mostly formula fed...miserable (loaded question)

[bonjourmama]

I need some help. DD is just shy of 8 mths old.

Just for background's sake:

We have had problems nursing from the very beginning. She was tongue tied and I didn't realize it for a looong time. At one point my milk supply began to drop, her weight dropped, etc. Ever since my supply dropped initially, I cannot bring it back up. I have tried sns's, a ton of herbs and liquids, all of the recommended stuff, but it is not working. 

Then, as if to add insult to injury, she doesn't want me anymore. Everytime I bring her to my breast she screams and cries. (Even with the sns) The only time I can get her to successfully nurse is when she is exhausted, but she is just suckling, not eating. Ok, so now, in order to keep her well fed we have been supplementing for a few months, but now it is far less a supplement and more like her primary food. 

It seems that she is having really bad reflux. Night waking a ton (not for hunger), and most concerning seems miserable with a tummy upset about 20% of the day and night. She also has a rash that comes and goes in different spots that is red and splotchy with a tiny bump. Right now she eats Earth's Best Organic Milk Formula. Is it safe to switch to soy? I am afraid of the soy causing an estrogen overload in her tiny body.

What about milk sharing? Is this safe? I don't even feel that comfortable with it because she is older now and had 6 mths of mama milk only. I would hate to take milk from babies who need it. Also, she had these rashes when I was ebf, but now it is far worse. 

I love all of your inputs, but please don't give nursing ideas, because I promise I have tried a lot, and the feeling I have of failing my baby nutritionally and emotionally has left me battling depression and a lot of anxiety. 

Thanks mamas, and hugs to those who are reading and relating. It stinks. 

[Hannah32]

Have you considered talking to a therapist about your depression? It sounds like that may be helpful. You did a good job. Your baby got 6 months of breast milk. That's great! I say give the formula and let it go (with the help of a professional if needed). 

[Amanda_Reyasmom]

Milk sharing is totally safe.  Remember, Donors are sharing the exact same milk that they're feeding their own babies.  (says she who has 300 + oz in the freezer waiting to be picked up!) Check out Human Milk 4 Human Babies. 

[bonjourmama]

Talking to a therapist 

forgot to mention that. Thanks for your inputs!

[rachieface]

I just wanted to say that I think it's awesome that you nursed so long despite issues!  Way to go, momma.  I would look into milk sharing.  Although I have some friends who have loved Earth's Best Organic formula, it sounds like you should try a different one for a little while and see if some of her issues go away.  Good luck!

[poorlittlefish]

Personally, before soy, I would give Alimentum or some other such formula first just beause of the concerns with soy.

[bonjourmama]

Thanks Rach, so nice of you to say.

I will look into the Alimentum. I wish there was an organic one.

[janinemh]

You could check out "Eats on Feets" as well for milk share. 

[MsFortune]

Formula is food.  It's good, safe, nutritious food.  It may not be what you planned on feeding your baby, but she will thrive on it.  You can't look at kids and tell if they were breastfed.  Your baby will be fine.  

I'm worried about your guilt and self-loathing about this.  I'm glad you are seeing a therapist about this, but I think you also need to change your mind about you you view this.  

Formula is FINE.

I recommend fearlessformulafeeder.com

[MJB]

Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable taking breastmilk from a stranger. Do you have any friends or family who might be able to donate? 

Otherwise, I'd suggest experimenting with different formulas and asking your ped. about allergy testing. Alimentum is a hypoallergenic formula. Also, at her age, I wouldn't worry about the soy formula so much. I don't think it's a great idea to feed a baby soy formula for his whole infancy (receiving no animal milk), but she's already 8 months old. Soy is a healthful food for children and adults. You might want to try other milk-based formulas first, though. Similac makes an organic formula.

I was able to EBF my older two, but am having to supplement a little with my third. I'm working to increase my supply (starting domperidone soon) but the most important thing to me is that she's fed. It sounds like you tried everything and sometimes it doesn't work out. 

[Hannah32]

Deleted

[bonjourmama]

I just wanted to say thanks for your support mamas. It has been a challenge, especially since DD doesn't seem to tolerate formula well, but I appreciate the kind words. 

[marinak1977]

Nope, it looks like the last post is deleted. That's it.
Donated milk is a great option, but formula is fine too. Your little DD already got a great start on 6 months of mama's milk.

[mamadiamond]

if you have concerns about the safety of donated milk, why not use a service like Human Milk for Human Babies, where you can actually talk with the prospective milk donor. i donate milk, and before i started the woman i donate to asked about my history, health, and diet. and, if you're still concerned, you can always flash heat the milk to kill bacteria.

as far as not tolerating formula well and having a rash, have you had allergy testing done? cow milk allergy is fairly common in babies, and one of the main symptoms is reflux and rash. and could explain why the rash was there even before the formula, as the cow milk can come through the breast milk. just something to consider.

[Knitting Mama]

First of all, a big hug to you mama. Been dealing with low supply since birth over here. My daughter has been supplemented with an SNS since her fourth day of life on the outside, and will continue to be supplemented until she's done nursing. My supply went from okay in the earlier months, where I was able to make 50-75% of what she needed to abysmal now, at 11 months, where I make maybe 10%. I completely understand feeling like you've failed your baby, as I've lived with it every day as well.

