How much housework fair to expect from a nanny? - Page 5

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by MissinNYC 

So do you feel that a mother who leaves a baby on a playmat on the floor for ten minutes so she can fold laundry is somehow shirking her duty? Or that she is treating the child as having low value? My kids have always loved to cuddle as babies/toddlers but also been happy for windows of time when I could get things done, or been content in a carrier for a bit, or napped. My kids would have been cranky as all get out had I wanted to interact with them 24/7. Babies like some chill-out time, too. Not for hours and hours a day, but 15 minutes here or there while I heat a can of soup, or put some laundry away, or wipe down a counter. Especially with toddlers, who can be taught to "help" with minor tasks or encouraged to play kitchen while you do kitchen tasks, etc. 

Just as you wouldn't work for someone who expected light housekeeping, I wouldn't hire someone who refused any cleaning and acted so disrespectful. If many moms like me can juggle raising multiple children, keeping their homes decently picked up (not white glove clean, just basic tidiness/decluttered), being wives, shuttling kids around, cooking meals, etc, then I should expect a full time nanny who is paid decently to expect to do light work associated with the kid(s) in her downtime. 

I also wanted to add that even in daycare centers, some work is expected. I know the teachers in my son's school (he attends a SN preschool with an infant center attached to it) are responsible for heating and serving meals, cleaning up from them, sweeping the floor and sanitizing the tables/highchairs after each meal, taking out diaper trash, cleaning up toys after each activity, wiping down counters, etc. Multiple times per day. And there are at least 3:1 ratios in those infant rooms. I know the people there don't get paid much, even. So it's apparently not totally out of the realm of expectation or ability. 

As a mom, I have no trouble doing that kind of thing (although I don't do it every day or every hour or whatever...it varies. Some days I forge waaaaay ahead on house/life projects and some days I don't).

But if I were a nanny I think I would be more focused/cautious about not minding my charges. A lot would depend on the environment too.  Is the kitchen right next to an area that they can play safely and so on.

When I babysit other people's kids, I find it harder than dealing with my own...we don't have the same connection, the same rhythm; my sense of where they are and what they are doing is not as in tune. I have to work a lot harder to watch my friend's son for an hour than to watch mine. I have a friend with twins and honest - they have an amazing capacity to tag-team dangerous situations. I'm a bit edgy with them.

It also doesn't sound to me like the nanny is trashing everything or not doing any housework at all - she does shopping and presumably puts that away, some laundry, some tidying up, etc.  It's just that not every single thing is done every single day. Also, although staff clean at daycares they also have breaks. They have backup if they have to pee or if they are about to lose it. The trouble with always being busy tidying every last thing up is that you can end up with no reserves at a moment when you really want them. I have a 9 week old baby and a 5 year old and my husband was away for a weekend for work recently (when my newborn was 7 weeks old).  Saturday I was very productive only to find myself losing patience Sunday afternoon. Next time fewer chores will get done, even if I end up with energy leftover.

When I've had a nanny I've always wanted to be sure that she knew it was all right with me if she needed to take nap time to recover. It's way more important to me that my child's caregiver be grounded and even happy than to get every penny's worth...because I want a caregiver who is not punching a clock but being creative, positive and so on.

Anyways I'm sure the OP will work it out - she seems pretty set on her course. OP I came back because I had another thought - what if you and your nanny agreed she would stay 15 min later to take care of these things (basically to pretty the house up for you), and then she would get an extra day's vacation pay every quarter or something like that? It might be a very small financial investment to make your life better, and still leave the reasonable idea that she is doing her best already and for whatever reason those things are the tipping point for her in a day.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by MissinNYC 

So do you feel that a mother who leaves a baby on a playmat on the floor for ten minutes so she can fold laundry is somehow shirking her duty? Or that she is treating the child as having low value? My kids have always loved to cuddle as babies/toddlers but also been happy for windows of time when I could get things done, or been content in a carrier for a bit, or napped. My kids would have been cranky as all get out had I wanted to interact with them 24/7. Babies like some chill-out time, too. Not for hours and hours a day, but 15 minutes here or there while I heat a can of soup, or put some laundry away, or wipe down a counter. Especially with toddlers, who can be taught to "help" with minor tasks or encouraged to play kitchen while you do kitchen tasks, etc. 

