What do you think/what would you do in this situation? (LONG, appreciate opinions)!

[blissful_maia]

Sorry I couldn't describe better in the thread title, so thanks for reading!

Okay, so here's my situation:

I really would like to have more children. At least one, possibly even two if it seems right at that point in our lives. Dh on the other hand, while not adamantly opposed to having more children, and certainly not wanting to do anything permanent, doesn't "want" more children. The way he describes it is that he just doesn't think about it. When I dream about the future and our plans, I like to think about future children and when they might arrive. He, on the other hand, doesn't figure that in. He would be happy with our three for the rest of his days, apparently!

So, here's where it gets tricky. I am starting to feel like welcoming another child into our family. I am not fertile at the moment, still nursing our 20-month-old ds a LOT, and my period usually waits quite a while pp. Whenever I bring it up, he says he feels uncomfortable in his stomach, and that he hasn't thought about it since we talked about it most recently. We only use withdrawal as birth control, especially while awaiting the return of my fertility. That being said, we are very fertile. Every time we've TTC, we conceived on the first try, even the one we m/c. Withdrawal seems to work pretty well for us, theoretically, but we do usually choose to TTC pretty soon after PPAF shows up.

Some other things to factor into the decision are that, in the past, dh has stayed home with our babies when they are little, while I was working my way through midwifery school. He also completed a university degree during this time, so of course, pretty high stress! Now, I have been working as a midwife for a while, and would have a paid maternity leave for a year, and would even be able to work part-time when I returned. He would be working during once any future children arrived and I would be the primary at-home parent. Also, we did always plan on having 4+ children, but ds is pretty high-needs/clingy (or at least was when he was a bit younger) and I think that threw dh for a loop after 2 mellow kids before him.

I have been pretty frank in the discussion, I think, and I have told dh that if he really, truly, does not want any more children ever, then I'd like to know so I can process and move on. But he says he doesn't feel strongly enough about it to make that statement. I have also told him that if he doesn't want to get pregnant, he should either wear condoms or, if he's really done, get a vasectomy. I am unwilling to take hormonal birth control, but I would consider a tubal ligation when I have surgery for my pelvic organ prolapse (which, again, I can't do til I KNOW we are done with childbearing). He won't do either.

A couple of times when he's been "sloppy" (TMI, sorry), I have jokingly said "what, are you trying to get me pregnant"? And he just laughs it off/scoffed. I find this very confusing! I think he has been spoiled by my super long periods of lactational amenorrhea and doesn't realize that our "method" of TTA isn't really reliable in the long term. 
 

Anyway, I'm torn on what to do. I would be happy to carry on as we are, knowing that we would likely eventually have an "oops" (which I would be happy about, not sure how dh would react at first). Do you guys think that is unethical? I mean, if dh really, really didn't want to have a child now, or in the future, he could do something about that, right? Do I owe it to him as my husband to take responsibility for the birth control for the children HE apparently doesn't want, when I would gladly welcome a new baby/child? Or is it his responsibility? Would you conceive a baby that your dh probably wouldn't be thrilled about at first, but would probably warm up to eventually? He is an awesome and involved papa, and I know he would love any children we made together. I think it's mroe the logistics, going through the "baby" stage again that freaks him out. Aaaah, help!

[justKate]

Originally Posted by blissful_maia 

Also, we did always plan on having 4+ children, but ds is pretty high-needs/clingy (or at least was when he was a bit younger) and I think that threw dh for a loop after 2 mellow kids before him.

I have been pretty frank in the discussion, I think, and I have told dh that if he really, truly, does not want any more children ever, then I'd like to know so I can process and move on. But he says he doesn't feel strongly enough about it to make that statement. I have also told him that if he doesn't want to get pregnant, he should either wear condoms or, if he's really done, get a vasectomy. I am unwilling to take hormonal birth control, but I would consider a tubal ligation when I have surgery for my pelvic organ prolapse (which, again, I can't do til I KNOW we are done with childbearing). He won't do either.

