Healing Leaky Gut

[KKKK74]

Hi

Is anyone else trying to heal a leaky gut at the moment and interested in sharing some ongoing discussions about it?

These links are great so I'm going to add them at the beginning of this thread.

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1096747/where-to-start-help-101 

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/434071/healing-the-gut-tribe-cheat-sheet#post_4893042 

I'll write up more details of my son's history later. I hope there are some others keen to join the discussion - it would be great if we could get a group like the old 'healing the gut tribe' going.

[KKKK74]

My son is 2yrs 8 months and we've known for about a year that he probably has a leaky gut. He is allergic (histamine rash, breathing difficulties etc) to eggs and all red / green peppers etc. He is intolerant (bronchitis, sinusitis, rhinitis, glue ear, behaviour issues etc.) to gluten, dairy, sugars and fructose, all artificial preservative, colours, flavourings etc and something else possibly salicylates and certainly something on the sals list as he has shown improvement since starting the sals free diet.

He is showing all the classic low vit D, low zinc, low iron etc issues. We get his heavy metals results and more blood tests back tomorrow so will know more about that then. His metal tests were normal at 12 months so it will be interesting to see. 

We are about to begin a really intensive gut healing project but are drowning slightly in all the information. He is currently taking probiotics, omega 3, cod liver oil, iron, zinc, vit C, L-glutamine, slippery elm and homeopathic kali sulphate and kali chloride and Epsom salts.

Things I am planning on introducing in the next few weeks are digestive enzymes, water keffir, B6 (and other things but I forget what as I slowly drown in information !). I am looking at the GAPS diet but worried about how to combine it with his other allergies.

Any suggestions or information will be very much appreciated. I am slowly working through the links above and various other websites but it is taking me a while ! 

[mama.rye]

Hi Ladies! I would love to join the discussion.  My son is 2.5 and we have similar issues.  Dairy, soy, gluten, wheat, nightshades, coconut, and corn all set him off with bad hyperactivity, respiratory, and GI reactions.  All intolerances, no true allergies. 

We recently starting a low sals diet as well, and I am still not certain what I am looking for, but his sleep seems to have improved, so something is working. 

We ahve knowm leaky gut is an issue for awhile, but I too am drowning in information and questions and doubts.

We are inconsistant with supps because he eats so little and detects them in everything.  Lately, his appetite is increasing, and we got a Vita Mix, so I am ready to start working on hiding them again.

Have you found, KKKK, that the L Glutamine makes your little one sleepless or hyper?  I think it is having that effect on us...

I can't find a multi vitamin that doesnt have allergens in it for him.  I give him Vit C, and Cod Liver Oil.  We do Epsom Salt Baths and Homeopathics when needed.  For the first time, I used Bentonite Clay after he ingensted an allergen, and the reaction was MUCH shorter than usual!  Hooray for little victories...

I plan to start an agressive "Heal our Leaky Guts" regimen on April 1, Do either of you want to join me?  I need to be accountable to someone.  :)

It's so nice to know I am not alone.

Ryanna

[kati_kati]

Hi - I'm just starting down this path with my 3 yr old DS. I just posted our situation here: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1304902/lots-of-questions-igg-tests

I barely know anything about this but would love to discuss and learn from everyone else here!

-Kati

[KKKK74]

Hi guys - Thanks for responding. We all seem to be in a very similar place so hopefully can all help each other.

I'm completely onboard for the intensive April 'heal our leaky guts' start !

What are you planning on doing ??

We got our heavy metal hair test back last week and as expected they were high. They want to start him on DMSA suppositories in the next couple of weeks. We are a bit unsure as it's quite aggressive I think.

We started the clay bath thing today for the first time - we did a low dose and only ten minutes, I'll increase it next weekend if we don't see anything negative. I haven't tried the edible version yet. I bought the edible earth one but then saw it is high in chromium which is one of the things that came up high on his hair test so want to find out a bit more about it first.

