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"Don't have any more kids, please!" - Page 6

post #101 of 234

So I was doing my vounteer work the other day, I LOVE doing this and love the person in charge of the place I go to. Now I know I look young.... the older volunteer was telling the new girl how I have a large family and so on. She looks at me and goes: HOW OLD ARE YOU!! I smiled and replied, Old enough to know what causes it and young enoug to not care yet. And we are thinking of another.

 

Dang it. How is my age or how many kids I have public concern? No one else is raising them. We arent living off public assistance. My kids are happy, healthy, well behaved all around good kids.

 

People are so dang rude. Do they really think we want to talk about our husbands sperm and our eggs with them? I mean REALLY?

 

 

Next time I am gonna tell her I am 18 lol. Pretty far from the truth but could be fun just the same.

post #102 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy View Post

I get this a lot along with such rich variations on it as"do your kids have the same father?" and "I bet you've learned your lesson now" and "are you sure you know what you're doing."

 

It is mainly because I look so young.

 

I'm pretty fed up with people and their nosiness so I usually say flat out, "that's not really your business, is it?" Once, to an older lady who kept going on and on about how I should have stopped at one and didn't I know about birth control blah blah blah I just blurted out, "which one of my kids is the one who shouldn't be alive then?"

 

And I only have two.

 

Oh and another one, the lady thought I was 16, and said some pretty rude, age-biased things to me, and I listened politely and then said, "Well, I don't believe that about teenage mothers. I try to support them. I'm 23 and I've been revolving my life around my children since the day I got pregnant, so I know it can be done, I just try to encourage teen moms to rearrange their priorities too" etc etc. When I was done she looked really shocked and said, "oh! I just assumed you were a teen mom." And then I smiled and said, "well, you know what they say about assuming...." LOL

 

 


I love you so much for this! DH and I are 25 and have 5 children (including twins) and we get crap like this all.of.the.time. As if our lives are somehow other people's business. My favorite is "do they all have the same father?" Look, first of all that is a horrible question to ask. So what if they didn't? Would that make them less worthy to be here? Would I be less of a mother? Second of all this is the 21st century. We are an interracial family and it shows. Yes they are all ours, all from the same two parents. Yes it is possible to have two fair skinned blue-eyed kids, two darker complected brown-eyed kids, and one in the middle. And yes it is possible to be a responsible and loving teen/younger parent. Check your ageism, nosiness, and ignorance at the door folks! 

 

 

Another thing that bothers me is the whole "They're all yours?!" followed by the look of disgust and then "you should try again for a boy" headscratch.gif

 

I don't really mind comments like "you've got your hands full" because I do but it's the judgy "you shouldn't have so many kids" attitude that I can't stand. The next time someone says something like this to me I am tempted to ask them which one they think I should put back. 

post #103 of 234

I'm going to be hated, by some here, for saying this.  I wish it wasn't something that I had to think about, or even that any people on our planet had to consider at all.  I personally, hate the fact that this is even a thought.  

 

But, I do study the Earth's resources, and population counts.  ANd those population counts in comparison to resource values.  Its not looking good these days.  And with the progression of birth rate over the next several years, we'll have lesser and lesser food supply.  

 

And I am not going to dog anyone, especially not here, knowing that most parents and families who come here are more into natural living and are already doing all they can to be good to the planet and our finite resources.  ANd the fact that I LOVE large families.  I adore the closeness and loving binds that I've experienced with friends who have 9 siblings and my friends from South America who live with Gramma, 2 sisters all 4 of their kids and all of the pets... I so adore that closeness, Its why I chose to live where I live now.

 

BUT.  I have to ask.  I don't believe that the solution to the Earth's resources and the facts that they are being depleted at an astronomical rate, mainly by the US population, is going to go away.

 

It's not going away by praying or from God coming to save us from destruction.  I also do not think that we are able to handle continuing to create at a high number and expect our resources to provide.

 

I guess what I'm asking here is, from the larger families, how do you see the future of Earth?  And how do you see the population, if everyone has several children, how do you see the Earth being able to support ourselves?

