How much housework fair to expect from a nanny? - Page 3

[Jane93]

"Don't we always tell new mothers to sleep when the baby sleeps?  Of course that's hard advice to follow, but even thougth she's being paid to care for your little ones she needs a break."" "

And just think -- she has all Saturday off, all Sunday off, and every day from 5:30 pm to 8 am off!  I mean, I'm not being all "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean" about it, but our nanny's situation is not comparable to that of a new mother.

In any event, I had the opportunity to conduct an experiment on Sunday, since my husband was off to work at 6 am and didn't get back until 5 pm.  So, I worked during the day to keep things to the standard that I would like to see the nanny achieve. 

It required a little additional forethought and multitasking (for example, rather than letting the girls have their afternoon bottle in the playroom, I brought them into the kitchen, popped them in their highchairs and let them have their bottles while I emptyed the dishwasher, wiped things down from breakfast and lunch, etc.) but was very achievable on what I considered an "average behavior" day for the girls.  I even had time to watch an espisode of Bones all the way through (while folding laundry in the afternoon), cook myself lunch, chat on the phone for a half-hour and do some pleasure reading.

This was certainly made more doable thanks to the awesome schedule the girls are currently on.  While I was home with them, I did everything on demand, while the nanny pretty quickly shifted them onto a schedule -- and they are happier girls for it.  They always know what's next during the day, and do not condone deviation!  When they felt lunch was running a little late, they crawled over to the kitchen gate, makiing the "eat" sign and when mommy didn't move fast enough, started banging on the gate.  Since their day follows a certain set pattern fairly closely, it is much easier to prep for and figure out when to tuck in a couple of 15 minute clean up sessions (which is what all of it, except the laundry folding, which I could do while watching TV, took).

So, I will be having a conversation with the nanny about some general expectations, while also having a discussion about some of the positives (as I think things are going well with regard to the childcare, and both sides should be addressed).   

[blessedwithboys]

"And just think -- she has all Saturday off, all Sunday off, and every day from 5:30 pm to 8 am off! "

Bowing out gracefully now...   :)

[Alyantavid]

Originally Posted by geekgolightly 

[quote]What?  My daycare provider makes more than I do and I make a livable wage.  I don't set the rate, she does.  And she has a lengthy waiting list. 

I live a very low cost area and this is the absolute best daycare in my area.  I don't go by how cheap it is, I go by how good it is.  Besides the rate I pay, is the average here.  I hate the idea that if a mom somewere in the world pays a lower daycare rate, it means they must be using crappy daycare. 

You'd probably all be appalled at my pay rate.[/quote]

if you are paid less than 2.50/hr yes, i am appalled at your rate of pay. i assume you are living in america and not columbia as another poster discussed. i don't know livable wages in columbia, so i can't comment.

Yes I do make more than $2.50 an hour.  But so does my daycare provider.  I just don't like the judgment in this thread.  If you have issues with daycare wages, obviously pay the most you can possibly find.  But don't assume that a lower rate equals lower quality.  If you're comparing rates in the same area, sure, but you and I don't live in the same area so I'm not sure why you can't understand that col affects daycare.  If my provider can't live on the wages she's asking for, she probably wouldn't still be doing it after 15 years.

[JennaW]

Well, I will be the voice of dissent, as a nanny! I take care of a 3 year old boy and I have 32 month old daughter. The kids sleep approximately 2-3 hours in the afternoon.  I do not think the things you have listed here are out of the norm to ask for at all.  The people I work for are awesome and pay me well ($1400 a month for about 30 hours a week) and a generous with "benefits" (example if they go out of town, they still pay me, if they decide to take a day off work, they still pay me.)

In my contract it does ask that I keep up with messes during the day that specifically relate to the kids but other then that, they made it very clear not to worry about housework. But seriously, I have 3 hours in the middle of the day? So I started doing their laundry, the dishwasher is always unloaded/loaded.  I make sure the dishwasher is mostly empty when they get home so there is room for dinner dishes. Tables/highchairs/counters are kept wiped down.  I do my best to keep toys picked up, although I have given up on having them all be put away because it is just silly.  Their son just pulls them right back out again, I do make sure its not like a toy explosion though.  I keep the kitchen floor swept and mopped. Sometimes I will do the grocery shopping, especially if I notice supplies are running low and I just know they won't make it to the store in time, this is somewhat selfish though just because I don't want to deal with having to get too creative on coming up for something for lunch or snack for the kids, just easier to run to Trader Joe's and pick up some stuff I know they enjoy.  I take the trash and recycling out on my way to the car.  And I still have plenty of time to eat lunch, surf the web, read a book, take a nap.  And I'm 17 weeks pregnant. The people I work for are extremely grateful for everything I do and they always let me know how much they appreciate me.

