"Don't have any more kids, please!" - Page 11

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 6/4/12 at 7:53am

[number572]

I don't think it's a terrible thing to have someone on a discussion board with a different opinion.  There are many people who are aware of a huge population problem on Earth, with facts to back up the concerns.  There are some good documentaries available which summate what seems to be hippiemom's point.  I don't see why it's cool for people to be jumping all over her for voicing her opinion.  

ETA, population issues have little to do with what kind of parent a person is... based on the documented facts I've seen.  No one is saying that a person is a terrible parent for having several kids.  Well, maybe pp's in the past who have posted about high numbers of children in a family  taking away from individual attention for the kids.

[number572]

Also, just thought of this... I think there's a difference between someone telling someone not to have more kids, with an inference that they aren't able to handle the ones they've got, so "please, stop having kids!"  ...

and someone saying "hey, please consider the bigger population studies before having more kids"...

At least that's my take on this topic.  I honestly think that someone talking about considering the current general population issues is not coming in with an offensive attitude, trying to infer that people are bad parents for having several kids.

[hippiemom85]

Originally Posted by annettemarie 

Originally Posted by hippiemom85 

okay...ready? everyone will hate what I have to say. There are not many people who can take care of even ONE child. People have them, pour water on them occasionally, then do it again, and again. If you really can handle having child after child after child, and believe that they will grow up happy, get a great education and find career and partner that will make them happy go ahead. If you have child after child because you believe they will help the "world become a better place", great. But please people, don't be naive about the state of the world. It's pretty damn awful and having children means a lot more than having cute people to look over for about 18 years. I feel that we are all responsible for each other, it SHOULD be uncool to keep popping out kids without serious critical thinking. I could go deeper but feel I've said my peace

Speak for yourself. I happen to be a fabulous mother and every kid I have popped out does make this already great world an even better place. I feel really sorry for you if this is your view of the world and children in general, and your own child(ren) in particular Luckily, we don't all have to abide by your rues for who can and cannot procreate.

if you are in fact a fabulous mother, then you are not the type of mother I was referring to, and obviously completely missed my point, unfortunately..

[hippiemom85]

Originally Posted by kawa kamuri 

I cannot stand when birth is summed up as "popping out" babies. That's so gross. 

I think it's unfortunate when people completely ignore the issue at hand due to discomfort with terminologies. Never mind the fact that it makes sense in certain contexts. Sorry to have grossed you out though

[hippiemom85]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number572 

I don't think it's a terrible thing to have someone on a discussion board with a different opinion.  There are many people who are aware of a huge population problem on Earth, with facts to back up the concerns.  There are some good documentaries available which summate what seems to be hippiemom's point.  I don't see why it's cool for people to be jumping all over her for voicing her opinion.  

ETA, population issues have little to do with what kind of parent a person is... based on the documented facts I've seen.  No one is saying that a person is a terrible parent for having several kids.  Well, maybe pp's in the past who have posted about high numbers of children in a family  taking away from individual attention for the kids.

thank you

HOWEVER i don't think there should be a difference of a opinion here, and frankly it scares me that people honestly believe that the choice to be a parent isn't one that requires much more than just "wanting more kids". It is incredibly hard to raise a child and amazing responsibilities that lasts forever. So because having a child is the most beautiful thing in the world to you, when someone reminds you that not everyone is up for the challenge or even wants to be, everyone becomes defensive. Naive is a word that comes to mind. I know of people who just do not like condoms and do not believe in abortion, therefore they have kid after kid, looked over slighly more than a house cat. So I hardly appologize if I worry about my son growing up in a world full of uncared for indivuals. I spent YEARS yearning to have my child, and gave it massive amounts of thought,  and I'm sorry if I often wonder how someone can properly take care of 6 children
 

[hippiemom85]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife 

It would be great then, if you could outline your definition of critical thinking required to keep "popping out" kids.  Then we could all go through the check-list to be sure we are childbearing correctly, according to your standards.  And how many is too many? Shouldn't we all be thinking wisely before we even decide to bring just one baby into this awful world? 

Not sure just how much of this was said in a sarcastic tone, but we should all be thinking wisely before bringing a baby into this awful world. That is my one point check list

[gumblossom]

I hope that your comment:

and I'm sorry if I often wonder how someone can properly take care of 6 children

doesn't presume that all large families cannot  properly care for their children? I am  a mother of 5, and expecting another. Every one of my children were planned, they have been spaced out, and I believe are well-cared for, loved and happy. I suppose that depends on what you consider to be "proper" care? They don't get all the toys and material possessions that other kids get, but they don't complain too much about it. They live in the country, have loving parents, a decent education and feel secure and loved.

I see your point about children coming into the world (which I don't consider to be "awful") when they are unwanted and uncared for, however it isn't something that is limited to "large" families. There are many small families who may not be able to care for their children. It is unfair to say that children from large families are not planned, or cared for.

