Do you, or someone you know personally, have a ZERO credit score like Dave Ramsey talks about? - Page 5

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by mum4boys 

This is from Bank of America's website which I do believe is the largest bank in America.

Do I need good credit to get an airline Debit Card? No. There are no credit requirements. All you need is a Bank of America checking account.

http://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/checksave/index.cfm?template=lc_faq_checkcards 

Hey, I'm real glad you posted this, b/c we use our BoA debit card every day.  I don't know why I never noticed this option before, but I'm going to sign up right now (it's a $30 annual fee - but it seems like it would be worth it).  Thanks, mum4boys!

eta: even Disney has a rewards debit card, so maybe more places are giving out points to non-credit card users?  I also have a Target debit card as well as one for gas at Shell.  Both offer discounts for using them, so even though the money comes right out of my checking account, it's worth it to carry around the extra cards. 

Edited by Drummer's Wife - 3/22/11 at 6:37pm

[Tumble Bumbles]

Originally Posted by ChristyMarie 

Please see the bolded part of my post above.  You NEED established credit to obtain a debit card.  They run a credit check before issuing one.

This is absolutely 100% false. You do not need established credit to obtain a debit card. Give me some resources on that "information" please.

Can I get a Visa Debit card even if I don’t qualify for credit?

Yes, you do not need to qualify for credit to receive a Visa Debit card. You just need an eligible checking account. The funds are deducted directly from your checking account and not borrowed.

http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/debit/visa_check_cards_faq.html#anchor_5 

That's from another site than the pp mentioned.

[rhiandmoi]

Originally Posted by MissinNYC 

I think it's silly to say one cannot live without credit. My ILs have never had credit cards or credit available, and when their kids got sick (heck, they didn't even believe in medical insurance!) they just ran a bill with the hospital, paid it off slowly, and negotiated. Most places will negotiate with people who don't have insurance or credit cards, IME. It's not how I would have done it, but they managed to raise 7 kids with some serious health crises and never go bankrupt. 

As for me, I don't see how credit could help me in those circumstances people keep describing. I have as much cash on hand as I could qualify for credit for. Meaning- I have at least $XX,XXX in the bank right now, and I know if I were to apply for credit, I would not qualify for more than that. How could that credit card help me in an emergency, then?

This is credit.
 

[Tumble Bumbles]

It's really interesting to see the reactions people have when people say they don't use credit. It says a lot about society. Again, I have no issue with people who use credit, especially if they use it wisely (I don't pay their bills or live their lives, after all). There just seems to be this ... hostility almost... toward people who choose not to involve themselves with it as an intentional choice (for whatever personal, ethical, or even practical reason). I find it interesting.

It's the same kind of attitude I see toward people who live a minimalist lifestyle. Like the very act of choosing not use credit (or have a lot of 'stuff') is some sort of value judgment against people who do. Like they have to defend their choice to use credit (or have stuff). It's really not necessary. As long as we're all happy with how we've chosen to live, what's the problem?

It's the misinformation and fear-based comments that get to me. Like, one can't possibly survive in society at all without a good credit rating, or "established credit" -- and that's simply not the case (yet lol).

[mum4boys]

Originally Posted by Tumble Bumbles 

It's really interesting to see the reactions people have when people say they don't use credit. It says a lot about society. Again, I have no issue with people who use credit, especially if they use it wisely (I don't pay their bills or live their lives, after all). There just seems to be this ... hostility almost... toward people who choose not to involve themselves with it as an intentional choice (for whatever personal, ethical, or even practical reason). I find it interesting.

It's the same kind of attitude I see toward people who live a minimalist lifestyle. Like the very act of choosing not use credit (or have a lot of 'stuff') is some sort of value judgment against people who do. Like they have to defend their choice to use credit (or have stuff). It's really not necessary. As long as we're all happy with how we've chosen to live, what's the problem?