And I bet if you have a simple talk with your nanny about these things, it will not be a big deal. And if it really is too much work for her to do and she feels overwhelmed, hopefully she will say so and you can adjust your expectations.  The one thing (I think?) you mentioned was wiping down the stove, maybe it is just because I hate this chore but I would be slightly irritated if I was asked to do this.  Wiping down small spills I may have made, fine (and I would do this anyway) but I know in my case sometimes the people I work for make kind of a mess of their stovetop and many times I just leave that for them (or rather their housekeeper.) Also I think the suggestion of getting some less sensitive knifes and pans that can be thrown in the dishwasher isn't a bad idea, you can pick up something decent for a good price at Marshall's or Ross.  

Good luck!  Not all nannies are lazy with an attitude of entitlement!

[geekgolightly]

Originally Posted by Alyantavid 

Yes I do make more than $2.50 an hour.  But so does my daycare provider.  I just don't like the judgment in this thread.  If you have issues with daycare wages, obviously pay the most you can possibly find.  But don't assume that a lower rate equals lower quality.  If you're comparing rates in the same area, sure, but you and I don't live in the same area so I'm not sure why you can't understand that col affects daycare.  If my provider can't live on the wages she's asking for, she probably wouldn't still be doing it after 15 years.

I am not sure why you can't understand that I was appalled by the idea of earning 2.50/hr.

[Alyantavid]

Originally Posted by geekgolightly 

I am not sure why you can't understand that I was appalled by the idea of earning 2.50/hr.

I do understand that.  You know, I'm done.  I can't seem to make you understand my point.

OP, I do think your expectations are reasonable.  Good luck, I hope you are able to talk to your nanny and get this resolved.
 

[SubliminalDarkness]

I've been a nanny. I've worked for four families, I think. 

Every family has very different expectations. The first family I worked for, my sole job was to play with the kids and keep them happy. Period. We went out of the house to do fun things, we played games at home, we spent time outside, there were no household tasks that they worried about. I did load dishes in the dishwasher, I did try and keep some messes contained(like toys in the main living spaces), but it was laid out to me clearly that my job was to take care of the kids. I left that job because the family was having some financial strain and they decided to go a cheaper route. 

The second family was a bit different. The mom was a WAHM of three kids, one who was in middle school, a toddler, and an infant. The primary job was the kids, but there was also some dropping off/picking of kids at preschool, occasionally she would ask if I could run an errand, sometimes I 'chaperoned' a visit with grandma, sometimes she'd ask me to tidy the kitchen or vacuum, but that wasn't a big deal because usually the baby was sleeping and the toddler was watching tv(this mom was pretty ok with tv a lot). I left that job because the family was moving to a house further out and I didn't want to drive that far. 

The next family was kind of a mess. It was a first grader and a preschooler. Single mom. There was a LOT of errands, dropping off/picking up kids, shuttling them here and there, making their dinner(or at least starting it), they did have a weekly housekeeper but she did want me to do quite a bit of tidying, daily sweeping, etc., I was supposed to fold laundry, all of this with my car and my gas..... I was frankly not paid enough, and it was too time consuming. Yes, three days a week both of the kids were out of the house for three hours in the morning. But when you included driving time, errands, chores, and so on and so forth, oy. It was overwhelming. She also had a lot of particulars, like how I was supposed to rinse the coffeepot daily(no soap). And I was supposed to run the kitchen sponge through the dishwasher every day. And I was supposed to shake out the placemats every day. It may not seem like a big deal, but it felt demeaning. I quit that job. I didn't have another job lined up, either. I just couldn't do it anymore. 

The last one was a much nicer situation, and I think sort of what you're aiming for. It was one infant girl. They also had two dogs, but my responsibilities with them were pretty minor, because those dogs had had a "dog nanny" as puppies and they were REMARKABLE. Anyway. For her, it was mostly about the baby. Keep baby happy, feed baby, clean up after baby, do baby's laundry, prepare baby's food, and so on. They did ask that I vacuum once a week on the main floor, no big deal. They did ask that I swiffer the kitchen once a day in the afternoon, no big deal. And to load dishes into the dishwasher, no big deal. No errands, though, but they didn't mind me taking her to the library or over to my parents' house for a visit. That job ended when they decided to switch to an in-home daycare to save money. 

