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do you vaccinate? - Page 16

post #301 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitat View Post




Nope. I bet they love bottled water, too. winky.gif
  I'm sure that, typically, the majority of them believe that the vaccinations aren't bad for their children, the same way that they believe that they're not exploiting anyone to make and distribute their product. The same way that they believe that their larger-than-life lifestyles aren't toxic for the environment that their children will inherit. Because it depends on who you ask. If you put a bunch of rich, white, privileged males in a room and ask them to make decisions on behalf of everyone in the nation, who do you think will be most adequately represented?  We all stand behind some less-than-honorable things that we do, because we believe that we gain from it and money is about self-interest. I struggle with eating cheese. I know people who believe that cheese consumption and farming is an awful, unthinkable thing to do, and I know some people who live by the 80's government food pyramid. Some people promote vaccines, disregarding the fact that who they most benefit are the elite. Fine, but I won't inject my child, thank you very much. I'd much prefer to get whooping cough. Where the garlic at?



 



I don't have billions of dollars behind me so that I can conduct studies which bend in directions that will make me feel better about my choices to exploit others, but some groups do. I'm not naive enough to think that anyone's infallible just because they have prestige or have been published to rave review, or that there are enough checks-and-balances to render money obsolete. To me, the CDC might as well be the pope. I'll take his answers into account, but I probably won't bet my life on them because damn, that guy walks around in some fancy clothes. Money will become obsolete in huge universally-pertinant decisions when money no longer exists. I'm not holding my breath that the CDC will account for the truth before they'll account for the needs of their lobbyists. I'm not going to hold my breath that as individuals, they've all researched the vaccines and applied their personal research to their children's health. These things tend to work by the trickle-down effect, and they're smothered in sugary-sweet language that makes it easier for the next person in line to accept and promote the idea. I know that lots of questionable things are promoted because of who they profit, regardless of the integrity of each individual involved. I know, because this is not the only realm in which it is happening. I think Monsanto. I think Arizona immigration laws. I think Nestle. I think circumcision. I think USDA "organic" (can you say farmer exploitation? pesticides??). I think hospital birth trauma and birth rape. I think of ritilin-pushing and over-diagnoses of "behavior problems" in schools. I think of anti-homebirth legislation. In fact, I think of legislation that is currently trying to change the definition of rape so that they can disregard the coming-out of some rape victims. Disgusting. Unhealthy. Reality.



 



If you must call me names, then yes, I'm a "conspiracy theorist". Are home-birthers conspiracy theorists, too? I mean, I believe that there are people who are willing to do a lot for money. Maybe it helps that I'm an emotionally/socially intellectual person too, but I doubt many would take that into consideration when they're trying to promote the medical genius / ethical infallibility of drug companies and the government that they pay to ruthlessly promote their product. 

 



There have been a number of so-called "civil rights movements" that have overturned negative promotions by the government. Once, you would have had to disagree with the law to believe that schools should be racially integrated. It turns out, many people with positions of power have bias, too! Whoduthunkit?



 



Again, pass the garlic.



 





What's wrong with bottled water and USDA organic foods? Just wondering...I know it's off-topic but maybe you could pm me a few resources to get me started. Thank you. smile.gif
post #302 of 345

i dont vaccinate any of my kids

 

herbal remidies and alternative medicines all cure disease (accapuncture, herbs, urine therapy, yoga)

 

dont need vaccinations

post #303 of 345

I'm struggling with the vaccination decision as well. My baby is due in January and I know for sure that we are going to delay vaccination for at least a year. And at that time we are going to select which vaccines are really worth the risks. I would love to be anti vaccine, but it's just not realistic to me. I also can't imagine injecting a vaccine into my child for a disease he is so unlikely to come into contact with, or for a disease that really doesn't seem as scary as the vaccine itself. This is such a personal decision. My neighbor has 5 children, all of them had reactions to vaccinations. Why she continued to vaccinate them, I don't know, but she has 5 children who all responded the same way and her struggle is what made me do the research in the first place. I know that most children respond just fine to the immunizations, but the chance isn't worth the risk to me. We will vaccinate on a delayed schedule and only introduce one vaccine at a time to our little boy. 

post #304 of 345
The good news is, despite all the time we spend bickering around here about it, in the current climate in the US the overwhelming odds are your child is going to be ok either way. Sometimes we need to just make the best decision we can and let ourselves off the hook.
post #305 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

The good news is, despite all the time we spend bickering around here about it, in the current climate in the US the overwhelming odds are your child is going to be ok either way. Sometimes we need to just make the best decision we can and let ourselves off the hook.