 

Again, I am NOT anti-family, I am not anti large family... I'm just curious, given the facts on our finite resources of this planet and what your ideas are... other than religion.  

post #104 of 234

Maybe if certain people did not consider it politically incorrect to offer effective birth control to people in areas that cannot support life basically, maybe the world population would go down. I find it shocking when the same people who say someone in the middle of Iowa should not have but 1-2 children, but it would be wrong to offer vasectomies for free to men in Africa where people are dying from starvation. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by number572 View Post

I'm going to be hated, by some here, for saying this.  I wish it wasn't something that I had to think about, or even that any people on our planet had to consider at all.  I personally, hate the fact that this is even a thought.  

 

But, I do study the Earth's resources, and population counts.  ANd those population counts in comparison to resource values.  Its not looking good these days.  And with the progression of birth rate over the next several years, we'll have lesser and lesser food supply.  

 

And I am not going to dog anyone, especially not here, knowing that most parents and families who come here are more into natural living and are already doing all they can to be good to the planet and our finite resources.  ANd the fact that I LOVE large families.  I adore the closeness and loving binds that I've experienced with friends who have 9 siblings and my friends from South America who live with Gramma, 2 sisters all 4 of their kids and all of the pets... I so adore that closeness, Its why I chose to live where I live now.

 

BUT.  I have to ask.  I don't believe that the solution to the Earth's resources and the facts that they are being depleted at an astronomical rate, mainly by the US population, is going to go away.

 

It's not going away by praying or from God coming to save us from destruction.  I also do not think that we are able to handle continuing to create at a high number and expect our resources to provide.

 

I guess what I'm asking here is, from the larger families, how do you see the future of Earth?  And how do you see the population, if everyone has several children, how do you see the Earth being able to support ourselves?

 

Again, I am NOT anti-family, I am not anti large family... I'm just curious, given the facts on our finite resources of this planet and what your ideas are... other than religion.  



 

post #105 of 234

I get the opposite. My mother thinks it is ok to have multiple children..but only if it is by different people. She thinks no one should have more than one. Except anyone who has not had a child with their current partner. So SIL married my brother and had 4 children by 3 different men. But my mother is all upset that she did not also have one with my brother. So 5 children by 4 men if she did? Yet, my mother is upset that I have had 5 children by the same man. I have two cousins that married people that already had children. In both cases, they went on and had a child with that spouse. My mother also found that acceptable because "they have a right to have a child together." So I guess the key was that if I left my husband and had the 5 children by 5 different men, my mother would have been ok with it.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhelianthus View Post




I love you so much for this! DH and I are 25 and have 5 children (including twins) and we get crap like this all.of.the.time. As if our lives are somehow other people's business. My favorite is "do they all have the same father?" Look, first of all that is a horrible question to ask. So what if they didn't? Would that make them less worthy to be here? Would I be less of a mother? Second of all this is the 21st century. We are an interracial family and it shows. Yes they are all ours, all from the same two parents. Yes it is possible to have two fair skinned blue-eyed kids, two darker complected brown-eyed kids, and one in the middle. And yes it is possible to be a responsible and loving teen/younger parent. Check your ageism, nosiness, and ignorance at the door folks! 

 

 

Another thing that bothers me is the whole "They're all yours?!" followed by the look of disgust and then "you should try again for a boy" headscratch.gif

 

I don't really mind comments like "you've got your hands full" because I do but it's the judgy "you shouldn't have so many kids" attitude that I can't stand. The next time someone says something like this to me I am tempted to ask them which one they think I should put back. 



 

post #106 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by number572 View Post

It's not going away by praying or from God coming to save us from destruction.  I also do not think that we are able to handle continuing to create at a high number and expect our resources to provide.

 

I guess what I'm asking here is, from the larger families, how do you see the future of Earth?  And how do you see the population, if everyone has several children, how do you see the Earth being able to support ourselves?

 

Again, I am NOT anti-family, I am not anti large family... I'm just curious, given the facts on our finite resources of this planet and what your ideas are... other than religion.  