[lunarlady]

I have to chime in and say that I think the biggest problem the OP is having is not unreasonable demands, it is a lack of communication!  It sounds like your nanny does a fine job at the things you have agreed with her to do, like the kids laundry and your weekly errends.  What is falling through the cracks is the little stuff.  Like the crumbs that she most likely doesn't notice fall down in the highchair cracks, the jars that don't make it to the recycling, and the dirty bibs.  So you just need to communicate.  She might think that you use the baby jars for projects, or think you will use the dirty bib for dinner or maybe to wipe up kitchen spills before washing.  She might not realize that these things are bothering you.  So you just have to ask!  Tell her that you would like the jars in the recycling, tell her where to put the dirty bibs for washing (laundry hamper?) and explain that sometimes crumbs are falling under the highchair cover so when she wipes them off please remember to lift and wipe under the cover too.  They are 30 second jobs, not huge demands like do my floors or vacuum or something like that. And since it seems to have come up, we pay our nanny $8.35 and hour, with overtime it works out to around $400 a week.  She does our kids laundry, picks up the toys, cleans their lunch dishes, and wipes down any messes they make during the day.  She does NOT run the dishwasher, run errends for us, or do heavy housekeeping.  

[*bejeweled*]

I totally agree with this.

Originally Posted by pianojazzgirl 

I've never been a nanny or hired a nanny so you take this with a huge grain of salt, but.... I am REALLY surprised by all the things you are "requiring" her to get done throughout the day.  I always thought that nannies are there for the kids.  Anything else (besides the very basics like not leaving huge gross food spill messes or something like that) is extra.  The amount that she already does for you (laundry and shopping) seems "above and beyond" to me.  Don't forget that the more housekeeping you ask her to do, the more time and attention she'll have to take away from the girls.  I would much prefer having a nanny who put the dirty clothes in the hamper, but didn't wash and fold them, BUT took the girls out for a great day at the park/library/whatever, yk?  I'd also like to feel like she's right there on top of any potential mishaps (accidents, sibling squabbles) as opposed to down in the basement switching the washing to the dryer. 

JMHO of course...

[Lamashtu]

I have a part-time nanny who provides childcare.  She puts the dishes in the dishwasher after feeding Leda and puts the toys in the playroom away.  I have a part-time housekeeper who cleans the house and takes care of laundry.  To me, that makes perfect sense. 

Look at it this way.  Before I was a SAHM, I worked as an attorney.  I did, well,  attorney things.  I didn't answer the phones or clean my office or  hand messenger documents.  Why?  Simple:  I am an attorney, not a receptionist, cleaning staff or messenger!

[Jane93]

"Before I was a SAHM, I worked as an attorney.  I did, well,  attorney things.  I didn't answer the phones or clean my office or  hand messenger documents.  Why?  Simple:  I am an attorney, not a receptionist, cleaning staff or messenger! "

I think its all part of what you considering getting a job done.  Is the "job" of getting lunch for the girls grabbing some food out of the fridge and putting it in front of them, or does it involve -- putting the food away afterwards, wiping down the highchair and highchair tray, putting the dishes used in the dishwasher, wiping up any crumbs generated in the process, and wiping down the bib used?

I've copied and faxed my own stuff, run things out to clients where they really needed some handholding to work through what needed to be signed, etc. and since our cleaning staff only vaccums and empties wastepaper cans -- yes I (with my secretary's assistance) clean my office (organizing papers/dusting, etc.)   Sometimes you can wait until office services comes back with your copies, or your secretary is back from lunch -- other times you do what you need to do to get the job done.

[lunarlady]

Exactly!  In my book "caring for my kids" means giving them a safe, clean environment in which to play as well as the games and activites that occur when I am away.  So cleaning the dishes, picking up toys, and doing the kids laundry are all parts of caring for my kids in a loving manner.  My nanny is not just a sitter that plays with my kids when I am away.  She is a role model to my daughters, who spends more waking time with them than I do!  If I want my girls to learn to clean dishes after they eat, put away laundry, and pick up their toys then those activities need to be part of their daily routine no matter who is watching them.