A couple of times when he's been "sloppy" (TMI, sorry), I have jokingly said "what, are you trying to get me pregnant"? And he just laughs it off/scoffed. I find this very confusing! I think he has been spoiled by my super long periods of lactational amenorrhea and doesn't realize that our "method" of TTA isn't really reliable in the long term. 
 

Anyway, I'm torn on what to do. I would be happy to carry on as we are, knowing that we would likely eventually have an "oops" (which I would be happy about, not sure how dh would react at first). Do you guys think that is unethical? I mean, if dh really, really didn't want to have a child now, or in the future, he could do something about that, right? Do I owe it to him as my husband to take responsibility for the birth control for the children HE apparently doesn't want, when I would gladly welcome a new baby/child? Or is it his responsibility? Would you conceive a baby that your dh probably wouldn't be thrilled about at first, but would probably warm up to eventually? He is an awesome and involved papa, and I know he would love any children we made together. I think it's mroe the logistics, going through the "baby" stage again that freaks him out. Aaaah, help!

Are we married to the same guy?!  We're in the exact same situation, except we only have a 2 year old DD.  Right now I'm charting, but I'm not great at it.  I really don't want to go back on hormonal BC--I've gotten so much new hair on my head since I quit, it's amazing!

But yeah, right down to the oops parts...I don't know what to do either.  I could say, "we're having another baby" and he would go along with it, but I don't want to do that.  I've told him to schedule a vasectomy if he's done, but he doesn't want to do that yet either, even though we've agreed that he will eventually.  I think his fear is money--but when do you ever have enough money, you know?  I'm interested to see what others think.  I'd never cause an oops, but I can't tell you how excited I would be about one.  I feel like I'll perpetually be in a 2WW if he doesn't make up his mind one way or the other, 'cause he's gotten so sloppy.  Ugh.  Hugs to you, mama!

[blissful_maia]

Originally Posted by justKate 

I'd never cause an oops, but I can't tell you how excited I would be about one.  I feel like I'll perpetually be in a 2WW if he doesn't make up his mind one way or the other, 'cause he's gotten so sloppy.  

This is EXACTLY how I feel! Well at least I know there's someone else in this crazy boat!

[justKate]

Thinking about it more, as I am 7 DPO (days past a fertile-time oops) and wondering whether this will all be irrelevant in a few days.

I do think men need to take more responsibility for BC, but when they haven't had to for years, it's hard to get that across.  I think they get it, logically, but can't internalize it well enough to take appropriate action when the time comes.  If/when we have an oops--it's inevitable--DH will probably not be happy.  He says he's not sure if he can handle another one (referring to DD).  She's very high-needs, and was a TERRIBLE baby.  While everyone else complains about terrible twos, I'm celebrating that she doesn't scream 6+ hours every day.  My mom says it would be impossible to have another child as difficult as her, and I sort of agree.  But I've always thought that I'd have more than one child...

Anyway I don't think it's wrong to continue as we are, even though it is nervewracking.  It's not like we're contemplating bringing babies into the world that will not be loved or cannot be cared for.  And if they were really serious, they would go get the V, right?  It's hard to think about.  I wonder what a guy would say?

[blissful_maia]

RIght, I agree with you about the responsibility for birth control thing. It's different if you're single, dating, etc. then it's individual responsibility. But in a marriage, I sort of think the person who doesn't want the babies should be the one keeping them from coming! Maybe that's me trying to justify baby lust when dh isn't really on board, not sure. 

Here's hoping you get a calm, sleepy, cuddly baby when your family is ready! There's no way you would get a baby that cranky twice, right!?! I'm lucky my third was the one who was high-needs, because otherwise we might only have the one, or maybe two! I think dh is afraid of another little ball of energy!

I wish more people would read and post! Maybe I should try in TTC or family planning?

[SubliminalDarkness]

Gosh. I think in theory the person who doesn't want the baby should prevent the baby. But I don't think that holds true to other aspects of an ideal marriage in mind, where only the person who wants something should put effort into it. Like, if my DH wants to eat healthier meals, I should do what I can do to help him achieve that. I don't know if that's a good analogy or not. But really, I don't like the idea of having an 'oops' baby, even if it's an oops baby I wanted and that my DH would come around to being ok with. I would want any child we have to be truly wanted from the get-go. If an oops happens, so be it, but I would make an effort to prevent it. 

