Teaching kids about gay people...resources? Thoughts?

[Cascadian]

*Note: Not wanting to turn this thread into a debate - religious, or political - just looking for information.

So my DD, 7, returned from a playdate yesterday with a new BFF (older, more mature, more wordly). Talked about what she did, and at the end she says, giggling, "We were playing Barbies, but we were pretending they were GAY!" (more giggling).

Trying not to drive into a ditch, I asked her if she knew what 'gay' meant. "Yes, it's when two boys kiss each other!!!" (more giggling, said in slightly derisive way). Now, we've talked about this stuff in a general sense in the past, but it was obviously over her head at the time, and she's obviously 'learning' about concepts from her friends.

I only had 2 minutes to drive, so tried to cram as much info about how anyone can love anyone, how laughing at people is not nice, etc.

Then this morning, before school, I brought it up again. We'd talked about suicide the night before (was talking to DH about how the lead singer of a band committed suicide and she was there, and talked about people being sad), so I linked the issue of suicide to people laughing at someone who was gay. She seemed to get it, but again, we were rushed.

Any thoughts on how to teach compassion, tolerance and understanding to a child? Books, resources, youtube vids??

Thanks!!

[NellieKatz]

I would think that in addition to the usual teaching of being kind to others, maybe if the kids got to see you speaking up in situations where it would be very "un-cool" to do so. As an example, at a family gathering and someone says something derisive about gays (or blacks, or fat people...anything), if you were to speak up and say something like "that's unkind to say" or something empathetic like "hey, Uncle Joe, we don't know what it's like to walk in their shoes"....or something like that. The concept being that we very often are silent when those in our circle of friends or family say something bigoted, and by doing so we sort of help perpetuate it. It takes courage to speak up, but if our kids see us doing that, or even talking to the radio as I do sometimes when I hear of someone being really rotten to a minority person, then they might model that too.

My son and I always listen to NPR when driving around (it's all we listen to), and the news stories always seem to offer me great openings to talk about various issues. Sometimes he even asks about it. Like when a certain underwriting foundation exists to prevent child abuse, and my son hears it & says "Mama, what's child abuse?" (that was a tough one!) It offers a great opening to talk about issues. We're homeschoolers so I am guessing that he doesn't pick up as much stuff from peers, as his peer group is smaller.

If I had a daughter giggling about gays, or "boys kissing," I'd just talk directly to her. "So, honey, it sounds like you think that is funny. Is that because it's kind of different than what you usually see?" Something like that. And I might add "yes, you don't see it as often as you see boys kissing girls, because there are not as many gays as there are straight people. But how do you think the boys would feel if they heard you giggling?" or "Has anyone ever made fun of you, honey? How did it make you feel?" That sort of thing.

This exact scenario hasn't come up with us but I'm just imagining how I'd handle it.

[gypsymama2008]

Hmmm.   Well the way my parents explained it to me when I was about six or seven  was that sometimes women fall in love with men and sometimes women fall in love with women and sometimes men fall in love with men.  And I think I just took that for face value.   Also, do you have any gay friends or people she interacts with?  I think that can be the most powerful thing for kids seeing that gay people are real human beings makes them less strange and "other."  Our church has several gay couples in it so our DD has interactions with gay people every week.  She also has a friend who has two moms so I am crossing my fingers that she will just grow up to see it as normal. Also, I would watch some of the "It gets better" videos on youtube with her (although I would pre-screen them first to make sure the content is age appropriate), most of those are very powerful and directly address the issue of being bullied for one's sexual orientation.

Lastly, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  A lot of times kids at that age just giggle about making their dolls kiss no matter the gender of the dolls in question.  