It's also not going to go away by limiting family size. That might actually make matters worse. When you really think about it the issue with what we face in this world with depleting and damaged supplies of resources is overconsumption not overpopulation. As it stands some nations are facing issue with dwindling populations. What has changed over time is not that people are having more children but that 1) we are consuming ridiculous amounts and 2) we have advanced life-saving medicines and methods. The latter is not very popular but it's true- if you want to go the "zero population" route you're going to have to start letting people die. And no, FTR I am not suggesting we do that. But again the crisis the Earth faces is not going to be affected by reducing family size as long as we keep up with rampant overconsumption. So we restrict a couple to one child each which at first will do something but later? When we keep up with this cycle of "more, more, more. bigger bigger bigger"? We're going to be in the same mess. That one child will end up consuming more in his or her lifetime than my 5 children will in there's. And what will we have to show? A depleted population gorging itself on Earth's gifts just like we are doing now. This is a very real possibility especially taking into account that no one seems to want to curb the real issue. I'm sorry but IMO limiting procreation is a copout. Basically we don't want to have more children so we can keep using up our resources the way we have become accustomed to and beyond. What needs to change is that attitude. We need to stop the rampant overconsumption and the pollution of our beautiful world if we want her to be around for us and our posterity. If you're looking for a quick and unsustainable fix preaching limiting family size makes sense. If you want real change we all need to be taken down a notch (or 15). 

 

So to answer your question I see us flushing Mama Earth down the toilet and fast and I see this happening with my 5 kids on this Earth or not. But maybe if we all start raising our children (no matter the number) to live consciously we can start to make a turn around. 

 

 

Also, I think it's important to note that not all families will be large ones. In this day and age when so many have access to birth control and so many have other options more and more people are opting for 1 or 2 or no children at all. I for one did not have 5 children due to my religion, Mormon or no. We would have if we were Atheists. It's just who we are. As such I don't expect other people to have this many children. I'm not banking on it either way. 

post #107 of 234

That is true about over consumption. The families I see with 1-2 children usually consume way more than the families I see with 5+ children. They seem to put more in to their material goods than each other. Plus, the bigger families tend to give back more to the community than the smaller families. You certainly do not see the Duggars all with cell phones at 6 yrs old and brand new clothes every season. They don't spend a bunch of time and gas driving around for the fun of it, or teens going out just driving around with friends. Their kids are not in 100 different activities that they must be driven to all the time. They are also not on big huge diesel school buses going to and from school daily. They don't have 2 TVs per person in the household, and so on. Then they turn around and do a lot of community service work. They also don't throw out 3.4 of the food that comes in to their house. They even buy in bulk so there is limited packaging material used.

post #108 of 234

Larger families are generally forced to live more simply. And throw in it being a religious large family and some subscribe to that level of simplicity because they feel it brings them closer to God. Not all of us religious folks are about looking to the heavens and forgetting the ground beneath our feet. Some of us do hold to being stewards, caretakers, of this Earth. 

post #109 of 234

Yeah, and I would never suggest limiting family size.  I'm one person.  Living with the heartache (daily) of not being able to have even one of my own, yet.  I'm coming from the point of the curiosity with this question, since I have actually given time to research our planet and our finite resources.  With that knowledge, fear does strike me.  What are we going for here? What are we prepared to do when the resources deplete?  Which, given the data, they will and very soon (within a few generations from our own).  It is scary.  You know?  It's frightening to think about what our children's children will have to depend upon.  If I am blessed with a child someday, what will he/she have to look forward to as far as resources?  And will he/she even have the luxury of bearing even one child at that time?

 

The friends I have, who come from larger families, do have a more materialistically conservative mindset (what they use)... but, still three conservative adult kids who then procreate and even have only one child each are going to use more resources than one parent raising one child who may go one to procreate one more child. Eventually this would make the overall population decrease and put a lesser demand upon the finite resources.  It does make sense if you think about it.  I mean, am I missing something, b'c it's basic math in my mind.  But I definitely am not looking to overstep anyone whose logic has progressed beyond my basics!  Maybe there is some solution that I've not discovered yet.

 

 

post #110 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

That is true about over consumption. The families I see with 1-2 children usually consume way more than the families I see with 5+ children. They seem to put more in to their material goods than each other. Plus, the bigger families tend to give back more to the community than the smaller families. You certainly do not see the Duggars all with cell phones at 6 yrs old and brand new clothes every season. They don't spend a bunch of time and gas driving around for the fun of it, or teens going out just driving around with friends. Their kids are not in 100 different activities that they must be driven to all the time. They are also not on big huge diesel school buses going to and from school daily. They don't have 2 TVs per person in the household, and so on. Then they turn around and do a lot of community service work. They also don't throw out 3.4 of the food that comes in to their house. They even buy in bulk so there is limited packaging material used.

I'm all for the idea of making your family what you want it to be, including size, but can we lose the generalities about about small families, please?  We can celebrate large families without the general bashing of small families.  One kid families are very common in my area due to simple logistics:  lack of space, HCOL, the older parent demographic and the logistics of getting around (a lot of us do without cars).  Brash generalizations in either direction really grate me.  Sorry.  Let's judge consumerism for what it is.
 