[OkieMama77]

Throwing in my two cents here - I agree he should take responsibility for it.

Assuming that his previous reactions were positive, I can tell you that it's really painful when they're not. Being completely alone in your joy while being married is a terrible thing, and unfortunately I know this from first-hand experience.

My DH had a V and that made things pretty final; we weren't on great terms then and although I knew I wanted more children, I didn't want any more of HIS children because of the way he emotionally isolated me during pregnancy. He was overwhelmed and wanted nothing to do with me.

Mother Nature is a tricky one. Why I'd want to go through that again with the same man is silly, but I have my heart set on it "being different" - maybe because we're less stressed or in a better place financially.

I suppose there are a few ways you can test out whether you could live with his reaction; 1) consider him as if he's had a V and he can no longer get you pg despite your wishes, and see if that changes your feelings about it. If you can process and move on without hangups, it's a positive sign. If you've got hangups, well, join our club :) 2) give him a little test - tell him to flip a coin and before he sees the result, tell him if it's heads you're pg, and tails you're not. It's not whether the result is true or not, it's his reaction you're looking for. That test tells a lot!

I do have to say I still (unhealthily) resent DH for not being emotionally present during our pgs, and that's something that I don't know if I'll ever get over because those are times and experiences you never get back. It cuts deep; if you even get an inkling that he would have that type of reaction, I'd do everything to protect yourself against a pregnancy that could result in your emotional decimation, even if it means you have to do the work of prevention.

He doesn't sound like that kind of guy but then again, neither did mine.

[Mosaic]

I'll move this to Family Planning for you, after I put in my 2 cents, of course.

My husband was ready for our babies before I was, and I would have been livid if he had told me, "Well, if you don't want them, you do something about it!" Charting and abstinence are my only BC options due to health reasons, and they don't work if the other person isn't on board!

I firmly believe family planning should be a joint effort. Maybe your DH's actions are already giving you your answer: he may not be dying for a third, but he wouldn't be terribly opposed to the idea, either. He's a big boy and surely must understand that what he's doing can very well lead to a baby, and maybe he's comfortable with the perceived level of risk.

My vote is that you keep doing what you're doing, keep him apprised of the odds (especially as they change with ppaf, ewcm, etc.), and keep the lines of communication open.

[justKate]

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

Maybe your DH's actions are already giving you your answer: he may not be dying for a third, but he wouldn't be terribly opposed to the idea, either. He's a big boy and surely must understand that what he's doing can very well lead to a baby, and maybe he's comfortable with the perceived level of risk.

My vote is that you keep doing what you're doing, keep him apprised of the odds (especially as they change with ppaf, ewcm, etc.), and keep the lines of communication open.

OP, I think this is where I'm going with it.  I mentioned to DH last night that I was annoyed by being in a perpetual 2WW, and his response was basically, "oh, are you pregnant?"  Me: "no, not that I know of."  Him: "Oh, 'cause I was going to ask, do you think it's too late to take my truck back?"   In a completely conversational tone.  I don't think he even looked up from what he was doing.  So I think they get ambivalent at a point...not ready for the V, but not ready to say never.  I told him he needs to be more careful, because if I get pg from sloppy withdrawal he'll have no one to blame but himself.  He said he would blame my "hippie voodoo birth control" (a.k.a. FAM). 

I think Mosaic is right.  They're comfortable with the risk, and comfortable with the idea of another baby, although they don't want to commit to it right now.  

[Peony]

This was us until last fallish. We had 3, DH was saying he felt he was done, I was unsure, leaning towards another but he wasn't doing anything to prevent either. We've had HN children as well, and I felt DH was feeling just tired and afraid of what one more child would bring. So I settled into this pattern because I did have AF back of telling him when I was fertile and letting him decide what to do about it at that moment. Only my cycles were still off and even though I had gotten good at figuring out when I was Oing with wacky cycles since I had been doing that since my first was born, I totally missed a fertile period. And ended up pg.  

