At what point would you consider getting outside help re preschoolers and inappropriate touch?

[Boot]

Decided to remove the details 

Edited by Boot - 4/9/11 at 6:44pm

[Dandelionkid]

I would seriously consider if your ds has been sexually abused or has had access to porn. This does not seem withing the realm of normal for a four yr old child :(

[pbjmama]

I would seek a professional opinion. I would also be very cautious about what professional you choose. It does not automatically mean your ds has been molested or abused but I would consider it and I would consider if the little girl in this scenario has been exposed to inappropriate sexual stuff. I wonder if this isn't a forbidden fruit scenario?

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by Dandelionkid 

I would seriously consider if your ds has been sexually abused or has had access to porn. This does not seem withing the realm of normal for a four yr old child :(

I agree with this.  How deeply did you go into sex education with him?  If you included some of the things parents do with each other that may be part of it.  You should also bring it up with his teachers and ask if they have noticed other kids doing this also or if it seems to stem from your son.  Kids this age share everything so it could be another child who has been abused, has access to his parents magazines, has seen movies with sex scenes, or had a very detailed sex talk sharing their knowledge with the class.  My dd at that age knew about a lot of things I never once introduced her to so I don't think it is impossible for him to be exposed to a lot of information that you aren't ever planning to tell him about like that some people put their penises in each others' mouths.

[4evermom]

I'll admit I'd be quite concerned about that situation, especially since it is encompassing other children.  And I'd supervise the kids at all times during playdates.  But the penis in mouth concept came to my ds as an extension of breastfeeding.  He realized that his penis was closer to a lactating breast than his own tiny nipple.  It was an eye opener to me that the concept could come from such an innocent place.  I can also see that talking about the behavior could escalate it by bringing more focus on it.  Saying things like "we keep our clothes on when we have company" might work better than saying "don't take your clothes off" just the way that sort of positive phrasing helps with toddlers.

[ElliesMomma]

i think you should strongly consider getting some help for this issue, especially if your son is also exhibiting other problems. somehow the behavior has got to stop! it may seem innocent at age 3, yet if it were to continue and he was still doing it at, say, age 7... ?? 

has your son had instruction in how private parts are private? 

ETA: i just reread your post and i see that you have had "the talk," but has it been an ongoing conversation? it should be. and i am also a bit confused, what do you mean by remaining "neutral" on the whole situation where he had his penis in the girl's mouth? does that mean he was not punished for it? you did express to him that it was inappropriate, right? and that you are concerned about where he learned to do this, and when did he start doing this, and who has he done this with? has he ever done this with a grown up? has he ever seen a grown up do this? has he seen pictures of a grown up doing this? and that he has to stop doing this because if it were to continue, he could find himself in very severe trouble, and not necessarily with just you.

i think you posted last night, and were about to call the mom of the other boy -- how did she take the news? 

Edited by ElliesMomma - 3/12/11 at 10:44pm

[LynnS6]

I'd consider professional consultation when I hear "penis in mouth" and "secret" for either child. It could be innocent, I suppose, but the fact that the little girl asked your ds to do this is a HUGE red flag for me that she may have been molested. I know 3-4 year olds who touch each other's genitals, but to put her mouth on his penis? Nope. The fact that your son has done this with other children suggests to me that he may need some help processing this. You sound like you've been clear about private areas (and yes, it does need to be a continual conversation), and that your son isn't to do this. Yet your son is continuing to do this with other kids and he wants it to be a secret. Why? I would be completely out of my depth and want a professional opinion.

[chaimom]

I agree with the others.  I'm not sure that it means any of the children have been molested, but they're certainly too focused on private parts.  It's obviously a situation that is concerning and needs to end.  You've tried what you know how to do, yet it continues.  So I do think you should involve a professional and see what else you can do and how you can handle it.  I definitely wouldn't let him be unchaperoned during playdates in the future. 

[Boot]

Edited by Boot - 4/9/11 at 6:45pm

[chaimom]

Hmmm.  I'm not sure I'd want to involve the preschool.  They might be obligated to call authorities and maybe authorities should be involved, but I'm not so sure.  Personally, I would talk to my own professional first, about how to handle it, before going to the school.  The professional might also have ideas on how to deal with the school.  Just my opinion, though.  Sounds like you're on top of it and figuring out how to deal with it.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by chaimom 

Hmmm.  I'm not sure I'd want to involve the preschool.  They might be obligated to call authorities and maybe authorities should be involved, but I'm not so sure.  Personally, I would talk to my own professional first, about how to handle it, before going to the school.  The professional might also have ideas on how to deal with the school.  Just my opinion, though.  Sounds like you're on top of it and figuring out how to deal with it.

Sex stuff of all kinds is very normal in preschool and this isn't grounds for a call on its own.  If they have seen a lot of worrying signs from one child this may put that over the edge and warrant a call, but by itself that shouldn't be a concern.  They may be doing something already to deal with some of this or they have dealt with things like this in the past and can give some good ideas for how to redirect this.  We had kids who would lie on top of each other and kiss when I worked in preschool and the teacher I worked under just told them we don't lay on each other at school, it took care of the problem without making a big deal of it.  My dd had a doctor experience and got a scratch on her tummy when she was in preschool and they had a nice group talk about private bodies and keeping clothes on at school.  Teachers often have a really good idea about what is normal, do very effective talks with kids, know where the problem is stemming from and can stay more vigilant in redirecting it when they get input letting them know that more vigilance is needed, how to redirect gently, and when a problem is beyond redirection and requires more help.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by chaimom 

Hmmm.  I'm not sure I'd want to involve the preschool.  They might be obligated to call authorities and maybe authorities should be involved, but I'm not so sure.  Personally, I would talk to my own professional first, about how to handle it, before going to the school.  The professional might also have ideas on how to deal with the school.  Just my opinion, though.  Sounds like you're on top of it and figuring out how to deal with it.

Any professional you involve will be obligated to report to the authorities if they think there's evidence of abuse. Both preschools and professionals are mandated reporters. Personally, I'd start with the preschool because they know, as someone else pointed out, what the range of typical is and whether this has been an issue in class.