How do I get him to leave? (Trying to protect the kids) Or at least tolerate him till this is...

[monkeybum]

I am beyond frustrated and need a way to get my STBX out of my house. We have discussed separating over the years, but I finally made up my mind last year in the spring and told him to move out.  (There is no violence or anything, we just fight all the time and we are both very unhappy in the marriage, and there are a number of other reasons I want to end the marriage that I won't go in to in this thread).  He went to live at his mother's house for two weeks, and then showed up begging to try again.  We "tried" to get along but again I had finally had enough in November and told him I mean it, I want to separate and he has to find somewhere else to live.  He just says "I'm not going anywhere" then goes on as if everything is fine.

Between November and now I keep telling him it's over, I'm leaving him, that he doesn't get to decide that we are staying together, and that he needs to accept that we are separating and find somewhere to live.  But he just keeps saying "I'm not going anywhere, if you want to separate then you have to move out".

I have two little boys, 4 and 7.  My younger son is VERY sensitive to any kind of change and is inconsolable if even so much as our morning routine changes.  My 7 year old has been to 4 different schools in the last 5 years and has had a very hard time adjusting, he is FINALLY settled in to his new school after we moved here a year-and-a-half ago, and I do not want to make him move again (both boys took a very long time to adjust to just moving houses).

Because of the interest rate we got on our current house and the deal we got, I cannot afford to move to another house in the current school cachement area, but I can afford to stay in our current home on my own, even after paying him half the equity.  I do not want to disrupt the boys and sell their home just because he won't leave.

STBX and I are normally on fairly good terms, but I have always known he could have a mean streak in there somewhere (that I've yet to see, but have seen bubble up a few times) and I don't want to do something drastic like change the locks or just pack up his stuff for two reasons 1) I'm not sure he won't get really mean and nasty; we are trying to do Collaborative Divorce, and 2) I know he would just bang on the door and ring the doorbell until one of the kids lets him in, and it would be upsetting to them as I know it would turn in to a big thing.

I make really good money and he has said time and time again he wants me to support him, (he even said he is going to try to get spousal support for life if we actually do separate).  He has admitted several times that he wants to stay together for financial reasons (where he benefits).  He will not accept that this is over, even up until this morning, he says that I just don't know what I want, and that I need to give us some time to work through things, and that we should go to counseling (again, we've gone many times).  But I am done, it is over for me.  How do I get him to see that, and to move out?

This has been going on for a year now - me saying its over and telling him to move out, him refusing.  I cannot stand living with him any longer, and I cannot stand his denial and pretending things are ok.  I need to move on for my own mental health.  Any suggestions on how to do this if he won't leave?? 

Note: I'm in Canada, so laws may differ here.

[MariesMama]

Does he work outside of the home?  Who cares for the children more? 

I ask because there's a big difference between a SAHD and a guy who works 6 days a week and spends the rest of his time playing video games.

How do you two split household expenses?

[MissLotus]

I don't get if you have a lawyer?  Basically he knows you're just making idle threats if you're not making any of this legal.  So you need to get a lawyer and get serious.

I had a friend who about a year ago was starting the divorce process and her stbx would not leave the house.  She and her lawyer had to file something with the court and the judge set a date that stbx had to be out.  Clearly at this point simply saying, "You gotta go," isn't working.

[SoulCakes]

I don't really know how this works, but wouldn't you decide who gets to reside in the family home during the divorce? If he won't agree to let you keep the house on his own or with mediation, it may be time to lawyer up.

[provocativa]

I can only answer for what happens in the states.  Document the situation with your kids any way you can- counselor, teachers, etc.  If he is the one who starts fights and /or yells the most or is threatening document this too.  Here, voice recordings are only legal in some states, but paper records with dates and times and events work elsewhere.  When you file for divorce, there is a temporary separation order which includes who lives where and who gets custody, etc.  You and your lawyer will assert that this is the best, most stable place for your kids and present your reasons.  This happens in a mediation room with your lawyer, and his, and a professional mediator.  If you can't get him to agree in mediation, then the matter goes before the judge.  And the judge finds for you to stay in the house, because it is obviously the most stable place for the kids.  It's kind of a given.   We had to move and stay with my mom for like 3 weeks after my X's last outburst, and then move back to our house.  The kids were freaking out about losing our house at that point.  We are 7 months down the road from that now, and we have talked about it many times and they understand that the judge may give my X the house because I don't have enough credit to get a mortgage in my name- and they are not freaked about it now.