As for the world's population problem - yes - there is an issue, however I doubt that my large family will make much of an impact, particularly in a country (Australia) where we are struggling with zero population growth - like many Western countries. I'm not saying that is the case for the U.S., however I think population is an issue that is much much more complicated than just being a case of families in Western countries choosing to have large families. There is a an issue around  massive consumption in Western countries, and education in third world countries.

I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been said.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by hippiemom85 

Quote:

thank you

HOWEVER i don't think there should be a difference of a opinion here, and frankly it scares me that people honestly believe that the choice to be a parent isn't one that requires much more than just "wanting more kids". It is incredibly hard to raise a child and amazing responsibilities that lasts forever. So because having a child is the most beautiful thing in the world to you, when someone reminds you that not everyone is up for the challenge or even wants to be, everyone becomes defensive. Naive is a word that comes to mind. I know of people who just do not like condoms and do not believe in abortion, therefore they have kid after kid, looked over slighly more than a house cat. So I hardly appologize if I worry about my son growing up in a world full of uncared for indivuals. I spent YEARS yearning to have my child, and gave it massive amounts of thought,  and I'm sorry if I often wonder how someone can properly take care of 6 children
 

Fair enough. Right now I'm wondering how your view of the world as awful and children as a drain on the awful world's resources translates into your mothering as well.

And to be fair, you wandered into a thread started by a mother of many asking for commiseration from other mothers of many, so it shouldn't come as a great shock when other mothers of many on the thread are upset by you comparing them to an animal popping out a litter.

You're also making an error in assuming everyone sees things the way you do. I don't share your view on overpopulation, I don't share your views on birth control, and I don't share your views on parenting. I can't imagine investing the incredible amount of energy you seem to be advocating, even if I only had one. My children are all well cared for, but I definitely not bringing them up like they're the most important things in the universe. I don't see my responsibilities as lasting "forever". I certainly hope to be raising self-sufficient children who will eventually make their own way in the world. The difference is, I am not using deliberately inflammatory language nor am I trying to convince you to have more children. I don't think I've heard any mothers on many on this thread put down women for not wanting to have more children or putting down women who don't feel "up to the challenge". I've heard lots of inflamatory language coming from the other side though, comparing us to breeding animals and advocating forced sterilization (upthread). So yes, that does make me a little defensive. Just because you think there shouldn't be a difference of opinion--something I find rather baffling by the way-- doesn't mean there isn't one.
Edited by annettemarie - 6/9/11 at 8:04am

[kawa kamuri]

Originally Posted by hippiemom85 
I think it's unfortunate when people completely ignore the issue at hand due to discomfort with terminologies. Never mind the fact that it makes sense in certain contexts. Sorry to have grossed you out though

I ignored "the issue at hand" because I didn't consider it worth my time. 

[hippiemom85]

Originally Posted by gumblossom 

I hope that your comment:

doesn't presume that all large families cannot  properly care for their children? I am  a mother of 5, and expecting another. Every one of my children were planned, they have been spaced out, and I believe are well-cared for, loved and happy. I suppose that depends on what you consider to be "proper" care? They don't get all the toys and material possessions that other kids get, but they don't complain too much about it. They live in the country, have loving parents, a decent education and feel secure and loved.

I see your point about children coming into the world (which I don't consider to be "awful") when they are unwanted and uncared for, however it isn't something that is limited to "large" families. There are many small families who may not be able to care for their children. It is unfair to say that children from large families are not planned, or cared for.

As for the world's population problem - yes - there is an issue, however I doubt that my large family will make much of an impact, particularly in a country (Australia) where we are struggling with zero population growth - like many Western countries. I'm not saying that is the case for the U.S., however I think population is an issue that is much much more complicated than just being a case of families in Western countries choosing to have large families. There is a an issue around  massive consumption in Western countries, and education in third world countries.

I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been said.

I guess I'm presuming purely based on my own experience with only ONE child and how incredibly hard it is. You sound like a very reasonable and wonderful person/parent, but curious to what you think it would be like if everyone believed that their own choice to have as many children as they feel would effect the world. Well you can see it already, we're up to 8 billion people, and that's including millions of children needing loving homes, poverty, starvation, and so on it goes.

I appreciate you're tone, thank you for not attacking me

I am curious, and you can disregard if you choose, why do you to want so many kids? is it religious? spiritual? happiness?

[hippiemom85]

Originally Posted by annettemarie 

Originally Posted by hippiemom85 

Quote:

thank you

HOWEVER i don't think there should be a difference of a opinion here, and frankly it scares me that people honestly believe that the choice to be a parent isn't one that requires much more than just "wanting more kids". It is incredibly hard to raise a child and amazing responsibilities that lasts forever. So because having a child is the most beautiful thing in the world to you, when someone reminds you that not everyone is up for the challenge or even wants to be, everyone becomes defensive. Naive is a word that comes to mind. I know of people who just do not like condoms and do not believe in abortion, therefore they have kid after kid, looked over slightly more than a house cat. So I hardly apologize if I worry about my son growing up in a world full of uncared for individuals. I spent YEARS yearning to have my child, and gave it massive amounts of thought,  and I'm sorry if I often wonder how someone can properly take care of 6 children
 

Fair enough. Right now I'm wondering how your view of the world as awful and children as a drain on the awful world's resources translates into your mothering as well.