The difference for us, though, is that she's been on donated milk since the start as well. As a previous poster said, the most telling part that convinced me of the safety of donated milk was seeing the same milk being given to the donors' babies. No sane mama who is willing to donate her milk is going to give her own child unsafe milk! But donor milk has truly helped my baby thrive. She is rarely ever sick at all, and grows beautifully. With the issues your girl is having, I would try really hard to get donated milk. Eats on Feets, HM4HB and www.milkshare.com are resources that are dedicated to milk sharing. As well, you may be able to find donors amongst the local threads on other forums you use, like here on MDC (I have also gotten milk from the local threads on diaperswappers).

[MJB]

The problem with the "no sane mama is going to give her child unsafe milk" argument is that we all have different standards. For instance, I feel comfortable drinking alcohol and breastfeeding but I might not feel comfortable with marijuana or antidepressants. Some other mom might feel the opposite way. And for a child with allergies, there's the donor's diet to worry about as well. 

I'm not saying don't use donor milk, I have donated milk before and my middle child was nursed by a friend on occasion, but it's not as cut and dry as "some stranger feeds it to her kid so it's safe for mine". HIV can be transmitted through breastmilk and are you 100% sure that someone on the internet's husband has not cheated on them? It's not a risk I'd be willing to take without HIV testing and a list of the drugs they take (OTC, RX and recreational) at the least. 

[laughingfox]

As another mama who had supply issues, SNS issues, pumping issues, and a baby who just gave up on nursing, I want to offer so many *hugs*. It's been over 9 months now since I had to abandon nursing, and it's still something I struggle with sometimes.

Have you tried other dairy formulas? I'd give that a try before Alimentum.
It took us a while to find a formula that my daughter could tolerate.. as much as I wanted her to be on an organic formula, it didn't work out that way for us. We tried organic soy, 2 kinds of organic dairy, "gentle" dairy, and none of those really worked, but she reacted differently to each, so I kept hoping something would work eventually. The gentle one was the only one of those 4 that didn't make her vomit, but she was constipated and miserable on it.
I never wanted to try the generic ones, but I did when nothing else seemed to work, and that's what works for her. We get the milk-based variety with probiotics. They sell the same stuff at Target, WalMart, Walgreens, Sams, etc. (Earth's Best is made by the same company that makes most store-brand generics, but the ingredients differ.)
I also have been tracking down donor milk, but not nearly enough to sustain my babe entirely. If it's something you're interested in, it's definitely worth looking into. Your baby might be older, but most people really don't mind donating to older babies at all. Sometimes there aren't even any moms with younger babes looking for milk in your area anyway.

[Cynthia Mosher]

Oh mama! Just wanted to reach out and give you a . You have done so very well giving her 6 months of breastmilk nutrition. Formula is certainly nutritious but breastmilk is - without question - superior nutrition, so you have given her such a good start on life and that is something to celebrate and be proud of! 

You have a lot of great advice here. Trust in your mama instinct and do what you feel is best. Your little girl will be fine. 

[bri276]

Then, as if to add insult to injury, she doesn't want me anymore. Everytime I bring her to my breast she screams and cries.

 

I just wanted to address this: she wants YOU- she just doesn't want to feed from breasts anymore.  There is a big difference.  She worships you, I'm sure, she just has it in her mind now that bottles are for milk and like lots of babies, enjoys the bottle and maybe even finds it easier and faster.  It's NOT personal.  I can assure you having both bottle fed and breast fed, the mother/child relationship and love is exactly the same, it's just a method of food taken out of the equation. 

 

As for the reflux I'd see if there was any medication that might help and try some other dairy formulas before I'd switch to soy, personally.  My DD1 gets a lot of rashes but they don't seem to bother her and might be related more to the cold, dry winter than any dietary issue.  Good luck...

[Knitting Mama]

Originally Posted by MJB 

The problem with the "no sane mama is going to give her child unsafe milk" argument is that we all have different standards. For instance, I feel comfortable drinking alcohol and breastfeeding but I might not feel comfortable with marijuana or antidepressants. Some other mom might feel the opposite way. And for a child with allergies, there's the donor's diet to worry about as well. 

I'm not saying don't use donor milk, I have donated milk before and my middle child was nursed by a friend on occasion, but it's not as cut and dry as "some stranger feeds it to her kid so it's safe for mine". HIV can be transmitted through breastmilk and are you 100% sure that someone on the internet's husband has not cheated on them? It's not a risk I'd be willing to take without HIV testing and a list of the drugs they take (OTC, RX and recreational) at the least. 

Well, the biggest answer to this is having open dialogues with your donors. All of my daughter's donors are my actual friends, and we have lots and lots of conversations about our lives, lifestyles, kids, and so on. I agree that different people have different standards, and I would never encourage anyone to get donated milk without having actual communication with the donors. It's not like you're getting a delivery of milk from some service where you never talk to the donor; milk sharing is a one-on-one thing.