Organic honey?

[ammiga]

How important do you think organic honey is? We go through so much honey in our house, and I've been buying organic honey. But I can get non-organic at Costco for so much less. Is organic honey an expense that you think is worth the cost?

[Drummer's Wife]

I think raw honey is important, personally.  Bonus if it's local.  My walmart even sells raw honey, so it's not hard to find.  Organic, raw honey would be best if that's what you are asking about. 

[ammiga]

I don't know anything about raw honey. Is it healthier? More expensive?

I'm trying to keep our grocery bills down a bit, and getting honey at Costco is so much cheaper.

Is regular honey treated with something or are the flowers sprayed? Any clue if that stuff gets into the honey?

[ammiga]

I should also add that I bake with the honey. Would that affect whether or not the honey should be raw?

[Holiztic]

I would HIGHLY recommend buying raw honey and NEVER cooking with it.  Use maple syrup instead.

http://www.ojas.us/faq.html#honey

[Mrshawwk]

I buy 5 gallons of raw honey at a time from Azure. It's cheap enough for me that I still bake with it. I have heard things about regular every day store honey is often from bees fed high fructose corn syrup, so I avoid that. But if I was desperate, I would bake with Costco honey and get raw honey for other things.

I personally don't care about honey being organic.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by Mrshawwk 

I buy 5 gallons of raw honey at a time from Azure. It's cheap enough for me that I still bake with it. I have heard things about regular every day store honey is often from bees fed high fructose corn syrup, so I avoid that. But if I was desperate, I would bake with Costco honey and get raw honey for other things.

I personally don't care about honey being organic.

Do you have a link for the honey you buy?

[Sol_y_Paz]

Another idea, is baking sweet things less an option to keep the budget in check?  

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by Sol_y_Paz 

Another idea, is baking sweet things less an option to keep the budget in check?  

It's not like we live on sweets. I use honey to make our bread, to make healthy snacks, and sometimes to make a sweet treat. I think what we do is quite healthy, and am open to ideas like using maple if honey isn't as healthy as I thought, but not to eliminating things from our already very healthy diet.

[bird_verde]

My dh is a beekeeper.  The thing about bees is that you can't control where they go - which garden, which flower, which treated or untreated field.  I looked up the certification on organic honey once and I think the beehives have to be placed in a spot where there is no pesticides or chemicals used within a 3-mile radius.  That is pretty far thus the cost is huge in order to guarantee that!  It is best to try and buy raw honey from local beekeepers if at all possible.  The price will be reasonable, the raw honey will have its natural enzymes and minerals, your local beekeepr probably didn't feed their bees high fructose corn syrup (but ask to make sure), the hives were most likely placed in a field, garden or orchard rich with blooming plants where little or no pesticide was used (pesticide kills bees too and beekeepers don't like to lose bees).  TO find local honey sources, do a search for beekeeping associations in your area or contact your state bee inspector (every state has one - usually through a dept of agriculture or a cooperative extention). 

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by bird_verde 

My dh is a beekeeper.  The thing about bees is that you can't control where they go - which garden, which flower, which treated or untreated field.  I looked up the certification on organic honey once and I think the beehives have to be placed in a spot where there is no pesticides or chemicals used within a 3-mile radius.  That is pretty far thus the cost is huge in order to guarantee that!  It is best to try and buy raw honey from local beekeepers if at all possible.  The price will be reasonable, the raw honey will have its natural enzymes and minerals, your local beekeepr probably didn't feed their bees high fructose corn syrup (but ask to make sure), the hives were most likely placed in a field, garden or orchard rich with blooming plants where little or no pesticide was used (pesticide kills bees too and beekeepers don't like to lose bees).  TO find local honey sources, do a search for beekeeping associations in your area or contact your state bee inspector (every state has one - usually through a dept of agriculture or a cooperative extention). 

Excellent information, thank you!

Do you (or does your husband) know anything about bees and antibiotics? I found one local place that said they don't give antibiotics to their bees as a preventative measure. That struck me as odd... do most places do that? I never even thought of ever giving bees antibiotics.

[Toolip]

I am a beekeeper too, just as a hobby.

First of all, I do not think that maple is a better option. A friend of mine is doing some independent lab testing and all of the maple syrup they have tested so far has been positive for formaldehyde (even the organic) so I would be leery of that.