Dammit, Rrrrrachel, that's much too sensible and level-headed for this forum. Knock it off before I rat you out to the mods. winky.gif
post #306 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krissyann View Post

I'm struggling with the vaccination decision as well. My baby is due in January and I know for sure that we are going to delay vaccination for at least a year. And at that time we are going to select which vaccines are really worth the risks. I would love to be anti vaccine, but it's just not realistic to me. I also can't imagine injecting a vaccine into my child for a disease he is so unlikely to come into contact with, or for a disease that really doesn't seem as scary as the vaccine itself. This is such a personal decision. My neighbor has 5 children, all of them had reactions to vaccinations. Why she continued to vaccinate them, I don't know, but she has 5 children who all responded the same way and her struggle is what made me do the research in the first place. I know that most children respond just fine to the immunizations, but the chance isn't worth the risk to me. We will vaccinate on a delayed schedule and only introduce one vaccine at a time to our little boy. 

Actually, we really don't know that.....not by a longshot.  With all the illness and debilitating issues in today's kids, i'm willing to bet, most kids did not respond  'just fine' to their vaccinations.  

post #307 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by oaktreemama View Post


And I don't know a single person who has had a serious reaction to a vaccine-let alone died.


I know someone. She got the swine flu vaccine, developed guillain barre, and was dead two weeks later.
post #308 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by eireann View Post


I know someone. She got the swine flu vaccine, developed guillain barre, and was dead two weeks later.

 

Wow she was really unlucky. I'm really sad for your loss.

 

 Says here that for every 500,000 people vaccinated against swine flu, 1 additional case of Guillain Barre will be diagnosed, and that only 1 in 20 people who develop the disease die from it (so 1 person for every 10 million vaccinated), with most making a full recovery (after 6-12 months - which sounds bad enough I agree!)

 

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/07July/Pages/Swine-flu-deadly-condition-claim.aspx

 

 In total 392 people died with a laboratory confirmed case of swine flu in the UK during April-July 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_in_the_United_Kingdom#Cases_by_region) - UK population is around 60 million so that's 1/153,000 people during that period. If the whole population had been vaccinated that would have been 120 extra cases of GB, 6 of whom statistically speaking would have died.

 

In the UK pregnant women were 4 times more likely to be admitted to hospital if they got swine flu and sadly 12 women died (with their babies) between April 2009 and Jan 2010 (http://www.rcog.org.uk/files/rcog-corp/CMACE%20swine%20flu%20and%20pregnancy%20report%202010_10_21_H1N1_final.pdf).

 

I for one am glad I decided to be vaccinated against this disease while pregnant with my son. We experienced no serious reaction (although I did have a sore arm for a couple of days). 

post #309 of 345
post #310 of 345
I got both my boys their vaccinations starting with the hep B shot in the hospital after they were born and then shots on the schedule my doctor told me they were supposed to get them. 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, 9 months 12 months and 15 months thats as far as ive got so far my boys are 15 months and 3 months. I plan on sticking to the schedule from their doctor and so far we've had no problems or anything from the vaccinations...(knock on wood)
post #311 of 345
I got both my boys their vaccinations starting with the hep B shot in the hospital after they were born and then shots on the schedule my doctor told me they were supposed to get them. 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, 9 months 12 months and 15 months thats as far as ive got so far my boys are 15 months and 3 months. I plan on sticking to the schedule the doctor gave me and so far we've had no problems or anything from the vaccinations...
post #312 of 345
Oh to answer the other question I never even considered not vaccinating my boys... Everybody I know vaccinates their kids so I never thought about not doing it... To be honest I didnt realize so many people dont do it... Theres nothing wrong with that, all parents are different and do things differently, I just didnt realize how strongly some people feel against vaccinations until I joined this site.
post #313 of 345

Welcome aboard, Lovemy2boys25!

 

I think the reason many people feel strongly about not vaccinating is that they either have a child who has had a severe reaction to a vaccine, or else know somebody else who did.  I'm glad your children have been safe, and hope they continue to be.

 

It's possible that you know more people than you think who don't vaccinate. Most of the people I work with, and most of my children's friends parents have no idea that we no longer vaccinate, because it's not something that ever comes up.  In the case of work, I make a point not to advertise the fact, because our workplace insurance offers a pretty big group policy discount for 100% flu shot compliance rates, and the pressure here to comply is pretty intense.  