Just as you wouldn't work for someone who expected light housekeeping, I wouldn't hire someone who refused any cleaning and acted so disrespectful. If many moms like me can juggle raising multiple children, keeping their homes decently picked up (not white glove clean, just basic tidiness/decluttered), being wives, shuttling kids around, cooking meals, etc, then I should expect a full time nanny who is paid decently to expect to do light work associated with the kid(s) in her downtime. 

I also wanted to add that even in daycare centers, some work is expected. I know the teachers in my son's school (he attends a SN preschool with an infant center attached to it) are responsible for heating and serving meals, cleaning up from them, sweeping the floor and sanitizing the tables/highchairs after each meal, taking out diaper trash, cleaning up toys after each activity, wiping down counters, etc. Multiple times per day. And there are at least 3:1 ratios in those infant rooms. I know the people there don't get paid much, even. So it's apparently not totally out of the realm of expectation or ability. 

Theres a huge difference between leaving ONE non-mobile infant lying on a floor mat where you can see them and talk to them and be watchful of them while you're doing laundry, and leaving two, twin, one year olds (who are probably at the very lease crawling, and might be walking or cruising) while you try to do something.

I remember when my ds was 12mo, he'd been walking since he was 8.5mo and I literally couldn't take my eyes off of him for a MOMENT, let alone 10 minutes to do laundry.  It was terrible, my house was a complete mess b/c I couldn't do a single bit of cleaning unless he was asleep (well, I could but then he undid it and every other thing I cleaned in a matter of seconds and the place just never looked decent).

Especially since they probably don't sleep at all the same times, or need exactly the same thing all the time.  I can't imagine caring for twins - in fact, I wouldn't want to care for twins.  I'm sure they are wonderful and beautiful, and amazing.  I just can't imaging having TWO of my ds - makes me want to scream just thinking about it!

[kama'aina mama]

It's so hard to find good help these days.

[Lamashtu]

Originally Posted by kama'aina mama 

It's so hard to find good help these days.

Oh, don't I know it, dahling!

[amnesiac]

I would expect a nanny to do the things directly related to the daily hands-on care of the kids. I think keeping the bed linens, bibs, high chairs etc. clean on a weekly basis are a reasonable request & maybe some of those things just honestly never occurred to her. Perhaps just a simple request would fix it. 

I do think that other cleaning, washing dishes and shopping are a little much to expect. I would not expect a nanny to do any shopping, even for the kids' things, and I would not expect her to clean the kitchen/dishes/stove. If the trash issue is simply a matter of putting recyclables into the designated receptacle, I'd further explore with her why that's not happening though because that sounds reasonable to me.

[Cukup]

You want the nanny to set things up so that you have quality time with the kids when you are home? It doesn't work like that. She cares for your children in your absence, not to smooth your path when you get home.

You have so much help-nanny, housekeeper, weekend and evening babysitters...yet you are still unhappy. Something needs to change and I truly don't think it's wiping up the crumbs in the high chair.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Cukup 

You have so much help-nanny, housekeeper, weekend and evening babysitters...yet you are still unhappy. Something needs to change and I truly don't think it's wiping up the crumbs in the high chair.

I wonder if you might have more quality time with your kids if you shortened your work hours a bit?  With a daytime nanny, evening sitters, and weekend sitters do you ever just have a day at home?  I know its tough to manage it all, maybe you should simplify things a bit?

[Jane93]

Where has it ever been said I have weekend and evening baby-sitters?  My parents will watch the girls when we have an unavoidable commitment (on the level of the annual work Christmas party, or a wedding) but any other time, we are with the girls.  I specifically schedule my work to maximize my time with the girls (working from home both before they are up and after they are in bed, as necessary, and limit my actual in-office hours).

I may be sounding a little more bitter right now, as this month has been crazy (on track to have billed about double my basic billable hour requirement), however my work flow is very up and down, so you have to make hay while the sun shines.  And my income is 75% or more of the family income so there is not really another good option.

In any event, these items annoy me even when I'm not exhausted and incredibly busy -- there's something about coming home and having to clean up the kitchen a bit before you can make dinner (when you left it in perfectly fine shape in the morning) that's just incredibly frustrating to me.