I personally feel that organic (or unmediated honey) is VERY important for health and environmental reasons. Giving antibiotics (and antivirals, mite poisons, anti-fungals, etc...) is STANDARD prophylactic treatment. Everyone does it. It is unhealthy for the bee population and it is unhealthy for us to consume.

Ray honey is also important because other honey is pasteurized and loses it's enzymes.

[bird_verde]

Originally Posted by Toolip 

I personally feel that organic (or unmediated honey) is VERY important for health and environmental reasons. Giving antibiotics (and antivirals, mite poisons, anti-fungals, etc...) is STANDARD prophylactic treatment. Everyone does it. It is unhealthy for the bee population and it is unhealthy for us to consume.

Ray honey is also important because other honey is pasteurized and loses it's enzymes.

Yes, antibiotics, antivirals, pesticides (for mites) are standard preventative treatments especially in larger operations. (If you found a source that doesn't do this, great.)  And I agree that it is unhealthy to do all of these things as preventative measures as is makes the disease and pests stronger (thus beekeepers have to change preventative medications/treatments every one-two years).  However, wtih local sources  of honey, you can find people that use organic methods of raising their bees (but can't get certified because of the large land radius required) or you can find beekeepers that only medicate or treat hives when they are confirmed to be infected (this is what we do in addition to experimenting with organic preventative measures). Generally, smaller operations or hobbist beekeepers have less of a need to medicate/treat - their hives are typically healthier or they jsut die and they raise a new hive in its place.  Also, infected hives are weak and are not producing honey. With local sources, where the producer eats his own honey, it is unlikely that they will harvest, collect or encourage honey production for human consumption while bees are treated.  If one of our hives is infected, it generally needs a whole year to build backup again. So it may get treated or medicated and then given a year or so to build up the hive again before we try to harvest honey from it.  Not everyone does it the same way, it is good to ask if they use preventative medications or treatments. 

I also wanted to add that raw honey from a local source is delicious and I think the value of the natural enzymes plus the pollen and propylis are great for your health!  It is a fantastic product that my daughter will eat by the spoonful (but she has yet to taste a drop of commerical honey from a store that she likes).  Yet, if you are using it mostly for baking, the heat from baking will kill the enzymes anyway and then paying for "raw" may not be as necessary (but from a local and good source is still important).  Many beekeepers also use heat in the honey extraction process to make the extraction go quicker, aid in filtering the liquid honey and to produce a product that is more clear and appealing to the consumer market. 

[lilbsmama]

You best bet would be to find a local beekeeper and buy from the,. Raw, local is the way to go, esp. if you are using it for allergies. Organic honey is a hoax, IMO.

[Toolip]

Originally Posted by lilbsmama 

You best bet would be to find a local beekeeper and buy from the,. Raw, local is the way to go, esp. if you are using it for allergies. Organic honey is a hoax, IMO.

I don't think organic honey is a hoax. Why do you say that?

I agree that you don't need certified organic. I think local honey is awesome (and by far the BEST choice) and I buy all kinds of "organically grown" things that aren't certified organic. Just because a beekeeper is small and local, does not mean that they are using organic practices, in my experience anyway. I am part of a local beekeeping group here and I know of myself and 2 other people (out of 100+ beekeepers) who don't do prophylactic treatments. At least here, it's really, really common to treat aggressively. And I live in a pretty eco-groovy area. Just know your beekeeper!

[lilbsmama]

It takes a lot of resources to ensure against contamination, either by wind or by bee travel, of the bees’ forage by non-organic pollen. Many beekeepers find it unfeasible for them to keep up with the stringent organic guidelines specified by the government.  For honey to be certified organic, the manufacturer has to meet a set of very stringent organic standards and conditions during the honey production (set by a organic agriculture certification body), which include source of the nectar,  foraging area, bees management, honey extracting process, transportation, processing temperature, and packaging materials. Honey that claims to be organic is also tested to guarantee that it does not contain any residues of pesticides or environmental pollutants. Farming of organic honey has to meet rigorous and extensive monitoring and testing criteria of the certification body, for instance, the documentation of, and consultation with every land user within a five kilometer radius of the organic hives to ensure they are free of chemical residue; regular analysis and testing of honey samples; and hives have to be proven free of non-organic honey, sugar and antibiotics. Not really a hoax, I don't really know what I was thinking when i used that word. My FIL and aunt are both beekeepers in NC and have both told me that it is damn near impossible to maintain an organic bee farm, too many uncontrollable variables.