[mamadebug]

I think the most important thing is to normalize all types of relationships for her.  For kids, kissing between homosexual or heterosexual people could be fodder for giggling.  So, without reading too deeply into it, just the kissing part, not so much the gay part, could be what she was giggling about.  But, I agree that it is important that all children learn the importance of not laughing at people who are different from them or from their experience.  I think that the most important way to do that is to model that behavior for them and to normalize whatever it is that she may find funny or awkward or whatever.  I think all people can turn to laughter when they aren't sure what to make of a situation or how to handle it.  There are books you can get to make this particular topic more familiar and comfortable for your daughter - like "Jennifer Has Two Daddies", etc.    I think you need to talk about it in a way that conveys you are comfortable with it.  Acknowledge the people in real life whom you know are gay.  And then talk in a relaxed, calm way when you have time to really spend communicating with her.  My son is 6 and we know gay people, he knows multiple kids who have gay parents and we live very close to the gay area of our town - because he has familiarity, there is nothing funny, yk?  

Oh, another book (more on the topic of respect and realizing how words an laughter can hurt people) we recently read over and over and I really like is Pinduli by Janell Cannon - it's about a hyena who gets made fun of and how she feels, and then she goes back and asks the other animals why they said mean things, and they all realize it was because someone had said something mean to them so they were angry and hurt and took that out on the next animal.....

[LynnS6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsymama2008 

Hmmm.   Well the way my parents explained it to me when I was about six or seven  was that sometimes women fall in love with men and sometimes women fall in love with women and sometimes men fall in love with men.  And I think I just took that for face value.   Also, do you have any gay friends or people she interacts with?  I think that can be the most powerful thing for kids seeing that gay people are real human beings makes them less strange and "other."  

Yes to that! Dd had a friend in preschool and kindergarten who was the daughter of a lesbian couple, and that made it much more tangible to her. She "got" that couples could be all sorts -- sometimes two women are attracted to each other, sometimes two men. Because she knows someone with a family like this, it's not odd to her. She was incensed when she found out that the Boy Scouts discriminate against gays (dh's advocating against having the Boy Scouts at our church because their position on gays is directly contrary to the teachings of our church, so it's come up in conversation). One of the pastors at our church is lesbian, and so again, this really helps my kids understand that people of all sexual orientations are part of our community.

"It's So Amazing" -- which talks mostly about reproduction, also has a brief section on homosexuality/heterosexuality, I believe. (I'd check, but it's currently in dd's bed, and I don't want to wake her up.  I think that It's Perfectly Normal has a longer section, but that's for older kids - 10+).

As for the giggling -- I wonder if it was as much about the kissing as anything. Dd, who's known the facts of life for 3 years, is suddenly saying things like "gross" when they talk about people kissing.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Cascadian 

Any thoughts on how to teach compassion, tolerance and understanding to a child? Books, resources, youtube vids??

Thanks!!

By not just focusing on the gay issue. by showing them just coz you are different doesnt mean you shun or make fun of them. show them how one culture does indeed look funny but that while its funny to us, it isnt to teh person who is being laughed at. 

i wouldnt talk too much about it. gay people should not be the focus. just that they exist. 

i am trying to think of some movies she could watch (i am so grateful to this medium - barney taught dd about single parenthood and bridge to terabithia about understanding bullies) where the movie is not about gay people (though of course it could be) but about some characters being gay. 

of course nothing, absolutely nothing compares to personal experience. when prop 8 failed dd cried - mama but what will happen to me if i want to marry a girl. our friends made her realise her life partner could be any one. 

though i wonder as pp posted if it really is about kissing primarily. 

[shanniesue2]

This issue is very tangible in my family.  My brother is gay and is married to a man (YAY that he went to grad school in Iowa and had Iowa residency!!).  I live in one of the most conservative states in the country, so it is very important to me that DS see and hear positive messages about gay people and we have been very intentional about that.  We talk openly about uncle Scott and uncle Alex, although in a normal way.  DS is only 3, so I haven't brought the sexuality aspect into it yet... but it's clear that "Uncle Scott and Uncle Alex" go together in the same way that "Aunt Meg and Uncle Curtis" do.  DH and I also go to very open and tolerant churches (we are an interfaith couple).  He goes to a small Episcopal Church where there are several lexbian couples and one transgendered person.  I go to a large UU church where one of the ministers is a lesbian, the other minister recently won a national award for his humanitarian work dealing with the laws against homosexuality in Uganda, there is a large an active LGTB+Allies group, and homosexuality is spoken openly about in a positive way.