Interesting what you ask about the L-Glutamine - he has been taking a long time to settle at night and sometimes he's not sleeping at all at lunch time - we give the L-glutamine in the morning at breakfast -  the timing would about match the introduction of the L-glutamine. I had put it down to just being 2 yrs 8 months so naturally dropping the lunch sleep (which I am fighting as I'm 6 months pregnant and need it even if he doesn't!). I have to take him off the L-glutamine in a few days for a bit (to increase the sugar/salicylate challenge - our L-glutamine mix is high in salicylates and we have to put it in pear baby food to get him to take it). It will be interesting to see what happens then - although of course I won't know if that's the sugar/salicylates thing ! 

Kate

[mama.rye]

I'm so encouraged!  April 1st I hope to just be better about focusing on his supps, keeping sals down, and journaling.  I am also in need of major gut healing, but put myself last of course.  I am growing increasingly more uncomfortable and dropping too much weight, so the timing is good.  I am going to make a sheet of his daily needs and mine, laminate it, and use a dry erase marker to cross off and circle what needs to still happen that day.  I am having troble keeping my thoughts organized (crippling ADD!) around the whole thing, and the information alone sends me into panic mode!

KKKK - let me know what you find with the LGlutamine! I remember reading on this board a long time ago that a group of mamas had found LGlutamine made their little ones sleepless... we could always post a seperate thread and see if those ladies are still around and could weigh in.  Can I ask what prompted you to get heavy metals test?  What are the symptoms of metals issues?

And sals question: it seems there is something where you need to balance the Omega 3's and 6's, but I'm not sure how to do this.  anyone know anything about this?

So far, I feel we need to keep up with (for him)

Probiotics, Fermented CLO, Dig Enzymes, Zinc (how do I get this from food into a toddler? I tried a liquid version that was foul!) MolyB, Mag, Complex B, and C.

Add to that, for me: Nettles, Milk Thistle, Turmeric and other yeast killers (this goes hand in hand with my leaky gut. Anyone else?)

Looking forward to continuning this conversation with you all!

Have a healthy Sunday...

Ryanna

[mama.rye]

Hi Katy! I just read your thread... wow. I feel your pain! We were there about a year ago after our testing. 

Meat is pretty much the only thing my DS easily digests.  Would you consider giving it to him or are you strict veggie?  I respect your lifestyle and one day imagine going veggie again!  I am reading alot about how hard grains are to process, and really going more of a meat and veggie and fruit and fat route.  Along the lines of Paleo, just while we are gut healing.  We have serious GI issues though, and it sounds like your DS has other symptoms.  Isn't it so hard to figure this puzzle out?!

Looking forward to figuring some of this stuff out together...

[KKKK74]

Yes - it is in the sals thread about the omega 3:6 ratio - basically you need to keep the omega 3's high and the omega 6's low - mamafish9 was posting about it. It is hard though because basically the sunflower and safflower which are low sal and in most of his new snacks etc are high in omega 6 and no omega 3. Canola oil is slightly better but still a 2:1 ratio omega 6:omega 3 I think. I thought Olive oil was higher in omega 3 than 6 but am reading conflicting things online  - I need to research it more. And of course olive oil anyway is high in Sals ! Let me know how you plan to increase the omega 3 and decrease the omega 6. I guess flaxseed on his cereal would be a good start - I've got some in the cupboard I'll start it tomorrow - thankyou for reminding me of that issue!

High metals can be a contributing factor to leaky gut, even if it isn't what caused it high metals can make it harder for the gut to heal once it is damaged - I can't remeber the science any more than that without looking it up. Anyway that was our reason for investigating his further.

I don't know if yeast has been / is a problem for him  - I suspect it was about a year ago when he was at his most sick from allergies he had the classic pot belly / super skinny limbs - like a starving Ethiopean image - which I believe is classic of yeast imbalance - he's had a year now of no sugar and high probiotic and that look has gone - he is now just skinny - so we're guessing he may of had yeast which is now more under control - this is guess work only. We should know a bit more in a few weeks when we have him potty trained and can do a full stool test. Otherwise I may look at the urine test that can look at yeast. He's never had the thrush etc out breaks.  

[kjbrown92]

Just curious where you all live. My kids have food intolerances and metals, etc. and they also have lyme (as do I). So just wondering if you've considered that. Have you done Magnesium to help sleep? Have any of you tried glutathione? Enzymes? Probiotics?