Dh had a much stronger reaction then I ever thought possible, to put it mildly, this baby is still only wanted by one of us and I'm halfway through the pg now. I had wrongly assumed that because he was not actively preventing all the time (sometimes when I was fertile, he would still ok DTD) then he obviously knew that a pg was possible, turns out that was not the case in whatever universe he lives in.  I can't say what I would of done differently, I never in a billion years thought this would be the response, and I didn't plan this pg, I never would of thought I was fertile at that time. I have to say that I was completely ok with an oops if one should happen but I felt like he had fair warning a pg was possible but I wasn't going to actually TTC.  I don't know, it was a hard grey area to be in and I felt like I was doing my best. Part of me thought, we'd just keep on the way we were going and eventually as more time passed, he would be ok with another child or I'd be fine not having another. I don't regret the way things happened, I was open as I could be, I didn't hide anything, and I'm not thinking that if this pg didn't happen, then it would of been better. Has this pg been really, really rough on our relationship, yes. While Dh has never been involved in my pgs, I tend to be a loner anyway, the isolation is difficult because he has NO interest in anything, and I feel like I can't even make a comment on how tired I am, etc... I think, or rather hope, that things will improve once baby is here. If not, then.... I'll cross that bridge later. 

[justKate]

Oh Peony I'm sorry.  But thank you for sharing your story.  It really is the other side of where I am now, and it would be hard. I hope things do get better once the baby arrives.  Sending you lots of hugs and strength....

[blissful_maia]

Originally Posted by OkieMama77 

I suppose there are a few ways you can test out whether you could live with his reaction; 1) consider him as if he's had a V and he can no longer get you pg despite your wishes, and see if that changes your feelings about it. If you can process and move on without hangups, it's a positive sign. If you've got hangups, well, join our club :) 2) give him a little test - tell him to flip a coin and before he sees the result, tell him if it's heads you're pg, and tails you're not. It's not whether the result is true or not, it's his reaction you're looking for. That test tells a lot!

This was an interesting thought... when I imagine dh having had a vasectomy, I do feel a bit sad but at peace at the same time. A lot of my concerns with this issue surround the uncertainty, the not-knowing from month to month, and the possibility of another one of our children out there. I feel that if I knew it wasn't a possibility I would be able to deal with it and focus on other things - travel, etc. As for the other half of your suggestion, that shed some light! I didn't actually as dh, but the sick feeling I got thinking about even telling him I was pregnant at this point in time probably means we're not quite there yet. Still, I don't think the BC should fall on me when I'm the one who wants another child.

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

I firmly believe family planning should be a joint effort. Maybe your DH's actions are already giving you your answer: he may not be dying for a third, but he wouldn't be terribly opposed to the idea, either. He's a big boy and surely must understand that what he's doing can very well lead to a baby, and maybe he's comfortable with the perceived level of risk.

My vote is that you keep doing what you're doing, keep him apprised of the odds (especially as they change with ppaf, ewcm, etc.), and keep the lines of communication open.

I agree it should be a joint effort, too. But I do think in a very fertile couple of prime child-bearing age, there needs to be more thought/planning than "I don't want a child right now, but I might one day, but then again I might not". I feel like we need to either do something tangible in the way of preventing babies or embrace the fact that one might come at any time. Dh doesn't seem to want to do either, or want to talk about it even. I think what you said about him being a big boy and understanding is probably true, but I'd like to hear it from him! And your vote/plan is definitely what I plan on continuing to do, it's just emotionally draining.

Originally Posted by Peony 

Dh had a much stronger reaction then I ever thought possible, to put it mildly, this baby is still only wanted by one of us and I'm halfway through the pg now. I had wrongly assumed that because he was not actively preventing all the time (sometimes when I was fertile, he would still ok DTD) then he obviously knew that a pg was possible, turns out that was not the case in whatever universe he lives in.  I can't say what I would of done differently, I never in a billion years thought this would be the response, and I didn't plan this pg, I never would of thought I was fertile at that time. I have to say that I was completely ok with an oops if one should happen but I felt like he had fair warning a pg was possible but I wasn't going to actually TTC.  I don't know, it was a hard grey area to be in and I felt like I was doing my best. Part of me thought, we'd just keep on the way we were going and eventually as more time passed, he would be ok with another child or I'd be fine not having another. I don't regret the way things happened, I was open as I could be, I didn't hide anything, and I'm not thinking that if this pg didn't happen, then it would of been better. Has this pg been really, really rough on our relationship, yes. While Dh has never been involved in my pgs, I tend to be a loner anyway, the isolation is difficult because he has NO interest in anything, and I feel like I can't even make a comment on how tired I am, etc... I think, or rather hope, that things will improve once baby is here. If not, then.... I'll cross that bridge later. 