Sorry -- I realize my tone is coming across rather stronger than my intent or feelings, but I really don't have the time or energy to re-edit to adjust it.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by Jane93 

In any event, these items annoy me even when I'm not exhausted and incredibly busy -- there's something about coming home and having to clean up the kitchen a bit before you can make dinner (when you left it in perfectly fine shape in the morning) that's just incredibly frustrating to me.

This would annoy me to. I think what a lot of us on here are/were responding to is all your other requests, which kind of clouded over the reasonable ones. It seems to me perfectly reasonable that the kitchen is about as clean as you left it -- at least most days, with flexibility for the occasional days when the kids required way more energy & attention than usual. Have you discussed this with your nanny yet? Have you narrowed down which thing(s) are most problematic for you, and which you'd be willing to let go of so she will have more time for what's important to you? Or maybe it would help if you have leftovers or something already prepared for the kids, so she won't have to do much in the kitchen in the first place? I really, really think you need to discuss this with your nanny, otherwise your resentment will just continue to grow & grow and you'll jeopardize what sounds like an otherwise great relationship.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by Jane93 

I honestly can't imagine having a full time nanny who doesn't do the kids laundry -- everyone I know who has a nanny includes that.  We are literally paying about double what a quality daycare for the girls would have cost, so the only real justification for that extra expenditure are these sort of services the nanny provides.

Double or no, you are paying for your kids to remain in *their* own home, and to have the nanny caring just for them, not a couple other kids.  You are asking a lot of her.  If she can get it all done in nap time AND have a break to eat, etc., that is one thing.  But I bet she is exhausted with two.  I have been a mom and a nanny and some of the things on the list would make me feel really like a maid if my employer OR my husband expected them of me while I was caring for our kids.

[HollyBearsMom]

You mentioned having family for nights/weekends and it was implied this happened often, you also mentioned having a weekly housekeeper/cleaner and the added expense of having your kids enrolled in "social activities". 

If your income is 75% or more of the total what would your household income look like if you got rid of the nanny, the housekeeper and the paid social activities and had your partner stay home? Would that help limit the stress, especially since you admit that you don't really like being household manger/boss?

Or why not try consolidating some things-get rid of the nanny and the paid extra curricular activities and enroll them in a high quality daycare.  This would give them the social exposure you want and would allow you cut the housekeeper down to every other week or even just once a month 

That said have you actually spoken with your nanny? Maybe this would all be a non issue if you actually talked with her.
 

Originally Posted by Jane93 

Where has it ever been said I have weekend and evening baby-sitters?  My parents will watch the girls when we have an unavoidable commitment (on the level of the annual work Christmas party, or a wedding) but any other time, we are with the girls.  I specifically schedule my work to maximize my time with the girls (working from home both before they are up and after they are in bed, as necessary, and limit my actual in-office hours).

I may be sounding a little more bitter right now, as this month has been crazy (on track to have billed about double my basic billable hour requirement), however my work flow is very up and down, so you have to make hay while the sun shines.  And my income is 75% or more of the family income so there is not really another good option.

In any event, these items annoy me even when I'm not exhausted and incredibly busy -- there's something about coming home and having to clean up the kitchen a bit before you can make dinner (when you left it in perfectly fine shape in the morning) that's just incredibly frustrating to me.

Sorry -- I realize my tone is coming across rather stronger than my intent or feelings, but I really don't have the time or energy to re-edit to adjust it.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom 

You mentioned having family for nights/weekends and it was implied this happened often...

I thought she just meant that, to keep her nanny's hours to 40/week, family members will watch the kids in the interim if there's a gap between when the nanny leaves and when the OP or her partner gets home. I didn't take it that she and her partner were frequently spending evenings out on the town or anything. 

[Jane93]

We are having a short meeting this Friday to discuss how everything is working from both our perspective and the nanny's.  So hopefully it will be a positive discussion about how to make sure the whole household is working well together and help ensure that both sides are satisfied.