 

post #111 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by number572 View Post
but, still three conservative adult kids who then procreate and even have only one child each are going to use more resources than one parent raising one child who may go one to procreate one more child. Eventually this would make the overall population decrease and put a lesser demand upon the finite resources.  It does make sense if you think about it.  I mean, am I missing something, b'c it's basic math in my mind.  But I definitely am not looking to overstep anyone whose logic has progressed beyond my basics!  Maybe there is some solution that I've not discovered yet.

 

 

But it's not basic addition and I think that's what the problem is with this. We are assuming "1" = 1 and "3" = 3. It does seem that 1 child is more environmentally friendly than 3 but if that 1 child consumes more than those 3 children combined than that's not the case. It's not as simple as 1 is less than 3. If that "1" amounts to 75 and that "3" amounts to 20 x 3 equalling 60 going off of 1 < 3 doesn't exactly work. The thing is each number doesn't always equal to the same amount. Just because "1" is 75 doesn't mean that that "3" is standing for 3 different 75s in the equation. Clear as mud? Because I really suck and explain math-y things. Point being it just isn't simple addition. There are too many variables to reduce it to the alligator eating number three. 
 

 

post #112 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post



I'm all for the idea of making your family what you want it to be, including size, but can we lose the generalities about about small families, please?  We can celebrate large families without the general bashing of small families.  One kid families are very common in my area due to simple logistics:  lack of space, HCOL, the older parent demographic and the logistics of getting around (a lot of us do without cars).  Brash generalizations in either direction really grate me.  Sorry.  Let's judge consumerism for what it is.
 

 



This is true too. The road does go both ways. Don't assume the larger family has a greater footprint than the smaller and visa vera. Again with the variables. This just isn't simple enough issue to resort to generlizations. 

 

CC~ I apologize if I was appearing to get on smaller families cases. That wasn't what I meant at all. :(

post #113 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhelianthus View Post





This is true too. The road does go both ways. Don't assume the larger family has a greater footprint than the smaller and visa vera. Again with the variables. This just isn't simple enough issue to resort to generlizations. 

 

CC~ I apologize if I was appearing to get on smaller families cases. That wasn't what I meant at all. :(


No apology necessary holy!  It is just that I hear this argument a lot (from both camps) about carbon foot print and I don't think it is about family size or lack thereof but about personal responsibility and how individuals act.  I have my own personal opinions on carbon footprint and I think that most Americans fall dreadfully short on the  amount of waste they produce - me being the first one in line!  I think about simple stuff, like sandwich bags (even though we cook in bulk and try to simplify) and the napkins we get at the deli or the amount of clothes we go through during a year (even though we wear things thread bare).  It is amazing the amount of waste that we generate even when we are being super conscious about it.  Humans consume and create waste unfortunately.  I do give a lot of credit to people (of varying family sizes) who really, really try to break the cycle.  I read a blog recently of a family who has basically achieved zero waste and I admire that on so many levels.  Mainly because I have a long way to go in that department even though I admittedly have my smug moments.  If I do anything good in my life it is to instill in my DD the principles of being conscious about how she acts and the resources she utilizes.  It doesn't matter that she is an only kid and has more resources at her fingertips.  She should act in a responsible way because it is the right thing to do.  

 

post #114 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhelianthus View Post



But it's not basic addition and I think that's what the problem is with this. We are assuming "1" = 1 and "3" = 3. It does seem that 1 child is more environmentally friendly than 3 but if that 1 child consumes more than those 3 children combined than that's not the case. It's not as simple as 1 is less than 3. If that "1" amounts to 75 and that "3" amounts to 20 x 3 equalling 60 going off of 1 < 3 doesn't exactly work. The thing is each number doesn't always equal to the same amount. Just because "1" is 75 doesn't mean that that "3" is standing for 3 different 75s in the equation. Clear as mud? Because I really suck and explain math-y things. Point being it just isn't simple addition. There are too many variables to reduce it to the alligator eating number three. 
 

 



Yeah there are variables.  And variable of those variables.  And no one really knows how their child will decide to live as an adult.  A child could be raised very moderately and then become completely consumerist minded as an adult and utilize ten average people's resources.  So, with that above clear as mud math, 1 could end up ='ing 3 +!!  lol. 