[KKKK74]

Kati - sorry for not replying sooner to your message but I've only just had time to read it properly and think about it. Sadly I can't offer any more input than the others have already but I do sympathise - your OK foods are about as limiting as ours and I know I am struggling. As of this morning I am pretty convinced he has a new intolerance. All the signs are there the cough, the blocked nose the sleeplessness. Behaviour is ok at the moment but that tends to be one of our later symptoms. Like you I just don't know how we can cope with an even more limited diet and I know he is going to pick up more intolerances as every time we take a food group out we are overloading his system even more with the limited range he is eating.

Kjbrown92 - we live in Singapore now but we are English (although my son has never lived in England, only visited). We use probiotics, we do epsom bath salts, he is about to start magnesium orally, glutathione cream (doctors prescription) and digestive enzmes - the low protease ones initially and then the higher protease ones (my prescription!). Have never considered Lyme and no nothing about it - I'll do a google.

Mama.rye - our liquid zinc tastes ok  - I mix it with rice / soy milk and he drinks it fine. It's the metagenics brand  - apparently it is not the most absorbable type but is alot better than nothing.

In my usual panic reaction to a new intolerance I started him on the oral clay today (yes the same one I said I was not going to start him on till I'd investigated further - which I haven't done!)

[mbravebird]

I know this is not the case for everyone, but it bears mentioning that parasites are very very common, and cause leaky gut. I tried to heal my leaky gut for years and just got worse. Then I got rid of parasites, and all of a sudden my gut-healing regimen started working like gangbusters, and food sensitivities I'd had for a few years cleared up (eggs and milk). Most people have parasites at some point, we all are exposed, and some of us are not as good at shedding them naturally. Here's my story, with everything I used to treat (while I was nursing): http://www.howigotmyhealthback.com .

I also recently treated my toddler for parasites, and saw some chronic rashes clear up, he gained four pounds, and he lost the circles under his eyes.

Leaky gut is certainly caused by other things, too, but after my personal experience I would never try healing a leaky gut without also doing a parasite cleanse at the same time. Just my $.02.

[kati_kati]

Thanks for your replies!

Originally Posted by mama.rye 

Hi Katy! I just read your thread... wow. I feel your pain! We were there about a year ago after our testing. 

Meat is pretty much the only thing my DS easily digests.  Would you consider giving it to him or are you strict veggie?  I respect your lifestyle and one day imagine going veggie again!  I am reading alot about how hard grains are to process, and really going more of a meat and veggie and fruit and fat route.  Along the lines of Paleo, just while we are gut healing.  We have serious GI issues though, and it sounds like your DS has other symptoms.  Isn't it so hard to figure this puzzle out?!

DS and I are strict veggie now, but my DH is not... It's seeming like there is no option but to give him meat/fish. I hope it can be temporary and he can be vegetarian again later. It's going to be really really hard for me. I've been vegetarian for a looong time.

Originally Posted by kjbrown92 

Just curious where you all live. My kids have food intolerances and metals, etc. and they also have lyme (as do I). So just wondering if you've considered that. Have you done Magnesium to help sleep? Have any of you tried glutathione? Enzymes? Probiotics?

We're in California and have not been tested for lyme. I can't remember what the symptoms are... We are supposed to start enzymes with this new diet plan... any day now! We have been on probiotics in the past and we were doing yogurt before daily too. Now if yogurt is out we will go back to probiotics...

Originally Posted by KKKK74 

Kati - sorry for not replying sooner to your message but I've only just had time to read it properly and think about it. Sadly I can't offer any more input than the others have already but I do sympathise - your OK foods are about as limiting as ours and I know I am struggling. As of this morning I am pretty convinced he has a new intolerance. All the signs are there the cough, the blocked nose the sleeplessness. Behaviour is ok at the moment but that tends to be one of our later symptoms. Like you I just don't know how we can cope with an even more limited diet and I know he is going to pick up more intolerances as every time we take a food group out we are overloading his system even more with the limited range he is eating.

It's hard to believe it's 'healthy' to eat such limited foods... is the idea that the gut will heal itself and then you can go back to a more varied diet? I guess I just don't get how this all works yet. I'm sorry you're stuck with so few to work with as well. One of the guides I read said that you just eliminate for a month and then re-test the food by eating it... are you finding that that works?