It's the misinformation and fear-based comments that get to me. Like, one can't possibly survive in society at all without a good credit rating, or "established credit" -- and that's simply not the case (yet lol).

I have to agree with you. I do not understand the attitudes either. People should be allowed to live their lives as they see fit. It reminds me when my 3rd child was about to be born. and I casually said we were not going to use bottles, people just freaked out like somehow me just breast feeding our child was some how an attack on how they parented. (this was 13 years ago)

[swede]

Originally Posted by mum4boys 

That is absolutely false about needing credit to have a debit card.  

 All of our medical expenses are paid out of pocket at the time of service. Seattle Children's allows personal checks to be written for cash once a day for the parents of patients. I am sure other hospitals have the same policy. This line of questioning is kind of ludacris. There are all kinds of scenarios one can go through if you have credit cards. What happens if your wallet is stolen on the way to this emergency? What are you going to do then? Seriously I do not live my life full of what ifs. We plan for what we can but we do not worry about some scenario that has about as much chances as happening as winning the lottery.

My daughter's surgery was upwards of 100,000  - I don't have that kind of money sitting in my checking account.

[mum4boys]

Originally Posted by swede 

My daughter's surgery was upwards of 100,000  - I don't have that kind of money sitting in my checking account.

and???? you put it on a credit card?

[swede]

Originally Posted by mum4boys 

I have to agree with you. I do not understand the attitudes either. People should be allowed to live their lives as they see fit. It reminds me when my 3rd child was about to be born. and I casually said we were not going to use bottles, people just freaked out like somehow me just breast feeding our child was some how an attack on how they parented. (this was 13 years ago)

Borrowing or "credit" has been around since the beginning of time, but bottles haven't.  I swear, I am not responding on this thread because I feel defensive.  I just think, as a previous poster said, that you are being deliberately obtuse - and that in fact you don use "credit" although perhaps not in the form of a bank owned credit card. I don't think a credit card is "neccessary", but I think 'access' to one is.  I have never used bottles, either and my oldest is 12 ;)

[swede]

Originally Posted by mum4boys 

and???? you put it on a credit card?

no, but we did owe 20% of that, which we did not write a check for.  We had "credit" with the hospital. 

[mum4boys]

what does that have to do with the the original topic or the fact we have chosen to go debt free? Your finances does not have anything to do with my finances nor how we choose to live our lives. As previously stated we had almost maxed out Liam's lifetime cap on our insurance. We still did not charge anything.

[mum4boys]

o

 

Originally Posted by swede 

Borrowing or "credit" has been around since the beginning of time, but bottles haven't.  I swear, I am not responding on this thread because I feel defensive.  I just think, as a previous poster said, that you are being deliberately obtuse - and that in fact you don use "credit" although perhaps not in the form of a bank owned credit card. I don't think a credit card is "neccessary", but I think 'access' to one is.  I have never used bottles, either and my oldest is 12 ;)

The original topic was do you know anyone with zero credit score. No one on this thread said, it is not okay to have a credit card. What has been said over and over again is live your life how you feel you need to live it. If you want a credit card, Fine. No one is judging you for having one. It is your choice. But the problem is when people say you cannot live without credit. Of course you can and through out history it has been proven over and over.

The bottle comment was anecdotal comparing how people get upset over things that do not personally effect them i.e. me not using credit has no personal bearing on whether or not you do same as me not using a bottle has nothing to do whether you do or do not.

[zebu]

I think what people are reacting to is the smugness and holier-than-thou attitude.

Originally Posted by Tumble Bumbles 

It's really interesting to see the reactions people have when people say they don't use credit. It says a lot about society. Again, I have no issue with people who use credit, especially if they use it wisely (I don't pay their bills or live their lives, after all). There just seems to be this ... hostility almost... toward people who choose not to involve themselves with it as an intentional choice (for whatever personal, ethical, or even practical reason). I find it interesting.