 

No one knows.  And also, who is to say that someone's 9th child will not be the ONE who creates such an overwhelmingly hugely perfectly beautiful solution to an energy or food shortage problem that it saves the planet altogether.  No one knows.

 

 

(I'm just asking to see what people who have a lot of kids or want a lot of kids think, as far as Earth's given resources... & from what we know so far about Earth's depletion of those resources. ) 

post #115 of 234

But children are not property. I would rather see 2 good parents have a lot of children, than bad parents have any number of children. The way this conversation is being done, it makes it sound like it is all about quantity, not quality. If nothing else is apparent on Mothering, most of us here are all about our children and love them and are really in to them. Then there is a whole world of parents who abuse them, neglect them, etc. So any argument about number of children is nonsense. I think that all convicted felons should be neutered. Frankly, I think no one should ever be allowed to have children by more than 2 people, unless there were deaths. (as in, the reason they are not with the original partner is they lost them). I think people who proven to be failures of parents should be neutered too. If none of the bad parents had children, then the rest of us would need to have a lot of children to make up for it. And try to remember, the natural increase in the USA is negative. This means, we are not replacing ourselves. For every person who dies here, there is not even 1 baby being born. Due to illegal immigration, our population still rises. As a tax payer, I do not feel obligated to have no more children to make room for people who illegally sneak in to this country and collect welfare. Why should I have to have no more children to make room for theirs?

 

So I think we need to stop talking about children like they are property and in terms of numbers each person is entitled to and start talking about them like real human beings and let the good parents have all the children they want and leave those parents alone. And the next man who is in the news bragging about having 17 children by 13 women, we can chop is penis off. And frankly, every single woman who had a child with him should probably be neutered too.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by number572 View Post

Yeah, and I would never suggest limiting family size.  I'm one person.  Living with the heartache (daily) of not being able to have even one of my own, yet.  I'm coming from the point of the curiosity with this question, since I have actually given time to research our planet and our finite resources.  With that knowledge, fear does strike me.  What are we going for here? What are we prepared to do when the resources deplete?  Which, given the data, they will and very soon (within a few generations from our own).  It is scary.  You know?  It's frightening to think about what our children's children will have to depend upon.  If I am blessed with a child someday, what will he/she have to look forward to as far as resources?  And will he/she even have the luxury of bearing even one child at that time?

 

The friends I have, who come from larger families, do have a more materialistically conservative mindset (what they use)... but, still three conservative adult kids who then procreate and even have only one child each are going to use more resources than one parent raising one child who may go one to procreate one more child. Eventually this would make the overall population decrease and put a lesser demand upon the finite resources.  It does make sense if you think about it.  I mean, am I missing something, b'c it's basic math in my mind.  But I definitely am not looking to overstep anyone whose logic has progressed beyond my basics!  Maybe there is some solution that I've not discovered yet.

 

 



 

post #116 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

But children are not property. I would rather see 2 good parents have a lot of children, than bad parents have any number of children. The way this conversation is being done, it makes it sound like it is all about quantity, not quality. If nothing else is apparent on Mothering, most of us here are all about our children and love them and are really in to them. Then there is a whole world of parents who abuse them, neglect them, etc. So any argument about number of children is nonsense. I think that all convicted felons should be neutered. Frankly, I think no one should ever be allowed to have children by more than 2 people, unless there were deaths. (as in, the reason they are not with the original partner is they lost them). I think people who proven to be failures of parents should be neutered too. If none of the bad parents had children, then the rest of us would need to have a lot of children to make up for it. And try to remember, the natural increase in the USA is negative. This means, we are not replacing ourselves. For every person who dies here, there is not even 1 baby being born. Due to illegal immigration, our population still rises. As a tax payer, I do not feel obligated to have no more children to make room for people who illegally sneak in to this country and collect welfare. Why should I have to have no more children to make room for theirs?

 

So I think we need to stop talking about children like they are property and in terms of numbers each person is entitled to and start talking about them like real human beings and let the good parents have all the children they want and leave those parents alone. And the next man who is in the news bragging about having 17 children by 13 women, we can chop is penis off. And frankly, every single woman who had a child with him should probably be neutered too.
 



 

 

Wow.  
 