I think I'm far behind you all - I barely know what some of these supplements are. Right now it was recommended that we do multi vitamins, digestive enzymes, probiotics, omega 3's, calcium, iron, vitamin D, some homeopathic stuff, and some other stuff I can't remember right now...

Much to learn!!
 

[kati_kati]

Originally Posted by mbravebird 

I know this is not the case for everyone, but it bears mentioning that parasites are very very common, and cause leaky gut.

Are these the kind of parasites that they test for with a comprehensive stool analysis and parasitology??

[mama.rye]

 I'm starting tomorrow!  I'm not really sure what, but I am just heightening my awareness tomorrow, making good choices for both of us, and making a huge effort to get his supps in him and get those Omega 3's going as well.  Thank you for explaining that KKKK...

mbravebird - I have a poo test ready to utilize to test for parasites.  I do believe they could be a contributing factor. Thank you for reminding me to get on the ball with that. :)  And thnak you for the link to your blog and your story! You are amazing for following your inner wisdom of your dreams. 

kjbrown - we are in coastal NC, where I don't think Lymes is a problem, but I wouldn't discount anything at this point.  We do probiotics, digestive enzymes, epsom salt baths (and mag on the nights he does not).  I have heard of the importance of glutothione, but have not gotten any yet.  Is it tasteless and easy to supp?  Mine is positively gifted at detecting anything in his food.  I read online there are some lotions, but with his sals issues, I worry about putting anything on his skin.  Food for thought there?

I get so overwhelmed because it's not just one thing to fix.  I don't know how to safely detox from teh yeast, heal the leaky gut, deal with the metals and parasites issues, etc without feeling scared that I am doing something wrong.  I don't have a practitioner who is fully knowledgeable in all of these areas. 

Who is with me for starting a regimes tomorrow?  I am cutting out obvious sugars, vinegar and alcohol for my first week, drinking more water and taking my supplements.  I figure getting those things out can't hurt anything! 

I have bentonine clay that I may add to the regimen.

APRIL FIRST MARKS A NEW BEGINNING!  What are you changing, mamas?

xo

[kati_kati]

I'm with you! We are starting a rotation diet, eliminating all high sensitivity foods, and adding enzymes starting today. In a couple days we will add another supplement and slowly add on one at a time. (every few days) Happy April 1 and happy spring! Here's to success and healing!

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by kati_kati 

Are these the kind of parasites that they test for with a comprehensive stool analysis and parasitology??

Apparently the tests only catch some of them, but yes, that test will catch some, for sure. I think they're bad at finding protozoa? I can't remember.

[mama.rye]

Kati - I tried so hard to do a rotation diet!  Please post about how it goes so I might be inspired to go that route again.

In addition to what I have mentioned above, I am going to dabble in crystal testing.  i cannot keep guessing all the time, and it seems one day something "safe" is suddenly causing major issues.  I just have to find something to tie to a piece of string and start practicing!

Yes, to good health in the Spring. Perfect time for new beginnings!

[KKKK74]

Hi

How's it going for everyone ?

We are still waiting for our enzymes to arrive  - hopefully in the next 2 days and then we'll add them in. Kati - what enzymes are you adding ? I am starting with enzymedica lacto - which is a low protease enzyme meant to be good to start on for a damaged intestine. Then I am going to introduce enzymedica glutenease as my protease enzyme if he is tolerating the lacto one. Then I am hoping to add a high protease one between meals for virus/yeast/bacteria gut healing stuff but I've not researched this much yet so I don't know which one. I guess it will partially be based on how he is tolerating the others. If you can see anything in this plan that I have wrong please do tell me !

Also Kati I'd be interested to see how you're mapping your rotation diet out - I'm trying to do ours at the moment - which is hard when the foods are so limited. Some of my problem is I think I am trying to make it 'too perfect' ie food types one day then not at all for 4 days and that is just not possible with his limited range and so instead he is eating the same things over and over with no thought or planning. I think what I need to do is a less perfect but actually workable rotation diet that is at least better than what we are doing, even if he is having some of the lower risk foods slightly more often than is ideal. As soon as I have something I'll post it and would be interested in your feedback - I think it is often more obvious to other people what could be added to his meal plan - we tend to be a bit stuck in a rut with the same few ideas.

