is there anyway to get my 7 week old to fall asleep before midnight?

[babybirkel]

here's the deal: my 7 week old ds is a pretty good sleeper. he sleeps for about 4 hours, wakes up to nurse (we bed-share) and then goes back to sleep for 4 more hours. then my older ds is up for the day, and therefore, so are we. the problem is, my 7 week old doesn't fall asleep until midnight or later. with a 2 year old my day starts when he's awake for the day, so i'd like to get everyone to go to sleep before midnight, you know? even if i lie down with him in hopes of going to sleep he just nurses and nurses until midnight.

we have a bedtime routine...i try to nurse him at least every hour from around 3:30 on (trying to tank him up a little), and then after dinner both kids take a bath (around 7 or 7:30) (DH gives older DS a bath in bathtub while i give younger DS a bath in the sink). then i give younger DS a massage, put his diaper and jammies on, go into our room, turn the lights off, white noise machine on, and we nurse and i sing songs until he gets drowsy or falls asleep. then i put him in the co-sleeper and back out quietly. he will sleep in his co-sleeper for like 20 minutes, and then wake up and stay awake, nursing off and on constantly and/or fussing until midnight. then he will sleep a good 4 hour stretch like i mentioned.

if we keep doing the routine will he eventually stay asleep in his co-sleeper for a longer period of time? is it just a matter of being consistent and sticking with it? with my older DS when he was this age we were still just trying desperately to make breastfeeding work, so we didn't have any kind of routine or anything for a long time, not until he was 6-7 months old.

i'm really happy with bed-sharing once we go to bed but i would like to be able to start the evening with him in the co-sleeper, and at a somewhat predictable time earlier than midnight.

any tips for making this happen? just sticking with the routine? will it eventually get better? thanks mamas!

[beebalmmama]

What time is his last nap of the day? Maybe if you could push that forward or wake him up earlier......I hated to wake sleeping babies at that age but then you need some sleep too.

My other thought was whether something could be making him uncomfortable. Does he seem gassy at all.....reflux?

I never really tried for schedules or for that matter with routines for my babies....not until they were older. But I know with my younger son he was an early to bed guy (like 5:30 early) and would cry down no matter what. It was a tough time because we were trying to have dinner and a nighttime routine for older ds and so it was a bit of a mess. He gradually shifted to a more reasonable hour around 3-4 months.

I would probably keep with the routine you have going but consider his napping schedule. Otherwise do you think you could be missing some tired signs that start before the routine starts? You might be missing a window of opportunity before then and once he's past that window he stays up, just a thought.

[One_Girl]

I think that you are doing what you can with the dark and quiet, though having no noise at all may work as well.  I personally can't stand the white noise machines, or any machine, when I am trying to sleep so taking those out of the picture may help.  Have you considered pushing your mattress up against the wall so there is no gap and falling asleep while he is nursing?  It takes some work and there are a lot of stop and go periods at first but once you get it down it is wonderful.  I found that my dd and I developed very similar sleep patterns that way.  Finding a way to give him the sensation of you being right there may also work once he is all the way asleep. 

[Bird Girl]

He's only 7 weeks, you said, so I wouldn't count on an earlier bedtime until maybe 12, but more likely 16 weeks. If you nurse him quite a bit during the afternoon, could you turn him over to your DH after his bedtime routine? Maybe he could swing in the baby swing or walk around in a sling with your DH or have a pacifier if he gets fussy. That way, you could go to bed "early" and get in a couple of hours sleep before his midnight nursing. If your nursing routine is going well, I wouldn't worry about a little non-nutritive sucking, especially in the evening if he's a little fussy. Both of my babies would always spit out a paci if they were hungry, but would suck on it if they just wanted the soothing.

When my DD was that age, I used to feed her on one side in the morning, and pump with a hand pump on the other side. I'd get three or so ounces, and then my DH would give her that in a bottle around 11:00 pm that night. I could sleep five or six hours straight through, from about 9 in the evening until 2 or 3 in the morning, then I'd get up when she needed to nurse and handle all the wakeups and feedings until morning.