[darcytrue]

yeah that!

Originally Posted by MissLotus 

I don't get if you have a lawyer?  Basically he knows you're just making idle threats if you're not making any of this legal.  So you need to get a lawyer and get serious.

[monkeybum]

I finally did talk to a lawyer, someone recommend to me who is supposed to be very good and I really like her, but I'm ripping my hair out b/c she said "no, you can't make him move out".  She just said to wait it out until we've resolved everything through the Collaborative Divorce process.  This could take months and I can't stand living with him as we work through this.

I am the primary caregiver.  He works until 11pm through the week and is not that involved with the kids on the weekends (he is depressed and tends to sleep all day on the weekends, or he is out with his brothers).  He has also been suicidal over the last year (and told me this morning that he has been thinking of suicide very recently) so I don't think the courts would ever consider that he should be the primary caregiver or that he even could be.  He also would not want to be, (most of the time he acts like the kids are an inconvenience to him).  He also can't afford to stay in the house on his own, while I can.  I have told him I will pay him half of the equity in our house and whatever he is entitled to in spousal support.  He says he doesn't want to move out until that is all settled, but he won't partake in the process to make it happen or even keep the ball rolling.  It could take a year to sort through that.

He told me today that he will only agree to spousal support for life, (legally I only have to pay him for 5 years as our marriage is less than 10 years) but we would hit 10 years this coming August so part of me wonders if he's trying to stall to hit the 10 year mark or I don't know what.  Basically he has it good and he doesn't want to get off the "gravy train".

I wonder if there is some kind of interim order or something that would require him to move out.  I also wonder at what point we can consider ourselves "separated" so I can start to pull the financials to determine our total equity (so we can then split it).  He took his own bedroom when we mvoed in to this house years ago and we have not had sex since.

Arg!  Sometimes I just wish I could go back in time and NOT pick him to marry!

[MissLotus]

I see you're in Canada so maybe there are some things I don't understand.  But is this "Collaborative Divorce" optional?  Or just what you and stbx decided to do?  Is the lawyer saying you have to wait it out IF you want to continue on doing it the "collaborative" way? 

In other words - what about a good old-fashioned divorce filing - you have a lawyer - he has a lawyer.  I know none of it is fun, but it would seem that Collaborative Divorce only works if you can both... collaborate. 

If there are indeed options other than Collaborative Divorce, I would go that route.  Also, consult with other lawyers.  I consulted with 8 of them, before I gave one a retainer fee; I found their approaches to be wildly different.  Some (most... okay, pretty much all) were lazy and tried to convince me to go by the book because they knew that was easiest to get passed by a judge.  Most thought that getting money should be my aim, while I wanted to tread carefully on money issues as my real concern was visitation and my son's stability.  My point is, don't take the answer of one lawyer as the Final Answer.  I've never heard of anyone being forced to live with their husband forever until he felt like leaving!

And that fact that he wants spousal support for life... !!!!  I don't get why you have to give it to him at all, especially if you're the primary caregiver!  I would stop trying to "collaborate", and get a lawyer working solely for YOU.  Also, do NOT make any further offers to him until you have a lawyer you're comfortable with who understands what your aims are. 

[SoulCakes]

Originally Posted by MissLotus 

I see you're in Canada so maybe there are some things I don't understand.  But is this "Collaborative Divorce" optional?  Or just what you and stbx decided to do?  Is the lawyer saying you have to wait it out IF you want to continue on doing it the "collaborative" way? 

In other words - what about a good old-fashioned divorce filing - you have a lawyer - he has a lawyer.  I know none of it is fun, but it would seem that Collaborative Divorce only works if you can both... collaborate. 