It's the same kind of attitude I see toward people who live a minimalist lifestyle. Like the very act of choosing not use credit (or have a lot of 'stuff') is some sort of value judgment against people who do. Like they have to defend their choice to use credit (or have stuff). It's really not necessary. As long as we're all happy with how we've chosen to live, what's the problem?

It's the misinformation and fear-based comments that get to me. Like, one can't possibly survive in society at all without a good credit rating, or "established credit" -- and that's simply not the case (yet lol).

[texmati]

I don't think a zero fico score exists... and personally I wouldn't aim for one either. I don't do things just to build my credit (especially if it *costs* me money!).is But I don't see the point in reducing my options for no good reason.

I think DR is sort of using hyperbole on this one. Also, having no debt doesn't equal having a zero credit score. 

[Lucy Alden]

Originally Posted by nmbutts 

I think what people are reacting to is the smugness and holier-than-thou attitude.

Really?  I'm not getting that vibe at all.  It seems to me that mum4boys and Tumble Bumbles are just saying that they have choosen not to have or use credit for whatever reason.  It works for them.  They've both said repeatedly that they have no issue with others choosing to use credit.

Personally, I do think there is something radical and unnerving about not having credit.  Its so ingrained in our Western conciousness that credit/debt is a part of being a responsible adult.  Going against that is difficult and really takes a mind shift.  DH and I have two zero balance credit cards sitting in our filing cabinet.  We haven't touched them in several years but we can't seem to cancel them.  I guess partly its fear of the "what ifs" and also concern that our insurance will go up.  I think once we pay off our mortgage we'll ditch the credit cards.

And I'm finding the discussion about leveraging debt to increase wealth crazy interesting.  DH and I are not at all capable of using credit to our advantage.  Every time we've tried to "play the game" we've gotten played.  We're just not that smart or clever.  That some of you are able to do that is fascinating.  

And to answer the original question, the only people I know with a 0 credit score are my three underaged kids!

[lalaland42]

Originally Posted by mnnice 

I am not mum4boys but I don't think she is trying to be obtuse or intellectually dishonest. 

The main thing I could envisioning happening to my family that would completely tap out our resources for would be a huge medical castrope that would exceed my medical coverage.  However, I would view putting medical expenses on a credit card as an exercise in pointless "kicking the can down the road."  If I need to declare bankrupcy than I will declare bankrupcy with zero shame. I think her point was that if you have a truly life changing event incuring 7 figures how is having a credit card with a 10k credit limit going to alter things much?  You are going to need to find you help elsewhere.  

Also the most of the other senarios that I can think of where my resources would run out tend to be pretty "tinfoil hat wearing" and I am convinced that a credit card (mine or anyone elses) would merely be a 2X3 piece of plastic good for jimming locks or as a small scraping device.

Well I needed access to $5000 above my emergency fund and savings to move when I lost my job (layoffs) and DH's only job offer was on a different continent. He is a professor and you go where you get an offer. It would have been stupid to say, "oh hai I am going to tell DH to get a job not in his field because I don't want to charge part of the move." And no, I couldn't have done the move cheaper.

Personally, I wouldn't charge medical bills either but there are other things in life besides medical bills. 

[velochic]

Originally Posted by mum4boys 

what does that have to do with the the original topic or the fact we have chosen to go debt free? Your finances does not have anything to do with my finances nor how we choose to live our lives. As previously stated we had almost maxed out Liam's lifetime cap on our insurance. We still did not charge anything.

The topic is not about being DEBT free, it's about having a ZERO CREDIT SCORE.  There is a huge difference, and I think that is what is frustrating for some of the posters.  There are people here saying that they don't use credit at all, but what they're really saying is that they don't carry consumer debt.  Even if you use a debit card, there is credit working in the background as the payment is processed.  You don't see it, I don't see it, but this is how the whole world of finance operates as banks exchange money literally on a daily basis with a margin involved.  Unless you quite literally use only paper money ALWAYS, then you use credit.  If even once you use your debit card, you are utilizing credit (not your own credit, but the bank's) and you're going to have some sort of credit paper trail and score.  If you've had to pay a doctor's bill over a period of time, you've used credit.  If you've rented an apartment, you are using credit.  Utilities... you use them and then pay for them later... credit.  To say that you don't ever use credit is probably just a misunderstanding of how finance works.  I don't think anyone is being deliberately obtuse.  I'm sure there are people who only use cash, but somewhere behind the scenes, there is usually credit in operation.