[babybirkel]

he kind of catnaps all day long...so it's hard to say when his last nap is. usually like 4:30 or 5 to 6 or so? then he's usually awake during dinner, then we try to do the bedtime routine stuff. mostly i just want to be able to have him start the night in his co-sleeper, and at a reasonable time, so i can spend a little bit of time with my husband, etc.

i guess i should explain some of the backstory...my older DS (26 months) would not sleep unless he was touching me for the first 13 months of his life. every nap, all night...touching me. so, that was really hard, and i guess i was hoping with this child i could maybe get him to sleep not touching me at least some of the time.

i'm happy with bed-sharing once i am ready for bed (makes night-nursing very easy) but i also need him to sleep not touching me sometimes. like from 7:30 in the evening until 10:30 or whenever i come to bed, and naps.

right now he naps in his swing mostly. but the swing is out in the living room and my 2 year old is constantly bugging him and waking him up, so it would be easier if i could get him to nap in his co-sleeper in our room...

maybe i'm jumping the gun a little. he is only 7 weeks, after all. but anyway, i am rambling...i just need him to sleep by himself sometimes.

[Bird Girl]

I completely understand where you are coming from. What about carrying the swing up to your bedroom so that he can start the evening in the swing, instead of the co-sleeper? I know it's a pain, but that might earn you a couple of hours of quiet time with your DH.

Does your 2 year old have a bedtime? I would think that he shouldn't be in bed too much later than 7:30 or so himself. Does he sleep by himself, or is he also in your room?

[babybirkel]

nak

my 2yo ds has a bedtime -- usually around 8 or so. he is in his own room. he knows the drill and usually isn't a problem to get to bed.

our bedroom isn't big enough for the swing unfortunately. i could maybe drag it to the baby's room and have him start the night there, and naps. part of me feels like this is potentially going to create more problems down the road if he's only used to sleeping in his swing independently....like what happens when he outgrows the swing? but i guess we can cross that bridge when we get there...

argh. mom guilt keeps screaming at me. other people manage to get their babies to sleep independently without CIO. why can't you?

and seriously, my older DS's first year nearly killed me with the sleep-deprivation and the always touching me. he was very high needs and while he's kind of grown out of it to a certain extent, he's still very intense. and so i am terrified of having a repeat of that experience. TERRIFIED. so if i can somehow teach him gently how to sleep without touching me that would be great.

[Greenlea]

I understand what you are saying about not wanting this baby to NEED to have your touch to go to bed.  I'm dealing with that with my LO (4mths) right now.  He won't nap or sleep at night w/out me.  He was okay for the first 3mths sleeping on his own, but this last month he has gotten so bad with needing me there.  I'm hoping its a phase, but I digress...

For one, I'm thinking at 7 weeks he just may be too young yet.  Especially if he knows that he will be sleeping next to you later.  I know you don't want him to need your touch to go to sleep, but have you tried nursing him to sleep, or to the almost asleep but still a little awak point?  He may go down easier.

[Bird Girl]

<i>other people manage to get their babies to sleep independently without CIO. why can't you?</i>

But your 2 year old does go to sleep at a good time without crying it out. So you're not a failure at it.

Have you read Marc Weisbluth's book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child? He is a sleep researcher, so most of the book is focused on when sleep patterns develop over the course of the first year, how they develop, and what is normal. He also includes information for children who have developed abnormal sleep patterns, and some of those children do cry before they go to sleep. But most of the book does not focus on that at all.

Weisbluth says that at about 6 weeks, babies begin to have their longest sleep period at nighttime, rather than randomly at any time day or night. Around 12 to 16 weeks, they begin to develop a regular morning nap, and can fall asleep earlier at nighttime. That was true for both my babies--and I had one who could not stand to be touched while she was sleeping, but slept through the night at 16 weeks, and one who fell asleep nursing, and woke up at night until he was 9 months old--different ends of the spectrum, so to speak. So I would guess that your little guy will be ready to go to sleep at 7/8 p.m. in just a few weeks, but that right now, he may not be quite that organized yet. Do whatever you can to get a little down time at night, whether that's letting him sleep in the swing, in a baby carrier, or just swaddled up in the co-sleeper. If you're consistent, he WILL develop that early bedtime, and you'll be on the right track to having a freer evening.