I guess what I'm saying is that we have intentionally chosen to be members of communities where gay people are openly welcomed and integrated into the normal life of the community.  I'm hoping that all these early and ongoing positive messages will provide a good foundation of love and acceptance as DS grows up.

One other thing that I do, sometimes inwardly and sometimes openly, is to remind myself to be open to the possibilities for DS.  So when someone says something like "you're going to have to watch him around the girls" I will often add something the effect of "or the boys, either way is fine with me."  I don't always say this out loud (I do if DS is around) because quite frankly, it's frequently useless to get into an argument with people over homosexuality.  So if it's a situation where I think there could be that kind of useless confrontation that isn't really worth it, I will just add those words to myself.  Mostly just to keep myself open to allowing DS to be whoever he is going to be.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by meemee 
show them how one culture does indeed look funny

I don't think I'd go that route. One culture may look different from another, but it doesn't mean either of them look "funny". That sends a very mixed message, IMO.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by mtiger 

I don't think I'd go that route. One culture may look different from another, but it doesn't mean either of them look "funny". That sends a very mixed message, IMO.

you only took part of my whole sentence. what you said was what i wrote up there. you have to admit it looks funny. dd slipping and falling sometimes does look funny - it is funny (i can make fun of some things in my culture). it is more about recognising that it CAN be funny, but look from the other persons point of view. while it may look funny to you, would it be to them. dd slipping and falling and me bursting out laughing was a perfect example in my house. my laughter didnt come out of thought, it was reflex. after the tears dd understood that yes on charlie chaplin that same slip looks funny, but IRL it is more than just a slip. and thus that applies to other things in life.

perhaps my wording was not correct. perhaps instead of 'show' i should have used recognize, admit instead of shame to avoid the inordinate amount of guilt we have to carry. i mean arent we doing that with a movie like the gods must be crazy?!!

[limabean]

I've tried to just introduce the concept from the earliest age as being totally side-by-side with heterosexuality. So when we talk about kinds of families, we always talk about mom-and-dad-type families like ours as well as single-parent families, same-sex-parent families, multigenerational families, etc. 

I remember when Ellen DeGeneres got married, she showed wedding photos on her talk show, and it was a great opportunity to sit and watch with DS, saying, "They got married, so she's showing pictures of their special day. That's Ellen's wife, isn't her dress pretty? It kind of looks like Mommy's wedding dress in the picture on the wall, huh? Those are their rings, just like Mommy and Daddy's rings." He hasn't really had any questions about homosexuality so far, maybe because it's been so normalized in our house. I'm sure at some point he'll be introduced to the idea that it's "weird," but hopefully we've laid a strong enough foundation that we'll be able to meet that challenge when it happens, and we can maybe talk about how some people think the idea sounds strange when they first hear it, and some people's reaction to something new is to make fun of it, but that there's really nothing to make fun of. 

[hildare]

I'd recommend you take a look at the PFLAG site, they have lots of resources & ideas. http://community.pflag.org/Page.aspx?pid=194&srcid=-2 I also really like the San Francisco Public Library's list of Rainbow Celebration children's books: http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000154901

[rightkindofme]

Hm.  Are you still reading books to your daughter?  I have read a lot of books to my kids about different family members; Todd Parr is one author known for this kind of topic, but he's probably for younger kids.  But yeah, the giggling part is because kissing is taboo/titillating. :)  Mostly just go through life thinking that being gay is ok and your kid probably will too. :)  What is really going to be weird/hard is how to explain that I'm queer, but I happened to end up married to a guy.  (It was kind of an accident.  Long story.  Luckily it's going well.)  :)

[chaoticzenmom]

I also attend a UU church, so my friends have a few friends with two mommies.  It's been normalized for the kids in our church and there haven't been a lot of questions about it.  We had a lesbian minister for awhile who read "And Tango Makes Three" to the children in the congregation and had a discussion about it with them.  We bought the book.  It's not a a book that will lead to uncomfortable questions, but it can open up some discussion and help to normalize different types of families. 