And I wanted to add that I don't believe that Dave Ramsey has a zero credit score.  Secondly, he's rich enough because he peddles others' ideas (his entire premise is based on Larry Burkett, from Christian Financial Concepts, who is now dead and can't sue him) and doesn't need credit like most people.  He may not use credit, but he has in the past... he's got a score of some sort, I'm sure.

ETA: We are debt-free and have never paid interest in all of our years for anything but our mortgage.  We use our credit card for EVERYTHING and have never failed to pay it off every single month... and we are in our 40's and 50's, using credit for 25-35 years.  We have excellent credit scores.  I'm truly a believer in using credit wisely and to your advantage (and have been very successful with that philosophy), and while that doesn't work for everyone, it doesn't make me a "user" of the system and I'm not "making prices higher for everyone else", as one person implied.  It makes me financially healthy.  Everyone needs to do whatever they think is best, but people who utilize credit are not evil and it doesn't make people who try to not use it "better".

Edited by velochic - 3/23/11 at 4:36am

[monkey's mom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by velochic 

  There are people here saying that they don't use credit at all, but what they're really saying is that they don't carry consumer debt.  Even if you use a debit card, there is credit working in the background as the payment is processed.  You don't see it, I don't see it, but this is how the whole world of finance operates as banks exchange money literally on a daily basis with a margin involved.  Unless you quite literally use only paper money ALWAYS, then you use credit.  If even once you use your debit card, you are utilizing credit (not your own credit, but the bank's) and you're going to have some sort of credit paper trail and score.  If you've had to pay a doctor's bill over a period of time, you've used credit.  If you've rented an apartment, you are using credit.  Utilities... you use them and then pay for them later... credit.  To say that you don't ever use credit is probably just a misunderstanding of how finance works.  I don't think anyone is being deliberately obtuse.  I'm sure there are people who only use cash, but somewhere behind the scenes, there is usually credit in operation.

This is where I see the disconnect. To say things like "I only pay cash and if I don't have the cash I don't get it," and then say, "When we couldn't pay up front, we had a debt with the hospital." Those two statements contradict each other. Which is not any judgement on people's lifestyle or choices, but it's really confusing to understand what people are really saying--and to know if they understand (or care) that maybe their definitions are not widely accepted.

I've seen people on this board say they don't count their debt if they have the money to pay it off. Or they are debt free but have a mortgage or lease agreement. These are debts. Again, not judging, but it's not accurate.

I think that's when you see how much we are a credit/debt society....we don't even see when we have debt or use credit. Or we think that our debts are just "givens" (in that, everybody has it, ie. a mortgage) that they somehow don't count.

[ChristyMarie]

I want to apologize for my misinformation.  I was going off of my experience of a little over 10 years ago in trying to open new accounts and get a debit card during a very nasty divorce with some really bad financial stuff going on.  I thought I was turned down for a debit card based on my credit report.  I could be remembering that wrong or laws/practices could have changed in the last 10 years.

Originally Posted by velochic 

The topic is not about being DEBT free, it's about having a ZERO CREDIT SCORE.  There is a huge difference, and I think that is what is frustrating for some of the posters.  There are people here saying that they don't use credit at all, but what they're really saying is that they don't carry consumer debt.  Even if you use a debit card, there is credit working in the background as the payment is processed.  You don't see it, I don't see it, but this is how the whole world of finance operates as banks exchange money literally on a daily basis with a margin involved.  Unless you quite literally use only paper money ALWAYS, then you use credit.  If even once you use your debit card, you are utilizing credit (not your own credit, but the bank's) and you're going to have some sort of credit paper trail and score.  If you've had to pay a doctor's bill over a period of time, you've used credit.  If you've rented an apartment, you are using credit.  Utilities... you use them and then pay for them later... credit.  To say that you don't ever use credit is probably just a misunderstanding of how finance works.  I don't think anyone is being deliberately obtuse.  I'm sure there are people who only use cash, but somewhere behind the scenes, there is usually credit in operation.