[nina_yyc]

OP, I don't think what you're asking is unreasonable.  It's what I would expect out of myself on one of my days at home, no real cleaning, just not leaving a mess.  I agree with everyone who says to gently clarify your expectations and see what happens.

I came here to make two points:

1. There are definitely two schools of thought on the parenting/housework balance. Some skew in favor of playing with the kids and letting the dishes pile up, and others skew in favor of letting the kids entertain themselves while chores get done.  I don't think either is right or wrong, unless you are on one of the extremes, but my point is that there is plenty of room for interpretation on what is the job of a nanny (or a SAHP for that matter!) Expectations need to be spelled out.

2.  You can't compare a nanny to a parent.  A mom of one-year-old twins would typically have one year of childcare experience.  An experienced nanny would have had many years of experience and a big bag of tricks when it comes to baby care.  She should have learned to manage her days according to the needs of the children and the expectations of the employer.

[Lisa1970]

I think you are asking too much. She practically needs a sitter for those two while she does all those chores. It really comes down to what is important to you..the children, or the chores. Those chores would get in the way of properly caring for the children. It would be reasonable to ask that she clean up from whatever they did that day, including meals. But shopping for the children too? Then grocery shopping for the family? I never ever had my nanny do any of this back when I had one. It is a lot to take twin 1 yr olds to the store. Sounds like you definitely would not want to do it. I would not even want my nanny to do it is she offered. I have never heard of a nanny being expected to do all that. The household chore part is at the highest limit of what I would expect, and the shopping is way over the top.

[Lisa1970]

People keep responding to your post that it is reasonable to expect her to clean up after the meals and all but no one seems to be addressing that you also expect her to cart the twin girls off to the whole foods grocery store and do the family grocery shopping with them. That is way over the top. 

[Lisa1970]

In the list of everything you did, you did not take them shopping. Plus, you talk about the hours she has off....well..you are the PARENT. I would expect way way more of a parent than a nanny. Otherwise, you start to get the remarks about not raising your own children. Which, would be hard to argue with if you think the nanny should be doing at least as much as or more than you. I am just saying..as a parent, you should most certainly expect to do more and have a bigger role in your children's lives than the nanny. And the nanny should be focused on the children with the household chores being  a side item. And the grocery shopping should not even be something asked of her, unless the children are gone for part of the day so she has the time without them. You might be happier if you hired at least a parttime housekeeper who can do the grocery shopping and whatever else.
 

Originally Posted by Jane93 

"Don't we always tell new mothers to sleep when the baby sleeps?  Of course that's hard advice to follow, but even thougth she's being paid to care for your little ones she needs a break."" "

And just think -- she has all Saturday off, all Sunday off, and every day from 5:30 pm to 8 am off!  I mean, I'm not being all "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean" about it, but our nanny's situation is not comparable to that of a new mother.

In any event, I had the opportunity to conduct an experiment on Sunday, since my husband was off to work at 6 am and didn't get back until 5 pm.  So, I worked during the day to keep things to the standard that I would like to see the nanny achieve. 

It required a little additional forethought and multitasking (for example, rather than letting the girls have their afternoon bottle in the playroom, I brought them into the kitchen, popped them in their highchairs and let them have their bottles while I emptyed the dishwasher, wiped things down from breakfast and lunch, etc.) but was very achievable on what I considered an "average behavior" day for the girls.  I even had time to watch an espisode of Bones all the way through (while folding laundry in the afternoon), cook myself lunch, chat on the phone for a half-hour and do some pleasure reading.

This was certainly made more doable thanks to the awesome schedule the girls are currently on.  While I was home with them, I did everything on demand, while the nanny pretty quickly shifted them onto a schedule -- and they are happier girls for it.  They always know what's next during the day, and do not condone deviation!  When they felt lunch was running a little late, they crawled over to the kitchen gate, makiing the "eat" sign and when mommy didn't move fast enough, started banging on the gate.  Since their day follows a certain set pattern fairly closely, it is much easier to prep for and figure out when to tuck in a couple of 15 minute clean up sessions (which is what all of it, except the laundry folding, which I could do while watching TV, took).

So, I will be having a conversation with the nanny about some general expectations, while also having a discussion about some of the positives (as I think things are going well with regard to the childcare, and both sides should be addressed).   