A friend of mine watched her daughter playing with another girl and they were matching up Barbies to Kens.  Two barbies were leftover and her daughter said "That's ok, they can be a lesbian couple."  My friend said it was one of her proudest moments.:)

Lots of resources here

http://www.amazon.com/Tango-Makes-Three-Justin-Richardson/dp/0689878451/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300807990&sr=8-1

Edited by chaoticzenmom - 3/22/11 at 8:34am

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by meemee 

you only took part of my whole sentence. what you said was what i wrote up there. you have to admit it looks funny. dd slipping and falling sometimes does look funny - it is funny (i can make fun of some things in my culture). it is more about recognising that it CAN be funny, but look from the other persons point of view. while it may look funny to you, would it be to them. dd slipping and falling and me bursting out laughing was a perfect example in my house. my laughter didnt come out of thought, it was reflex. after the tears dd understood that yes on charlie chaplin that same slip looks funny, but IRL it is more than just a slip. and thus that applies to other things in life.

perhaps my wording was not correct. perhaps instead of 'show' i should have used recognize, admit instead of shame to avoid the inordinate amount of guilt we have to carry. i mean arent we doing that with a movie like the gods must be crazy?!!

There is really a HUGE difference between someone doing a slip & fall and how someone looks/acts/is.

Sure, I could see a giggle over a clumsy move, with explanations as drying tears that it wasn't meant to be funny, but it came off that way. Though I'd likely laugh AFTER making sure the kiddo was okay. But... saying a different culture is "funny"? I know people who say that, then make funny noises like "ching wing ling to" because they think Chinese is a "funny" language. Or who make jokes using various ethnic accents. Or do the whole floppy hand thing when talking about gays. IT'S NOT FUNNY! And you did post how "one culture does indeed look funny". Yes, you qualified that it's not funny to the person being laughed at, but really? It's not funny to a lot of people.

[mtiger]

My two are 17 & 19, and I don't recall ever specifically teaching them about gays. Their uncle was, and it was just never a big deal. I'll admit to having had some internal questions about my son, but I simply kept things to I loved both of them no matter what, no matter who they turned out to be, no matter who they decided to love. They are my kids, and I will always love them. They're both pretty open with me, so I have little doubt that they'd tell me. 

[meemee]

Originally Posted by mtiger 

But... saying a different culture is "funny"? I know people who say that, then make funny noises like "ching wing ling to" because they think Chinese is a "funny" language. Or who make jokes using various ethnic accents. Or do the whole floppy hand thing when talking about gays. IT'S NOT FUNNY! And you did post how "one culture does indeed look funny". Yes, you qualified that it's not funny to the person being laughed at, but really? It's not funny to a lot of people.

yes certain gestures in some cultures when you look at them through your eyes are funny. i am talking for a kid - not an adult. 

so yes for my dd at 3 a drag queen was funny. i mean a guy dressing up as a girl was funny to her. when that is out of the norm. so you recognise that yes it does look funny when you are used to seeing girls in pink tutus - not guys. you admit that for her it does seem funny. you gotta do that for her to understand rather than say it is not funny. you use that as a teaching point to show that yes you find it funny - because in your culture a man in pink tutu is funny. however how about that person when you laugh or make fun of him? that's when you point out how it can hurt. 

looking from the outside another culture does look funny or <put ur reaction here>. any. the point with kids is teaching making them see the difference btw outside and inside view. the concept that just coz its not the norm in ur culture it should be funny?!!!!

fortunately for us the drag queen happened to be dd's best friend (it was his bday) and while sharing his crown with dd - indirectly he showed her that he was still the same even in a dress. today she knows when she goes to school with 4 pigtails and/or leaves in her hat for decoration that some kids might laugh at her. from the other shoe she realises why it is NOT funny to laugh at other cultures. 

not sure if i am explaining myself clearly.