Baby Joseph

[newmum35]

anyone else seen this and wondered if it might have been a vaccine reaction? (began with seizure activity at 6 months) ... couldn't help but wonder.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/Ethics/25332

[BeckyBird]

I don't know....it says his sister died of a similar condition years before. Could be anything.  I skimmed the article, and could not find any info on his vax status. Kind of like they don't even want to entertain the idea that a vaccine might have contributed to his condition, so they don't even mention vaccines at all.

If he were not vaccinated, I bet they would be playing it up. Maybe in a way like "See, a vaccine did not cause his neurological condition, because he was not vaccinated!" You know, vaccines are holy medicine, and doctors do not want to entertain the idea that they might possibly cause harm.

[heathergirl67]

This story is so incredibly heart-breaking for everyone involved. But I don't see how it has anything to do with vaccines. At all. I can't even begin to imagine what moved you to bring it to this forum.

[JBaxter]

He has a genetic condition his sister died of the same condition.   Im sure they will move this from the vaccine forum.

[Marnica]

While there is no indication that this is vaccine related, I do see how OP came to wonder if they were involved.

There are cases that have just been compensated in vaccine court of babies who were normal at birth but started having seizures and severe neurological problems after a vaccine. I don't think it is too far of a stretch to wonder.

Given that we have no access to the actual events surrounding this babies detereoration or that if his sister's or any information about vaccines given, it would be impossible to speculate, but I get why the OP wonders.

[newmum35]

The mention of "seizure activity" is what made me wonder whether there could be a connection.  Since we don't know vax status (yes/no/or when) we can only speculate. Vaccines are known to cause seizures in some individuals so I wondered whether there could have been a connection since the baby was 6 months old, a common time of vaccination and reactions.

[no5no5]

Elsewhere, I've read that he had symptoms at 3 months, but wasn't diagnosed until 6 months.  I can't imagine how it could be blamed on vaccinations in any case.  It is clearly genetic, IMO. 

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by no5no5 

Elsewhere, I've read that he had symptoms at 3 months, but wasn't diagnosed until 6 months.  I can't imagine how it could be blamed on vaccinations in any case.  It is clearly genetic, IMO. 

 If this infant was vaccinated on the Canadian schedule, he probably received 5 vaccines at his 2 month visit, so showing seizure activity within a few weeks after vaccination wouldn't be unheard of. Then he would have gotten another 5 at his 4 month visit. Im not saying I think this is vaccine related, however since we have literally NO information about the details of this infant's medical history other than when he started having seizures, I don't see how it can be clearly genetic. In terms of his sister dying of a similar condition, to me that makes sense. Siblings share DNA, perhaps they both had some sort of condition where they were particularly susceptible to seizures that were triggered by some sort of environmental onslaught....so in that sense it very well could be genetic in terms of an underlying cause. (kind of like Hannah Pauling) Again, I'm not saying this poor babay died because of an adverse reaction, but there are just too many unknowns to rule anything out IMO.

[Laur318]

Too many unknowns to rule it out, is exactly what I'm thinking too. How old was his sister? Besides her any family history of seizures? So, so sad.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

 If this infant was vaccinated on the Canadian schedule, he probably received 5 vaccines at his 2 month visit, so showing seizure activity within a few weeks after vaccination wouldn't be unheard of. Then he would have gotten another 5 at his 4 month visit. Im not saying I think this is vaccine related, however since we have literally NO information about the details of this infant's medical history other than when he started having seizures, I don't see how it can be clearly genetic. In terms of his sister dying of a similar condition, to me that makes sense. Siblings share DNA, perhaps they both had some sort of condition where they were particularly susceptible to seizures that were triggered by some sort of environmental onslaught....so in that sense it very well could be genetic in terms of an underlying cause. (kind of like Hannah Pauling) Again, I'm not saying this poor babay died because of an adverse reaction, but there are just too many unknowns to rule anything out IMO.

His first symptoms were not seizures, IIRC.  I believe his problems began with other neurological symptoms, like difficulty eating and lack of responsiveness.