 

2 years ago, I did talk with a couple of coworkers about that; I have a medical exemption myself, because of my own severe reaction in the past. But medical exemptions screw up the "100% compliance."  I couldn't believe how unsympathetic my coworkers are.  They wanted me vaccinated so that they could get their discount. Period. They couldn't have cared less if I had another reaction. One of them even said, "but if you have a reaction, your medical care would be covered, so what's the big deal?"

 

I'm really glad those coworkers left soon after that.  But their attitude seems pretty pervasive around here.

 

Schools, too, can be very difficult to work with, even when your child has a doctor-signed medical exemption.  And many pediatricians refuse to treat children who are not fully caught up on the recommended vaccine schedule--regardless of family history of vaccine reaction.

 

The pressure to comply with the vaccination schedule can be very intense and frightening.  Those of us who don't believe in such compliance certainly don't take our decision lightly!

 

And for those of us whose children had bad reactions to vaccines--we started out not even considering not vaccinating, too.  Because everyone we knew vaccinated. And the doctor told us it was perfectly safe.  And nobody warned us that our kids could have life-threatening reactions; we were told that such reactions were vanishingly rare, and only happened in third-world countries where children didn't have proper sanitation/nutrition.  And when our kids did have reactions, the medical personnel had no idea what to do, because they'd been taught that "vaccines don't do that."

post #314 of 345
I haven't ever hear anyone claim serious reactions only happen in third world countries. I don't have any idea what things like sanitation and nutrition would even have to do with it. I have often claimed that they are vanishingly rare because, well, all the evidence shows they are.
post #315 of 345

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

 I have often claimed that they are vanishingly rare because, well, all the evidence shows they are.

Except for the evidence posted here many times, that you've apparently chosen to ignore.  Like the fact that only a fraction of severe vaccine reactions are recognized as such, let alone reported.  Like the fact that, in spite of this, over 2500 cases of vaccine-induced serious injuries and death have been admitted and compensated by the US government (with taxpayer money)--and that's only through 2010.  http://vactruth.com/2011/02/25/national-vaccine-injury-compensation-program-and-vaccine-damage-awards/

 

Here is a partial list of cases compensated in 2012: http://drtenpenny.com/vaccine-court-judgements-for-flu-shot-injuries/

 

More recent studies have shown serious long-term autimmune problems caused by aluminum adjuvants, and both recent and not-so recent studies link vaccines with developmental regression, neurological disorders, bowel disorders, asthma, diabetes, food intolerances, etc.

post #316 of 345
I was never told about any risks or side effects that could be caused by vaccinations from my doctor or anybody really... Its scary to hear how vaccinations affect some children and adults too!!
Edited by Lovemy2boys25 - 1/8/13 at 11:08am
post #317 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovemy2boys25 View Post

I was never told about any risks or side effects that could be caused by vaccinations from my doctor or anybody really... Its scary to hear how vaccinations affect some children and adults too!!

Just curious, did you ask?
post #318 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

Except for the evidence posted here many times, that you've apparently chosen to ignore.  Like the fact that only a fraction of severe vaccine reactions are recognized as such, let alone reported.  Like the fact that, in spite of this, over 2500 cases of vaccine-induced serious injuries and death have been admitted and compensated by the US government (with taxpayer money)--and that's only through 2010.  http://vactruth.com/2011/02/25/national-vaccine-injury-compensation-program-and-vaccine-damage-awards/

Here is a partial list of cases compensated in 2012: http://drtenpenny.com/vaccine-court-judgements-for-flu-shot-injuries/

More recent studies have shown serious long-term autimmune problems caused by aluminum adjuvants, and both recent and not-so recent studies link vaccines with developmental regression, neurological disorders, bowel disorders, asthma, diabetes, food intolerances, etc.

I guess you mean the speculation, cause I haven't seen much evidence. I don't ignore it, but I don't find it compelling, either.
post #319 of 345

The vaccine court does not actually require proof that injuries were caused by vaccines.

post #320 of 345
Good point. If its on the list of recognized serious adverse events for a particular vaccine all you have to show is that it occurred in a reasonable timeframe after the vaccine. If its not on the list, you have to show that it's "50% plus a hair" likely it was caused, or just barely more likely than not, which is far short of a scientific standard.