Peony, thanks so much for sharing this honest story. I think we were in the same DDC(ish) with our 3rd children, and I remember you were having some issues with one of your older daughters as well? Sorry stuff is so overwhelming and exhausting right now.  The part about not being able to just chat about your pregnancy, how you're feeling, and somehow just feeling like it's "your" baby and pregnancy really hit home with me. That's not something I want, as much as I would like a fourth child in our future. 

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the input, I suppose I will just continue stewing about this as  I await the return of my PPAF!

[insidevoice]

I don't know how I feel about this.  I lean towards the camp of  'he really should know!' but at the same time, I don't want to have a child who may not be desired.  

In my relationship, while I danced around doing things that way, I am too guilt driven, so I kind of forced the conversation.  I needed to have a better understanding of what DH thought and why, and what he saw in our life together as we go forward.  If he'd tried to avoid that conversation, I would have abstained indefinitely until we worked things out. 

[Peony]

Originally Posted by blissful_maia 

This was an interesting thought... when I imagine dh having had a vasectomy, I do feel a bit sad but at peace at the same time. A lot of my concerns with this issue surround the uncertainty, the not-knowing from month to month, and the possibility of another one of our children out there. I feel that if I knew it wasn't a possibility I would be able to deal with it and focus on other things - travel, etc. As for the other half of your suggestion, that shed some light! I didn't actually as dh, but the sick feeling I got thinking about even telling him I was pregnant at this point in time probably means we're not quite there yet. Still, I don't think the BC should fall on me when I'm the one who wants another child.

I agree it should be a joint effort, too. But I do think in a very fertile couple of prime child-bearing age, there needs to be more thought/planning than "I don't want a child right now, but I might one day, but then again I might not". I feel like we need to either do something tangible in the way of preventing babies or embrace the fact that one might come at any time. Dh doesn't seem to want to do either, or want to talk about it even. I think what you said about him being a big boy and understanding is probably true, but I'd like to hear it from him! And your vote/plan is definitely what I plan on continuing to do, it's just emotionally draining.

Peony, thanks so much for sharing this honest story. I think we were in the same DDC(ish) with our 3rd children, and I remember you were having some issues with one of your older daughters as well? Sorry stuff is so overwhelming and exhausting right now.  The part about not being able to just chat about your pregnancy, how you're feeling, and somehow just feeling like it's "your" baby and pregnancy really hit home with me. That's not something I want, as much as I would like a fourth child in our future. 

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the input, I suppose I will just continue stewing about this as  I await the return of my PPAF!

Ah ha, I thought you were familiar! Yeah, that would of been my DD1, she is 8 now, still gets therapy 4-5 times a week, and will for a couple more years but is doing very well especially from where she was back then. And honestly, life has been much worse, not with DH like this, but obviously we've had our share of serious issues with children. I've just always had someone to be there even if I was making all the decisions, etc... this time it is my baby for now. I'm doing ok though. We did talk some yesterday for the first time in a while, still not much, but he did say it is growing on him. Which is good news. 

And hopefully other DPs would not have the same reaction mine did. I just did want to share my story because while he was iffy on another, I never guessed this. There is a part of me that probably heard what I wanted to hear because I did want another child. Not that I went ahead and got pg on purpose but the belief that another child would of been welcomed as much as I wanted it to be, by everyone if it should happen. I think I could of been more realistic for lack of a better term and really explored what Dh was saying or not saying at the time when he was being wishy washy about more children. Saying he felt done but then not acting like it when we were together. I was content at the time to just go with it, assumptions can be a dangerous thing sometimes. 

Good luck in whatever you decide.