I guess I think there is a huge double standard on this board wrt vaccines.  If a child has a peanut allergy and dies of it, nobody says, "Peanuts killed this child!  Nobody should eat peanuts!"  Because it wasn't peanuts, but the peanut allergy, that caused the problem.  And a person can literally have an allergy to anything. 

So to me, these children died of a rare genetic condition.  Whether the timing of their first symptoms or the progression of their diseases was influenced by environmental factors doesn't change that.  To assume that these children might not have had this condition had they not been vaccinated seems completely absurd to me.  It's like me saying, well, if there had been no peanuts in their home they might still be alive today.  Of course anything is possible.  But why would anyone assume a cause, or even suspect a cause, with absolutely no reason?

[BeckyBird]

Originally Posted by no5no5 

 And a person can literally have an allergy to anything. 

Including vaccine ingredients.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by no5no5 

His first symptoms were not seizures, IIRC.  I believe his problems began with other neurological symptoms, like difficulty eating and lack of responsiveness.

I guess I think there is a huge double standard on this board wrt vaccines.  If a child has a peanut allergy and dies of it, nobody says, "Peanuts killed this child!  Nobody should eat peanuts!"  Because it wasn't peanuts, but the peanut allergy, that caused the problem.  And a person can literally have an allergy to anything. 

So to me, these children died of a rare genetic condition.  Whether the timing of their first symptoms or the progression of their diseases was influenced by environmental factors doesn't change that.  To assume that these children might not have had this condition had they not been vaccinated seems completely absurd to me.  It's like me saying, well, if there had been no peanuts in their home they might still be alive today.  Of course anything is possible.  But why would anyone assume a cause, or even suspect a cause, with absolutely no reason?

Well, having just had a friend of mine's 13 year old niece pass away on 12/18 because she ingested peanut oil in her chinese food, I don't entirely disagree with you.  I see your point, however if she had NOT eaten something laced with peanut oil she would be alive right now. - so the peanuts certainly played a huge role in her death

In this case If this child had an underlying problem (allergy or genetic condition) then that should be the cause of death, not necessarily what triggered the reaction. I guess I don't think it would be that absurd to entertain the notion that a trigger can be a cause of death rather than the underlying condition or genetic predisposition. I guess that would mean that Hannah Pauling's autism was caused by her underlying mitochondrial condition - not by the 9 vaccines she received in 1 day that triggered the autism. If she had not received those 9 vaccines - she likely wouldn't be where she is now. Does that mean in her lifetime is she were to remain unvaccinated that another environmental trigger wouldn't have ended in the same result? Maybe maybe not.

I also don't think that the initial symptoms being other neurological issues rules out anything either. Again - recent vaccine court cases have had similar stories (yet the children didn't die - just remain profoundly neurologically impaired) and their cases have been compensated. 

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

Including vaccine ingredients.

Of course. 

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

Well, having just had a friend of mine's 13 year old niece pass away on 12/18 because she ingested peanut oil in her chinese food, I don't entirely disagree with you.  I see your point, however if she had NOT eaten something laced with peanut oil she would be alive right now. - so the peanuts certainly played a huge role in her death

In this case If this child had an underlying problem (allergy or genetic condition) then that should be the cause of death, not necessarily what triggered the reaction. I guess I don't think it would be that absurd to entertain the notion that a trigger can be a cause of death rather than the underlying condition or genetic predisposition. I guess that would mean that Hannah Pauling's autism was caused by her underlying mitochondrial condition - not by the 9 vaccines she received in 1 day that triggered the autism. If she had not received those 9 vaccines - she likely wouldn't be where she is now. Does that mean in her lifetime is she were to remain unvaccinated that another environmental trigger wouldn't have ended in the same result? Maybe maybe not.

I also don't think that the initial symptoms being other neurological issues rules out anything either. Again - recent vaccine court cases have had similar stories (yet the children didn't die - just remain profoundly neurologically impaired) and their cases have been compensated.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend's niece, and I am sorry to have used such a personal example. 