 

post #117 of 234

Uh, Oh my G no.  This is no where near what I was saying.  I don't even know where you got most of that.  

post #118 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

But children are not property. I would rather see 2 good parents have a lot of children, than bad parents have any number of children. The way this conversation is being done, it makes it sound like it is all about quantity, not quality. If nothing else is apparent on Mothering, most of us here are all about our children and love them and are really in to them. Then there is a whole world of parents who abuse them, neglect them, etc. So any argument about number of children is nonsense. I think that all convicted felons should be neutered. Frankly, I think no one should ever be allowed to have children by more than 2 people, unless there were deaths. (as in, the reason they are not with the original partner is they lost them). I think people who proven to be failures of parents should be neutered too. If none of the bad parents had children, then the rest of us would need to have a lot of children to make up for it. And try to remember, the natural increase in the USA is negative. This means, we are not replacing ourselves. For every person who dies here, there is not even 1 baby being born. Due to illegal immigration, our population still rises. As a tax payer, I do not feel obligated to have no more children to make room for people who illegally sneak in to this country and collect welfare. Why should I have to have no more children to make room for theirs?

 

So I think we need to stop talking about children like they are property and in terms of numbers each person is entitled to and start talking about them like real human beings and let the good parents have all the children they want and leave those parents alone. And the next man who is in the news bragging about having 17 children by 13 women, we can chop is penis off. And frankly, every single woman who had a child with him should probably be neutered too.
 



 



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsCradle View Post



 

Wow.  
 

 


Yeah!  Lisa, I never meant anything so hateful!  Are you ok?  I'm willing to delete the posts associated with mine, if you want, just let me know.l have posted stuff I don't mean before too... Just let me know.

post #119 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

But children are not property. I would rather see 2 good parents have a lot of children, than bad parents have any number of children. The way this conversation is being done, it makes it sound like it is all about quantity, not quality. If nothing else is apparent on Mothering, most of us here are all about our children and love them and are really in to them. Then there is a whole world of parents who abuse them, neglect them, etc. So any argument about number of children is nonsense. I think that all convicted felons should be neutered. Frankly, I think no one should ever be allowed to have children by more than 2 people, unless there were deaths. (as in, the reason they are not with the original partner is they lost them). I think people who proven to be failures of parents should be neutered too. If none of the bad parents had children, then the rest of us would need to have a lot of children to make up for it. And try to remember, the natural increase in the USA is negative. This means, we are not replacing ourselves. For every person who dies here, there is not even 1 baby being born. Due to illegal immigration, our population still rises. As a tax payer, I do not feel obligated to have no more children to make room for people who illegally sneak in to this country and collect welfare. Why should I have to have no more children to make room for theirs?

 

So I think we need to stop talking about children like they are property and in terms of numbers each person is entitled to and start talking about them like real human beings and let the good parents have all the children they want and leave those parents alone. And the next man who is in the news bragging about having 17 children by 13 women, we can chop is penis off. And frankly, every single woman who had a child with him should probably be neutered too.
 



 


So....no one convicted of a felony is worthy of being a parent? That's a very broad statement. Writing a bad check is a felony....based on what you are saying, a person who writes a bad check (for whatever reason) and is convicted of it is therefore incapable of parenting a child? Do you think that all convicted felons are terrible people who can't change their lives and become upstanding productive citizens? I'm sorry, but that really burns me. I my mind that is just as bad as saying that all gay people have aids, or all single mothers are whores. What a MAJOR stereotype.

 

And....I know this is not an illegal immigration debate, but people do not hide in trucks for days, wade through rivers, get lost in deserts with their children and pay thousands of dollars to shady traffickers just to come to the US and collect a $400/month welfare check. They just.....don't. Believe me or not, I don't care, but I don't know very many illegal immigrants (and I have known plenty) who don't work. If they aren't working, the fathers are working 60 and 70 hrs a week doing hard hard labor, and the moms are at home taking care of their children, which considering we are on MDC, I assume we all agree is a worthy occupation of one's time.

 

You come across with an "us" vs. "them" mentality. That "whole other world" of neglectful, abusive, horrible parents. Of course there are parents who don't do right, but I truly believe that *most* parents do their be? st with what they have available, what they know, and based on their own experiences in life. I don't think the solution is to neuter peple who make mistakes. How about educating them? Offering them tools to better themselves as potential parents?

 

Also, the "natural" increase in the US has been negative since the days of Jamestown. ALL of us are born of immigrants. Some are just more recent than others.

post #120 of 234

What waiting said. 

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