And I wanted to add that I don't believe that Dave Ramsey has a zero credit score.  Secondly, he's rich enough because he peddles others' ideas (his entire premise is based on Larry Burkett, from Christian Financial Concepts, who is now dead and can't sue him) and doesn't need credit like most people.  He may not use credit, but he has in the past... he's got a score of some sort, I'm sure.

ETA: We are debt-free and have never paid interest in all of our years for anything but our mortgage.  We use our credit card for EVERYTHING and have never failed to pay it off every single month... and we are in our 40's and 50's, using credit for 25-35 years.  We have excellent credit scores.  I'm truly a believer in using credit wisely and to your advantage (and have been very successful with that philosophy), and while that doesn't work for everyone, it doesn't make me a "user" of the system and I'm not "making prices higher for everyone else", as one person implied.  It makes me financially healthy.  Everyone needs to do whatever they think is best, but people who utilize credit are not evil and it doesn't make people who try to not use it "better".

Thank you for this post.  You nicely summed up a lot of what I was trying to say, rather unsuccessfully. 

[swede]

Originally Posted by velochic 

The topic is not about being DEBT free, it's about having a ZERO CREDIT SCORE.  There is a huge difference, and I think that is what is frustrating for some of the posters.  There are people here saying that they don't use credit at all, but what they're really saying is that they don't carry consumer debt.  Even if you use a debit card, there is credit working in the background as the payment is processed.  You don't see it, I don't see it, but this is how the whole world of finance operates as banks exchange money literally on a daily basis with a margin involved.  Unless you quite literally use only paper money ALWAYS, then you use credit.  If even once you use your debit card, you are utilizing credit (not your own credit, but the bank's) and you're going to have some sort of credit paper trail and score.  If you've had to pay a doctor's bill over a period of time, you've used credit.  If you've rented an apartment, you are using credit.  Utilities... you use them and then pay for them later... credit.  To say that you don't ever use credit is probably just a misunderstanding of how finance works.  I don't think anyone is being deliberately obtuse.  I'm sure there are people who only use cash, but somewhere behind the scenes, there is usually credit in operation.

And I wanted to add that I don't believe that Dave Ramsey has a zero credit score.  Secondly, he's rich enough because he peddles others' ideas (his entire premise is based on Larry Burkett, from Christian Financial Concepts, who is now dead and can't sue him) and doesn't need credit like most people.  He may not use credit, but he has in the past... he's got a score of some sort, I'm sure.

ETA: We are debt-free and have never paid interest in all of our years for anything but our mortgage.  We use our credit card for EVERYTHING and have never failed to pay it off every single month... and we are in our 40's and 50's, using credit for 25-35 years.  We have excellent credit scores.  I'm truly a believer in using credit wisely and to your advantage (and have been very successful with that philosophy), and while that doesn't work for everyone, it doesn't make me a "user" of the system and I'm not "making prices higher for everyone else", as one person implied.  It makes me financially healthy.  Everyone needs to do whatever they think is best, but people who utilize credit are not evil and it doesn't make people who try to not use it "better".

Thank you.  I am too tired to keep going round and round.  Velo - I can't believe you are in your 40's or your 50's - you sound so young (in a good way!!!) online.  Also, been lurking here for years and have always appreciated your financial insights.
 

[MissinNYC]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi 

This is credit.
 

Right, but it's not something you have to qualify for. I could have 0 credit or a horrible credit score and they'd have to let me run a bill. What's the alternative for them?