I am not trying to argue that it is impossible that vaccines could have contributed.  I'm just saying that it seems ridiculous to assume or speculate that vaccines caused every single ailment that an infant might have, simply because it is not impossible.  Particularly in a case like this one, in which it would be an incredible coincidence to have two siblings both be affected by a rare non-genetic illness and we don't even know whether the children were vaccinated.  The evidence that we have points toward a genetic illness, and there are known genetic diseases that could have caused a similar progression of symptoms.

I think Hannah Poling's case is an interesting one, but I think it's far from clear what caused her symptoms and why.  In her case, though, we at least had the information that she seemed neurologically normal at one point; that she had been vaccinated, with vaccines containing thimerosal; that she had been given a very large number of vaccines at one time; and that her symptoms appeared shortly thereafter.  So there is at least a reason to speculate that it could have been related in her case.

[WildKingdom]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

 If this infant was vaccinated on the Canadian schedule, he probably received 5 vaccines at his 2 month visit, so showing seizure activity within a few weeks after vaccination wouldn't be unheard of. Then he would have gotten another 5 at his 4 month visit. Im not saying I think this is vaccine related, however since we have literally NO information about the details of this infant's medical history other than when he started having seizures, I don't see how it can be clearly genetic. In terms of his sister dying of a similar condition, to me that makes sense. Siblings share DNA, perhaps they both had some sort of condition where they were particularly susceptible to seizures that were triggered by some sort of environmental onslaught....so in that sense it very well could be genetic in terms of an underlying cause. (kind of like Hannah Pauling) Again, I'm not saying this poor babay died because of an adverse reaction, but there are just too many unknowns to rule anything out IMO.

He likely has an inborn error of metabolism.  These lead to toxic buildup of metabolic byproducts in the central nervous system.  Given the fact that his sister died of the same disease and his parents are first cousins, I think we can say it's clearly genetic.  And it doesn't have a thing to do with vaccines.

[Marnica]

His parents were first cousins? I must have missed that in the article. Interesting.

Once again - Im not saying I think this is vaccine related - What I said is that I can understand WHY the OP wondered if it was in the first place. sigh

 

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

He likely has an inborn error of metabolism.  These lead to toxic buildup of metabolic byproducts in the central nervous system.  Given the fact that his sister died of the same disease and his parents are first cousins, I think we can say it's clearly genetic.  And it doesn't have a thing to do with vaccines.

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

His parents were first cousins? I must have missed that in the article. Interesting.

Once again - Im not saying I think this is vaccine related - What I said is that I can understand WHY the OP wondered if it was in the first place. sigh

 

I missed it too... skimmed it over again and still don't see the reference to "first cousins." Point me in the right direction lol

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

He likely has an inborn error of metabolism.  These lead to toxic buildup of metabolic byproducts in the central nervous system.  Given the fact that his sister died of the same disease and his parents are first cousins, I think we can say it's clearly genetic.  And it doesn't have a thing to do with vaccines.

Well I looked at it a bit differently as some families seem predisposed genetically to vaccine reactions I felt perhaps that might have been another clue. Just speculation, and yes it could be something entirely unrelated to his vaccines, assuming he had them.. I just think with the little information given it cant be ruled out. I can't even imagine losing one let alone two. Heartbreaking.

[WildKingdom]

I googled for more information on the case.  There are many, many articles about it.  The first cousin information was in some of the articles.  The parents are Lebanese immigrants and they are first cousins.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

I googled for more information on the case.  There are many, many articles about it.  The first cousin information was in some of the articles.  The parents are Lebanese immigrants and they are first cousins.

 Interesting....only 2-3 generations ago first cousins getting married and having children was fairly commonplace. Totally irrelevant but interesting imo!

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

 Interesting....only 2-3 generations ago first cousins getting married and having children was fairly commonplace. Totally irrelevant but interesting imo!

It is apparently still common in Lebanon (and many other places).  It's not irrelevant, though, because genetic diseases are much more common in children when their parents are genetically related.  That's the primary reason many governments have discouraged or banned marriages between close relatives.