[Lisa1970]

I agree with this. When I was in college, during the summers, I would work as a nanny and then the school years, at local daycare. I worked daycare parttime in high school too. When I had a child, I could not stomach putting my child in a room full of other babies with 1 staff member per 4-6 babies and a propped bottle and never being loved on, rocked, read to, etc. So, I hired a nanny. The reason for the nanny was not to have slave labor cleaning done. The reason for the nanny is I wanted my child to have the attention and care that I felt a daycare would never give. And I got just that! I always recommend nannies. But when you start expecting the nanny to be a housekeeper too and have little respect for the work they do, you are asking for the troubles of ending up with a bad nanny (the good ones will quit or at least get miserable enough that the quality of care will go down). It sounds like you have little respect for the work your nanny does. You tried to do her job for one day, but did not even get the shopping in and felt because you were able to watch a TV show while doing chores, that your nanny, who is your employee, not slave, should do the same. If you think your nanny is worth having over sending your children off to a crowded daycare full of lots of children, then you should value the care she is giving your children. Of not, send the children to daycare and use the savings to hire a housekeeper. It is that simple.
 

Originally Posted by tinuviel_k 

Originally Posted by Jane93 

I honestly can't imagine having a full time nanny who doesn't do the kids laundry -- everyone I know who has a nanny includes that.  We are literally paying about double what a quality daycare for the girls would have cost, so the only real justification for that extra expenditure are these sort of services the nanny provides.

I don't agree with this. I think you are forgetting that with a daycare there are quite a few children per adult staff member, and so a quality home daycare proviser can charge less per child, but still make a livable wage. The reason daycare costs less than a nanny is not necessarily because the nanny should be doing more: it is because a daycare will have up to 10 children whereas a nanny will only have one or two. A home daycare provider might charge $4/hour for each child. If he/she has five children then he/she is making $20 an hour. If a nanny only charged $4 an hour per child then there is no way they could support themselves on a full-time nanny job.
In this respect you are not necessarily paying more money for money for a nanny to clean your house; you are paying a livable wage for the person who will provide full-time one-on-one attention for your children.
 

[crunchy_mommy]

I do think your expectations are unreasonable... I'm kind of appalled, in fact -- I have ONE 2-yo and there is no way I could get all those things done from 9-5 without neglecting DS. (No, I'm not saying anyone's neglecting their kids if they CAN get those things done... Just that there's no way *I* could do it... But then again, I can't imagine my DS taking a 3-hour nap either...)

But the bottom line is this:

Originally Posted by Jane93 

Our agreement is that she is responsible for...

I assume this is all included in a written contract? And if your nanny has been 'in the business" for 15+ years, she probably knows by now what she can handle and what she can't. So if you both agreed to all those things, yes, you should expect her to do them, and if they're not getting done, you need to find out why -- maybe your kids are more high-needs than she expected, or maybe your house is not organized in a way that is conducive to cleaning up after herself, or maybe she has some medical issue that's slowing her down, or maybe she is trying to get too much of her own personal business done during the day... Who knows what the reasons are, but the bottom line is, you need to either both agree to an ammended contract with more reasonable expectations, or she needs to do what she agreed to do.

[One_Girl]

I think you need to experiment for a lot longer than a day and do all of the things you are expecting your nanny to do while providing at least the same level of care she gives the children.  You should also ask her if she believes in having the children hold their own bottles at a seat or if she holds them while giving them the bottles.  I say this because this issue often is one of the indicators for the philosophy a caregiver (or in daycare the center as a whole) holds.  You said the nanny has a lot of experience and is still close with kids she was a nanny for earlier in her career so I am guessing she has a very child centered philosophy and is going to find it easier to find a family that is looking for that type of person to care for their children than changing her philosophy would be. 

It sounds like you may have a very big philosophical difference and you really may need to look for a nanny that matches your philosophy more.  She may have had many families list a lot of chores in the contract that they want her to do without following through because they cared more about their kids getting the one on one care they were paying for.  It sounds like you may not be looking for the level of one on one care she believes in providing and that is something you need to discuss with her so you both know whether this job is truly a match for her. 

[hakeber]

hmmmmm, Just my 2 cents...If I need to pop my babe in the high chair while I multi-task, I do it, because I am a mom and I have all night and all weekend to make up for it.  I would not expect someone I am paying to look after my child to put kitchen duty before playing with my kids, or giving them a nap-time bottle...especially if I had agreed with them that "care for the [baby] takes priority over all these items."

Sounds to me like you need to re-write that part of the contract with her, and if she agrees, you'll be fine, and if not, find a new nanny that doesn't take that part of the contract quite so seriously.