Any Christian Mystics out there? - Page 3

[bonjourmama]

funny Nicolelynn. I took this test once that was called "what denomination are you" (Ha, do you think I have been searching or what?) And it came back Orthodox. Since then I have been trying to find a liberal Orthodox community. We are going to try out the "Friends" church next weekend. Other wise known as Quaker. I have got to get some community. We live in an area of California that is literally ran by money. 

[Purple Sage]

Originally Posted by nicolelynn 

By the way, I am very drawn to Orthodoxy at this point, but don't feel like I could really identify as such. Theologically I feel much closer to Orthodoxy than Catholicism or evangelical protestantism, but I still can't 100% accept any systematic theology. The Orthodox church still does not allow women to be priests, teaches homosexuality is a sin, etc. Also, I could worship in the strict structure of the liturgy, but I also have experienced the freedom of the Holy Spirit and can't merely confine Him/Her/It to that. I wouldn't be free to share something the Holy Spirit is speaking to me in the gathering, etc.

But I still am growing a great deal in my faith by searching out Orthodoxy.

I understand.  I had to change quite a bit to get to this point...the Orthodox Church would not have conformed to my previous position on many issues, so I can definitely relate to that.

[Koalamom]

Can someone tell me what orthodox is all about as I am embarrassed to say I have only heard the word and have no idea what it really it. I too am desperate for community/friendship. All the people I knew were from my former religion and they don't care to talk to me since I am not "one of them" anymore. This thread really came at a perfect time!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by nicolelynn 

Welcome, Panserbjorne..and I forgot to officially welcome Rebecca2009!

Yes, thank you for that insight about the Theotokos, Purple Sage....it is beautiful and powerful. Coming from a protestant view, it is taking me a lot to get over my fear of Mary worship.

thanks for the welcome!  And I haven't read the thread yet, but just saw this.  As a protestant I will tell you that one of the things that totally won be over was a novel by Kathleen McGowan.  It's totally Mary centered, based on lost gospels that she wrote and her take on Mary' Magdalene's relationship with Jesus.  Of course, it has a lot of the great Mary in it too!  But the point is if you are into Christian mysticism, for me her trilogy is a must read.  The first book is The Expected One.  Absolutely beautiful, and very well done.  All three are.  The sequels are The Book of Love and The Poet Prince.

Reading them has totally altered my personal view, so I thought I'd throw it out there!  I'm not saying they're factual, they're just beautiful.  I think of them as a very feminine version of the DaVinci Code.  That sought to say the feminine was important, but to me was a very masculine spin.  McGowan's books are quite different.

[sapientia]

Haven't read these, thanks for the mention...

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

thanks for the welcome!  And I haven't read the thread yet, but just saw this.  As a protestant I will tell you that one of the things that totally won be over was a novel by Kathleen McGowan.  It's totally Mary centered, based on lost gospels that she wrote and her take on Mary' Magdalene's relationship with Jesus.  Of course, it has a lot of the great Mary in it too!  But the point is if you are into Christian mysticism, for me her trilogy is a must read.  The first book is The Expected One.  Absolutely beautiful, and very well done.  All three are.  The sequels are The Book of Love and The Poet Prince.

Reading them has totally altered my personal view, so I thought I'd throw it out there!  I'm not saying they're factual, they're just beautiful.  I think of them as a very feminine version of the DaVinci Code.  That sought to say the feminine was important, but to me was a very masculine spin.  McGowan's books are quite different.

[nicolelynn]

Bluebirdmama1, I am sure Purple Sage will know much more than I do, but I found this website helpful: http://www.goarch.org/. The bit on theology took a long time to read but blew my socks off having been protestant. Also, if you didn't get a chance to view it this video of a priest illustrating the Orthodox vs Protestant views of salvation was amazing and simple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WosgwLekgn8.

What I didn't realize as a Protestant was the Orthodox church IS the oldest church, the Catholic church broke off from it and the Protestant church from that. Their leadership has been directly passed down each generation from the apostles. Their theology has changed little, and is not as dogmatic and systematic as Catholic and Protestant theology. The Orthodox church is essentially much more mystical than the Catholic and most Protestant churches. That is just a little intro.