If there are indeed options other than Collaborative Divorce, I would go that route.  Also, consult with other lawyers.  I consulted with 8 of them, before I gave one a retainer fee; I found their approaches to be wildly different.  Some (most... okay, pretty much all) were lazy and tried to convince me to go by the book because they knew that was easiest to get passed by a judge.  Most thought that getting money should be my aim, while I wanted to tread carefully on money issues as my real concern was visitation and my son's stability.  My point is, don't take the answer of one lawyer as the Final Answer.  I've never heard of anyone being forced to live with their husband forever until he felt like leaving!

And that fact that he wants spousal support for life... !!!!  I don't get why you have to give it to him at all, especially if you're the primary caregiver!  I would stop trying to "collaborate", and get a lawyer working solely for YOU.  Also, do NOT make any further offers to him until you have a lawyer you're comfortable with who understands what your aims are. 

ITA with all of this. The collaborative route only works if you're both on the same page and willing to cooperate, which he obviously isn't. Again, I have no idea how it works in Canada, but surely the clock would stop ticking on the marriage if you file for divorce now (i.e., he wouldn't be eligible for more than five years support if you get the divorce ball rolling before August.). I agree with Miss Lotus, consult some more lawyers and start the process now, rather than just twiddling your thumbs in frustration while he drags this out.

Good luck!

[provocativa]

I agree, he's stalling for the 10 year mark.  Find another lawyer, and make it clear in the interview that you do not think that collaborative divorce is a possibility.  I don't really like my lawyer, she's kind of dry and bitchy, but she will use that against the other parties, and she is competent, and she herself was married to an alcoholic so she understands my issues.

[Petronella]

Originally Posted by monkeybum 

I finally did talk to a lawyer, someone recommend to me who is supposed to be very good and I really like her, but I'm ripping my hair out b/c she said "no, you can't make him move out".  She just said to wait it out until we've resolved everything through the Collaborative Divorce process.  This could take months and I can't stand living with him as we work through this.

I am the primary caregiver.  He works until 11pm through the week and is not that involved with the kids on the weekends (he is depressed and tends to sleep all day on the weekends, or he is out with his brothers).  He has also been suicidal over the last year (and told me this morning that he has been thinking of suicide very recently) so I don't think the courts would ever consider that he should be the primary caregiver or that he even could be.  He also would not want to be, (most of the time he acts like the kids are an inconvenience to him).  He also can't afford to stay in the house on his own, while I can.  I have told him I will pay him half of the equity in our house and whatever he is entitled to in spousal support.  He says he doesn't want to move out until that is all settled, but he won't partake in the process to make it happen or even keep the ball rolling.  It could take a year to sort through that.

He told me today that he will only agree to spousal support for life, (legally I only have to pay him for 5 years as our marriage is less than 10 years) but we would hit 10 years this coming August so part of me wonders if he's trying to stall to hit the 10 year mark or I don't know what.  Basically he has it good and he doesn't want to get off the "gravy train".

I wonder if there is some kind of interim order or something that would require him to move out.  I also wonder at what point we can consider ourselves "separated" so I can start to pull the financials to determine our total equity (so we can then split it).  He took his own bedroom when we mvoed in to this house years ago and we have not had sex since.

Arg!  Sometimes I just wish I could go back in time and NOT pick him to marry!

It sounds as though this is exactly what he's trying to do.  Please forget about this "collaborative divorce."  I've read your posts about your husband before and there is nothing "collaborative" about him. 

[doubledutch]

just get moving as fast as you can.  file now - yes it could take "months" but you could also be totally done with this by august, or even if you're not, you will have been in the divorce process, legally, for five months, and that will really help you avoid this "lifetime spousal support" bs.

in terms of keeping your sanity, learn to disengage from him.  come up with a few simple lines and repeat them.  (such as, "i really don't have anything else to say about that," and "hmm, that's interesting.")  since he works so much, plan other stuff for you and your boys to do during his non-working hours.  be out of the house.