. 

post #31 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Girl View Post

My dd's coat doesn't zip up either and it is also her favorite, the other coat she has looks like a "boy" coat and she has strong objections to wearing it because she will be teased (and that is a very valid concern for a school age child).  The weather is nice enough that I am not going to run out and get another coat when winter is almost over.  Nobody at her school has said anything.  When it is breezy or slightly colder than usual I tell her what the weather is and suggest that she wear a jacket that zips under the coat, she almost always does and when she doesn't she still arrives home in one piece and goes back to taking the suggestion afterward. 

 

I am shocked that some people would just trash stuff that is important to their kids.  I don't think you should just throw away something a child values just because you don't personally value it, that is really disrespectful to children as feeling human beings.  I remember how heartbroken I was when my mom insisted I get rid of a sweater I was very attached to.  After a lot of crying she let me keep it, but I still remember very vividly how that feeling of loss was very hard to deal with and I wouldn't put a child through that just because I didn't value what they value.  Every human values different things even if they are raised in the same family. 

 

Actually, i was saying it would not be important to my child any more if it broke, because she doesn't like broken things.  No one is taking her humanity from her, don't worry!
 

 

post #32 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post



 

Actually, i was saying it would not be important to my child any more if it broke, because she doesn't like broken things.  No one is taking her humanity from her, don't worry!
 

 

 

I wasn't worried or even quoting you I was speaking to the idea that the coat should just be thrown away despite the child have strong feelings about keeping the coat that I saw in a few posts I was skimming, I was saying don't like the idea of people taking something that is important to their child away and disregarding the child's feelings.  If you feel like you are disregarding your child's feelings then the post would refer to you in a general sort of way but it wasn't directed at you because I didn't even realize you were one of the people posting that opinion. 

 

I do find it interesting that a coat with a broken zipper is being called a broken thing.  Even with a broken zipper a coat can still be very functional because the weather in many places is often warm enough for the coat to be unzipped but too cold for a sweater or jacket.  Discarding a coat that still works perfectly well and getting a new replacement coat (even if it is newly from the thrift store) seems to be fostering more materialism than keeping the coat would.  I am not big on preventing materialism though so I don't know all the ins and outs.
 

 

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