[holyhelianthus]

YES YES YES! Well, I am a Mormon mystic but hopefully it's still okay I post. I'll sit back and see what everyone has to say first.

But I just wanted to raise my hand and also say NICOLELYNN!!! How the heck are you?! Still in my neck of the woods, I see. :)

[holyhelianthus]

Okay okay I can't stay away!

A few questions:

Is anyone else interested in the Christian symbolism in the Tarot? Or just the Tarot in general?

Has anyone else read anything by Cynthia Bourgeault?

I'm really loving this conversation about Orthodoxy. Recently I have started taking a pretty... conservative(?) personal and spiritual view of my body. I have begun head covering and wearing skirts or dresses. I have felt drawn to this for some time but recently I felt a big push. Now I don't think that one must do this in order to be worthy or what have you but I do see it stirring up a change in me. I think it has brought a level of humility and sacrifice that I was so lacking and in that has allowed me to be open and bare to the Divine. Anywho point being I am finding it so interesting how the more "mystic" you get the more you seem to want to move back into the past/more traditional beliefs and way of living. Of ocurse I could be reading waaay too much into this...

[sapientia]

Yes! I have been doing tarot for 27 years and I have never found any issue with faith...I don't know why, other than I see it just as symbolism
, and it seems to be accurate for me. I've never put tarot or the symbolism away.

Originally Posted by magstphil 

Okay okay I can't stay away!

A few questions:

Is anyone else interested in the Christian symbolism in the Tarot? Or just the Tarot in general?

Has anyone else read anything by Cynthia Bourgeault?

I'm really loving this conversation about Orthodoxy. Recently I have started taking a pretty... conservative(?) personal and spiritual view of my body. I have begun head covering and wearing skirts or dresses. I have felt drawn to this for some time but recently I felt a big push. Now I don't think that one must do this in order to be worthy or what have you but I do see it stirring up a change in me. I think it has brought a level of humility and sacrifice that I was so lacking and in that has allowed me to be open and bare to the Divine. Anywho point being I am finding it so interesting how the more "mystic" you get the more you seem to want to move back into the past/more traditional beliefs and way of living. Of ocurse I could be reading waaay too much into this...

[nicolelynn]

Hey Maggie, welcome! Long time no "see"! I am doing well, we are back in Palm Desert, and getting ready to foster-adopt 2 children through the county...so excited! We really do need to meet one day, since we live about 20 mins apart and especially since now we have discovered we are fellow mystics =). And you most certainly are welcome here as a Mormon mystic. As you might have seen earlier in the thread I must sadly confess until recently I was one of those evangelicals who viewed Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses as "cults". Now that I have humbled myself and realize I don't have theology figured out and probably never will, and have seen Jesus in many Mormons and JW I have known, I can now fellowship with sisters and brothers in many Christian traditions.

I haven't looked into tarot myself, but I am curious now. And that is interesting about your experience with modest dressing/head covering. I went through a time as a teenager when I desired that, but for the wrong reasons. For me personally I was trying to earn God's approval and felt I was more holy than others. I actually had the experience of getting freed from my personal legalism and jumped right into being a punk rocker haha. But your reasons are beautiful. I kind of relate as well with the getting more conservative in ways as I get more mystical. In thought I am getting more and more liberal, feminist, egalitarian, worshipping the feminine side of God, etc. DH has never been a macho man or tried to lord anything over me so we have always related equally. However, I left my job to be a SAHM when we have foster children, so in practice we look pretty conservative haha. But really, the experience is about a simple, zen life of having a stay at home parent DH and I have chosen...rather than me thinking my religion says women need to stay at home and submit to their husbands.

Anywho, welcome.