My partner not working not a great option for us because (a) he doesn't want to be a SAHD, (b) we have run the numbers as if he were going to become SAH, and economically it makes a lot of sense for him to continue to work and (c) from my perspective, the weight of being the main breadwinner is hefty enough without the added responsibility of becoming the sole breadwinner.  I also don't think that the household would be better managed with him being SAH.  I'm sure there are SAHDs who do the same kind of job (in terms of household management) that a SAHM does, I've just never personally witnessed it.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by Jane93 

We are having a short meeting this Friday to discuss how everything is working from both our perspective and the nanny's.  So hopefully it will be a positive discussion about how to make sure the whole household is working well together and help ensure that both sides are satisfied.

My partner not working not a great option for us because (a) he doesn't want to be a SAHD, (b) we have run the numbers as if he were going to become SAH, and economically it makes a lot of sense for him to continue to work and (c) from my perspective, the weight of being the main breadwinner is hefty enough without the added responsibility of becoming the sole breadwinner.  I also don't think that the household would be better managed with him being SAH.  I'm sure there are SAHDs who do the same kind of job (in terms of household management) that a SAHM does, I've just never personally witnessed it.

Yeah!  I hope it goes well.  I will keep my fingers crossed for you.  Allowing tension in an employee/employer relationship is always bad news!

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by limabean 

I thought she just meant that, to keep her nanny's hours to 40/week, family members will watch the kids in the interim if there's a gap between when the nanny leaves and when the OP or her partner gets home. I didn't take it that she and her partner were frequently spending evenings out on the town or anything. 

I assumed she was working really long hours - I think she's an attorney, and lots of attorney's work incredibly long hours.

OP - I really hope your meeting with the nanny goes well Friday!!!

[tinuviel_k]

I hope your meeting goes well!

[Jane93]

Thanks, I appreciate it.  I am feeling better just having the meeting scheduled (though a bit apprehensive too).

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Jane93 

In any event, these items annoy me even when I'm not exhausted and incredibly busy -- there's something about coming home and having to clean up the kitchen a bit before you can make dinner (when you left it in perfectly fine shape in the morning) that's just incredibly frustrating to me.

I know your meeting is friday, but I just wanted to touch on this a tad.  Upthread you mentioned crumbs in the high chair being annoying, but that seems like a smaller peice of what I quoted above.  Maybe you should focus on wanting the counters cleared off, and the dishwasher loaded, and leave the high chair issue be.  I know how frustrating it is to have to do dishes before starting dinner, and I'm the only one that cooks in my house (I'm single, ds is in daycare during the day) - but crumbs aren't preventing you from cooking, even though they are annoying. 

Anyway, I still hope it goes well, and I hope you can come to an agreement with your nanny!

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by limabean 

I thought she just meant that, to keep her nanny's hours to 40/week, family members will watch the kids in the interim if there's a gap between when the nanny leaves and when the OP or her partner gets home. I didn't take it that she and her partner were frequently spending evenings out on the town or anything. 

The OP said that her nanny doesn't work more than 40 hours and that she has a 60-hour work week, then that they have weekend and evening sitters. She mentioned working at home after bedtime, but I didn't assume that was part of the 60 hours. At any rate, to have a 60-hour work week with the nanny there for 40 (and assuming M-F work week), the OP is working 2 hours, getting ready for office work, commuting, working 8 hours, commuting back home, being with her kids, and working 2 hours after bedtime. OP, I don't see how that's a sustainable schedule. You're only a few months in, and you really sound like you're about the crack under the pressure already. Your girls are mobile, but they will require more of you as they get older, not less. I also found that keeping up with the messes of a 2-3 year old was much harder than the messes of a 1YO in general. I don't see this situation as improving unless you make some drastic changes.
 

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by Jane93 
Also, she is virtually never asked to work more than 40 hours (been about twice since we hired her).   We have family that watches the girls for evening and weekend stuff. 

Originally Posted by Jane93 

However, that time is my break time from a 60 some hour a week job, as well as my opportunity to really focus on the kids, so housework does take the back seat. 

These two statements are the reason people assumed you have weekend and evening sitters often. I point them out partly because you seemed to be getting huffy about being misunderstood. 

As for the kitchen, I would consider asking the nanny to make meals that don't require a ton of dishes. Really, breakfast and lunch for 1YOs isn't a complicated affair. It should be accomplished without much scrubbing of pans or washing of dishes needed.
 

Edited by VisionaryMom - 3/29/11 at 4:24pm