Unfortunately I suspect his new intolerance may be buckwheat which will make the rotation diet even harder ! He has been completely gluten free for a year now but I am contemplating trialing some spelt or kamut or similar when the digesive enzymes arrive. This would help massively with the rotation diet issues but of course may not be successful and I'm petrified of doing more damage to the gut if it is an irritant. What do you reckon good idea or too much too soon ?

Supplement wise everything is similar at the moment. We are waiting for some of the new stuff to arrive B6, molybdenum, selenium, malic acid and glutathione cream. It should be here next week.

Mama.rye - have you tried naets allergy/intolerance testing ? - you may be interested.

[kati_kati]

Hi Kate!

We're using Kirkman Enzym-Complete DPP-IV  II w/Isogest. Our doctor told us to sprinkle 1-2 capsules on food at the beginning of each big meal. I have no idea how this compares to what you mentioned. What does low protease mean? Is it about enzymes being damaging to the gut if they are too strong or something?

For the rotation diet, we have very limited foods that scored zero. There are a handful that scored low. So we are rotating those, and there are not many choices so it's not terribly hard I guess. We wrote out a list of four days of food and are rotating those. We're on day 6 (total) now and we are refining the practical stuff as we go (like when to cook what). Grains are the toughest one since only buckwheat was not eliminated, but they didn't test for very many. So we are taking a gamble on quinoa. We are rotating buckwheat, quinoa, potato, and sweet potato. They're not all grains, but something starchy I guess, for lack of alternatives. We tried amaranth one day and he had a humongous amaranth poop the next day… I guess that's not a good thing? (I have no idea honestly, how much it's ok to 'not digest'??) Then for fruits we also have about 5 that are 'low', so we assigned those to the four days. And for veggies. We also added fish and chicken :( , which he's never eaten before. I'm still waiting for the poop from the meat - no poop in 2.5 days!! Not normal. And he's been pretty lethargic too the last two days, which is not normal for him either. How would I tell if it's related to the diet changes? I have such a hard time figuring this out. We are going to try sticking to tested foods only for a few weeks, then consider adding more variety… not sure yet. I also really want to re-test to have more foods on the list. Also our test didn't test any oils, so we are blindly continuing to use olive oil.

People talk about looking at day to day changes to find out if foods are an issue. But how can you tell if it's the food or something else, like that he didn't sleep well…? What do you look for? Did you test for IgG reactions again recently and can you use that to decide if you should add buckwheat?? Have you tried other things like amaranth, quinoa, teff, tapioca?

[KKKK74]

Hi Kati

Ok I am no expert and currently a bit scared to be handing out advice as only last week I was supplementing my son with chlorella - which I've since found out may have been taking his heavy metals and dumping them in his brain ! so not my smartest move !

Anyway my understanding is that a high protease enzyme is too strong as a starter enzyme for a damaged gut and may cause more harm than good or at least discomfort for your son. The one you are using is high protease  - I think it is actually a great enzyme and the one I hope to eventually get Myles onto, just maybe not the best to start on. We are planning as I said to start on a low/no protease one to ease the gut in slowly.

I am basing most of this information on information from the book Enzymes - go with your gut. There is a good website that goes with the book - I've noticed it's referred to often in different forums so I assume the opinions are good and valid. This is a link to the section where she talks about the need to go slow with enzyme introduction - of course the book covers this in more detail but it's a good intro http://www.enzymestuff.com/basicsdosing.htm   Here is a link to the section helping you select the best enzyme http://www.enzymestuff.com/basicsproductguidelines.htm#7  I've included those two links as they are slightly hidden when you first start looking at the website - the whole website is great though and worth spending some time on if you are interested in exploring enzyme use.

But then if you've got a doctor you trust knows what they are doing and your son is tolerating the enzymes you are using don't listen to me - our enzymes are still in the post and we haven't even started them yet ! I am only regurgitating what I have read (and it's always possible I''ve misunderstood that!) - please anyone else feel free to correct me if I am wrong with any of this.  

I'll think through the other stuff later.

Kate