I decided to start reading some Apocryphal texts as I had never done so, and my understanding of the "Word of God" is growing. I just started today on the Shepherd of Hermas, widely accepted by the early church, yet most protestants have never heard of it. Interesting that it is written by a slave, and the person speaking to him in visions is a woman. I love how this carries on the theme of Christ challenging all social structures of the day, and a slave and a woman teaching humankind through these visions and this book. I haven't finished it but that was my first impression.

[Purple Sage]

Originally Posted by nicolelynn 

Bluebirdmama1, I am sure Purple Sage will know much more than I do, but I found this website helpful: http://www.goarch.org/. The bit on theology took a long time to read but blew my socks off having been protestant. Also, if you didn't get a chance to view it this video of a priest illustrating the Orthodox vs Protestant views of salvation was amazing and simple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WosgwLekgn8.

What I didn't realize as a Protestant was the Orthodox church IS the oldest church, the Catholic church broke off from it and the Protestant church from that. Their leadership has been directly passed down each generation from the apostles. Their theology has changed little, and is not as dogmatic and systematic as Catholic and Protestant theology. The Orthodox church is essentially much more mystical than the Catholic and most Protestant churches. That is just a little intro.

There are some Orthodox women on this site who know much much more than I do, though.  If you search the word Orthodox here, you'll see what I mean.  Here is another great resource.

[Panserbjorne]

I thank you for the links on orthodoxy.  It's really been drawing me over the last two years.  Always good to feel nudged!

Love this thread-it's really what I've been waiting for so thank you for starting it, and everyone else for keeping it moving so fast!

I don't use tarot, but I do use cards at times for myself personally, if I'm struggling.  Mainly I use angels and Mary Magdalene cards.  This is about gaining clarity for me and feels very worshipful.  I do pray a lot.  I run a healing ministry and use fairly esoteric systems that I do believe are tools given by God.  I say blessings before and after each appointment, and ask for direction.  I do feel that I practice and am drawn to what I would call Christian Mysticism, but have never identified myself as a mystic.  Funny, how semantics can turn things around for you!

I attend a Lutheran church out of duty.  I love the services, but I'm not at home there.  I am there, however, for support and I'm not sure I see that changing anytime soon.  It's unfortunate, because the pastor is outstanding and not only talks the talk of Jesus' message of love....he really walks the walk.  He volunteers in the community, does homebound and hospice visits daily (5 days a week.)  Runs a chaplaincy for the police department, visits prisons and ministers to those who want it, talks and provides fellowship for those that don't.  He's amazing and truly is a loving person.  I'm there for him.  Unfortunately the congregation is miserable.  He's looking to affect a change and I do have a sense of duty to stick around and be part of it....but it's hard.  I want to feel a kinship with those in my church and even after a few years, I don't. 

The think I love about Christian Mysticism is that it's not a total departure from what I grew up with.  I was lucky that there was no fire and brimstone and it truly was about love.  About helping others and being the best person you could be.  I realized as a young adult that was sort of an anomalous view and I was lucky to have the pastor I did.  There was no guilt, no fear, no "us against the world."  He preached love and acceptance and that's what I'm after.

I'm also a modest dresser and head coverer at church.  I sometimes feel drawn to cover at other times, but at this point it's not a normal part of my day.  I do agree with whomever stated that the more to the mystical side I go, the more traditional I get!

[Koalamom]

Thanks PB for the book rec (and welcome!). I will check them out after I read the daughters book rec on page one.


Thanks nicole and sage for the info on orthodox. Still not ready for organized religion but desperately needing community.


Welcome Maggie! You can for sure be a mormon mystic. I just left mormonism a few months ago after being in it for 25 years. It is nice you feel you can practice both. I couldn't, I had too much guilt and devotion to the leadership. Interesting how you are wanting to cover up as my leaving the church, I just want to rip my clothes off and become a sexy goddess and soak into the earth. Not as traditional as primal.

My dh and I have been doing some healing energy meditation work lately together. He has been teaching me things he learned years ago and felt he couldn't teach me then but can now. The things we see and can do are amazing. Any do this kind of work? It is kind of like reike in the spirit but without limits.

[Koalamom]

PB, would you share a little about these cards and how they are different than tarot? Did you make them up yourself?