And to be fair, you wandered into a thread started by a mother of many asking for commiseration from other mothers of many, so it shouldn't come as a great shock when other mothers of many on the thread are upset by you comparing them to an animal popping out a litter.

You're also making an error in assuming everyone sees things the way you do. I don't share your view on overpopulation, I don't share your views on birth control, and I don't share your views on parenting. I can't imagine investing the incredible amount of energy you seem to be advocating, even if I only had one. My children are all well cared for, but I definitely not bringing them up like they're the most important things in the universe. I don't see my responsibilities as lasting "forever". I certainly hope to be raising self-sufficient children who will eventually make their own way in the world. The difference is, I am not using deliberately inflammatory language nor am I trying to convince you to have more children. I don't think I've heard any mothers on many on this thread put down women for not wanting to have more children or putting down women who don't feel "up to the challenge". I've heard lots of inflammatory language coming from the other side though, comparing us to breeding animals and advocating forced sterilization (upthread). So yes, that does make me a little defensive. Just because you think there shouldn't be a difference of opinion--something I find rather baffling by the way-- doesn't mean there isn't one.

Okay, I respect your position

Umm, okay, how do I rebuttal??

I definitely want to raise self- sufficient children but I don't think that my responsibilities to my children will ever end. I have two parents who conveniently felt that once I hit 18, I should have just figured it all out and support got cut off immediately the day I moved out. I don't want want to raise my kids having them believe that they are more important thing in the UNIVERSE, that would be an immense amount of pressure for them, I want to raise them knowing that the world does not only belong them and their time and effort are very valuable resources.  In the past it made sense to just want to raise a family, now, we live in a different world and I think that some fixing need to get done before we can keep procreating. Obviously this is what I think.

I have my son, and perhaps one day I will have one more, I'm hoping to adopt. To me the decision to have a child is a purly selfish instinct,  I'm not doing anyone a favor. And it kind of drives me a little crazy when I hear mothers that think they are doing part, just by having children. I saw a pregnancy t-shirt that said "I created life, what have YOU done lately", give me a break!

Forced sterilization is a little intense, I would not want to force someone into submission, Most time I actually appreciate different life styles even when I cant possibly agree with them.

I wandered into the thread, yes, I didn't realize that MDC was only for people who wanted to heard their own voice echoed back to them. I think there are other ways of conveying an opion such as "no more kids please" , it IS rude,  but it is a thought I've had on several occasions.

[hippiemom85]

I'm going to respectfully bow my way out of this discussion,  don't feel like arguing

[KempsMama]

I feel sorry for anyone who views pregnancy and birth as a selfish endeavor.  To me, and I think, to most moms, it is one of the most selfLESS acts a human can participate in. 

[waiting2bemommy]

Originally Posted by KempsMama 

I feel sorry for anyone who views pregnancy and birth as a selfish endeavor.  To me, and I think, to most moms, it is one of the most selfLESS acts a human can participate in. 

This is so true. And beyond just the birth itself, everyone I know who thinks raising kids is sooo easy pretty much does not care beyond the basic feeding, clothing and keeping alive of their children. I ended a friendship over that attitude. she just doesn't want to be bothered with them at ALL. But she continues to get pregnant (with somebody who announced in front of 15 people "I f-ing hate kids.") It's people like that who give a bad name to moms of many kids who really are hands on with their kids and are raising them selflessly.

If you do it right, or at least TRY to do it right, it is LOTS of work. Definitely not selfish!

[wildmonkeys]

Hmmm..I have to say that one of the most selfless AND SELFISH things I have ever done is having my last two sons. I have raised them the best that I could to this point --- always focused on them and their best interest - I will love and protect them until the end of time, but hey...I had them both because I wanted another baby ;) Maybe everyone is right and it is a give and get situation...B

[Veronika01]

Originally Posted by hippiemom85 

I am curious, and you can disregard if you choose, why do you to want so many kids? is it religious? spiritual? happiness?

You said in a previous post that you yearned for years for your one child. Why did you yearn for him? is it religious? spiritual? happiness? Because I can assure that every single child in a larger family, especially the larger families on Mothering, were yearned for in the same way.

[holyhelianthus]

It's not about differing opinion it's about the total tactless way that differing opinion is worded. "Popping out kids" really?! There was a lot of assumption in that post and not much room for discussion. 

[KempsMama]

Originally Posted by holyhelianthus 

It's not about differing opinion it's about the total tactless way that differing opinion is worded. "Popping out kids" really?! There was a lot of assumption in that post and not much room for discussion. 

I agree, that wording is offensive.  But it doesn't surprise me that she used that language, given her overall feelings towards birth.

[hippiemom85]

Originally Posted by KempsMama 

I agree, that wording is offensive.  But it doesn't surprise me that she used that language, given her overall feelings towards birth.

ummm okay, i just want to say that you just dont "get it", and that's fine. Silly of me to even have said anything at all