[Panserbjorne]

Sure-though I'm no expert and someone else may come along and tell me I AM doing tarot, for all I know!

The cards I use don't have the standard cards you find in tarot-at least not to my knowledge.  There's no "ace of cups, queen of pentacles, the fool," etc.  They are oracles (which may not differentiate really?  I don't know.)   The names are different, but I'm certain there's crossover.  I just don't know anything about tarot and when I hear friends talking about it I have no frame of reference for what they're saying!

Instead of doing a  traditional "spread" I'll say a prayer and pull three cards to help me understand what I need to know.  These are of course, widely subjective, but given the question I've put forth I can derive meaning and direction from them.  I find them to be very helpful.  As I said I pray a lot, but I've never had the experience of God, Mary, Jesus etc. talking to me this feels like kind of a conversation.  They guide me, they put people in my path when I need them, I do fel their presence, don't get me wrong...it's just that when I use the cards it feels like they're actually communicating more directly.

That doesn't mean you can't use them as tarot cards-its just that I don't.  At least I don't think I do!  Here's the Mary deck I use that I love:

http://www.amazon.com/Magdalene-Oracle-Toni-Carmine-Salerno/dp/0975216651#reader_0975216651

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1 

Thanks PB for the book rec (and welcome!). I will check them out after I read the daughters book rec on page one.

 

I'm going to have to check that out too.  I have been hesitant to pick anything else up after the ones I mentioned.  When a book(s) change the course of my life and alters the way I see things so completely it's really hard to follow!  I've read all three multiple times now and think I'm ready to move on.  The recommendations here are wonderful. 

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

Sure-though I'm no expert and someone else may come along and tell me I AM doing tarot, for all I know!

The cards I use don't have the standard cards you find in tarot-at least not to my knowledge.  There's no "ace of cups, queen of pentacles, the fool," etc.  They are oracles (which may not differentiate really?  I don't know.)   The names are different, but I'm certain there's crossover.  I just don't know anything about tarot and when I hear friends talking about it I have no frame of reference for what they're saying!

Instead of doing a  traditional "spread" I'll say a prayer and pull three cards to help me understand what I need to know.  These are of course, widely subjective, but given the question I've put forth I can derive meaning and direction from them.  I find them to be very helpful.  As I said I pray a lot, but I've never had the experience of God, Mary, Jesus etc. talking to me this feels like kind of a conversation.  They guide me, they put people in my path when I need them, I do fel their presence, don't get me wrong...it's just that when I use the cards it feels like they're actually communicating more directly.

That doesn't mean you can't use them as tarot cards-its just that I don't.  At least I don't think I do!  Here's the Mary deck I use that I love:

http://www.amazon.com/Magdalene-Oracle-Toni-Carmine-Salerno/dp/0975216651#reader_0975216651

This is interesting to me. I have always been interested in tarot but due to my upbringing, etc never could bring myself to actually deal with them in anyway. Even now I am still on the fence despite knowing a bit more but the cards you mentioned are definitely something I want to look into.

[Koalamom]

I was always afraid of tarot because of my upbringing and still feel hesitant about them but if I did try them out it would be with something more like the ones you shared PB. Thanks!


Oh Nicole, that link about orthodox salvation has rocked my world. I just couldn't get enough of it and will save the link to show DH. It shows how much love God has for us. So amazing!

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1 

Welcome Maggie! You can for sure be a mormon mystic. I just left mormonism a few months ago after being in it for 25 years. It is nice you feel you can practice both. I couldn't, I had too much guilt and devotion to the leadership. Interesting how you are wanting to cover up as my leaving the church, I just want to rip my clothes off and become a sexy goddess and soak into the earth. Not as traditional as primal.

I really really hate how the church has robbed Mormonism of it's mystic roots and even it's sexy. I definitely have become more primal about my body and sexuality (ok ok so I was pretty primal to begin with to tell you the truth) but at the same time feel that "covering up" is more of a... I dunno... lesson is sacrifice and humility? A personal show of reverence and devotion to the Divine? Honestly I haven't quite figured it all out yet. I am going by my gut which I don't do often so I am trying really hard to just "go with it" and think on it as a second response. But traditional and primal so go hand in hand with me. I know it seems so contradictory but that seems to be my MO. *sigh* I cover up most of the day but I also love to throw on my spaghetti strap and shorts and garden with the sun beating down on me. I don't feel the need to hide from God or the rest of the world I just feel... sheesh! I have no idea how to put it into words! 

By all means rip those clothes off! Ever heard of going skyclad? One of my favorite ways to do ritual.

This is a blog written by a few Mormon women I know who are embarking on a more mystic/neo-Pagan journey. Some are members here. I wonder if they are reading this... I'm not trying to get you to "return to the fold" believe me but I know it's nice to see others aren't products of the cookie cutter and that you aren't crazy or evil like so many in the church would have you believe. 
 

Originally Posted by nicolelynn 

Hey Maggie, welcome! Long time no "see"! I am doing well, we are back in Palm Desert, and getting ready to foster-adopt 2 children through the county...so excited! We really do need to meet one day, since we live about 20 mins apart and especially since now we have discovered we are fellow mystics =). And you most certainly are welcome here as a Mormon mystic. As you might have seen earlier in the thread I must sadly confess until recently I was one of those evangelicals who viewed Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses as "cults". Now that I have humbled myself and realize I don't have theology figured out and probably never will, and have seen Jesus in many Mormons and JW I have known, I can now fellowship with sisters and brothers in many Christian traditions.

We really do need to get together, NicoleLynn. I keep wondering how many Christian mystics there are around here. 

We all have had to swallow a nice big helping of humility at some point. Oh my gosh I can't even start to list all of the things I have had to face. Eeek! But it's so good for us. 

 

I kind of relate as well with the getting more conservative in ways as I get more mystical. In thought I am getting more and more liberal, feminist, egalitarian, worshipping the feminine side of God, etc. DH has never been a macho man or tried to lord anything over me so we have always related equally. However, I left my job to be a SAHM when we have foster children, so in practice we look pretty conservative haha. But really, the experience is about a simple, zen life of having a stay at home parent DH and I have chosen...rather than me thinking my religion says women need to stay at home and submit to their husbands.

Yes! This is so us as well. You hit the nail on the head with "simple zen life". We are striving for a contemplative life of service. It looks so antiquated, anti-feminist, and all around crazy but it's so much more complicated than that.

 

I decided to start reading some Apocryphal texts as I had never done so, and my understanding of the "Word of God" is growing. I just started today on the Shepherd of Hermas, widely accepted by the early church, yet most protestants have never heard of it. Interesting that it is written by a slave, and the person speaking to him in visions is a woman. I love how this carries on the theme of Christ challenging all social structures of the day, and a slave and a woman teaching humankind through these visions and this book. I haven't finished it but that was my first impression.

That sounds really interesting. Do you have a link to the book? I have been making my way through The Gnostic Gospels which is a very short book but one that is very heavy. I read a bit and then chew on it for a few days. Such fascinating stuff that Christians once believed and have now lost. Anyone else have a suspicion that that's because "they" wanted more control so they took our personal power? What can I say, I'm the paranoid anarchist type. :P

The Tarot. I have been in love with it since I was 15 and picked up my first deck. I stopped reading when I returned to the LDS church and missed it soooo much everyday. Now that I am back with it things have been so much better. But I don't understand why so many preach they are "evil" or wrong. They are cards! A tool! A hammer can be used to beat someone's head in but it can also be used to hammer a nail into the wall in order to hang a picture of Christ. Is the hammer evil, bad, wrong to use for anything because it could be a weapon? 

I have been blogging about my family and my beliefs and practices but I have made my blog private. If anyone would like an invite just PM me your email address. I would love to share more about this and read more about it from others as well. 

[nicolelynn]

Maggie: The Shepherd of Hermas: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html

PMing you for an invite to your blog =)