Body Modifications - Page 3

[Dar]

Heh. I dyed my daughter's hair for her for the first time when she was 7, I think. Somewhere we have a videotape from that time from the tv news of her being interviewed about the unseasonable hot weather, with bright pink hair and a Brownie uniform on....

I think Irish said upthread that she wasn't really against the hairdye... it was more just part of the broader questions of appearance modifications. Rain stopped with the colorful hairdye when she started doing a lot of theatre, because most of the parts she played required normal-colored hair. She has naturally gorgeous dark blonde hair, but she recently dyed it brown, which I do *not* understand... meanwhile, I dye my medium brown hair the dark blonde color it was when I was a teen....

[MovnMama]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I think the dark mark on a forearm sounds like a kid tattoo, and not something an adult would want. It's like having a bumper sticker that says, "come to the dark side, we have cookies" except harder to remove. I can't imagine anyone in labor wanting to look at the dark mark. Has she run this past any one working in midwifery?

As someone with tattoos, I agree with the above. Only to a certain point, however. When she's 45, if she still thinks that Harry Potter and the symbolism that goes with is is valuable and important to her, then hey, she can get the dark mark tattooed on her forehead, even. Whatever.

I think was really needs to be sorted out is... is it the proposed tattoo ("dark mark") or the idea of tattoos in general, that the OP is concerned with? And which is the true priority for the teen?

This is the tack I would take with my own child. I think the dark mark is out of the question for a 17 year old too, but I'm 28 and have lots of ink. Clearly I'm not opposed to tattoos, and I'm not opposed to an 18 yo getting a rite of passage type tat either - but I would advise any young adult against getting a tattoo like the dark mark, because I deeply question whether or not it actually *means* something to the bearer of the tattoo. According to the fictional universe of Harry Potter, it definitely means something. As indicated by followers of this board, it really only indicates that the bearer is *really* into Harry Potter, and maybe wants to seem a little "hard."

This brings in another important discussion point for the OP's kid - *why* she wants the tattoo. To get a tattoo just to have one is different from getting a tattoo that is a symbolic rite of passage, that is patiently designed, that is conceptualized with the help of the tattoo artist and other trusted family and friends, etc. Getting a tattoo just to look cool is something to advise a teen against for the same reasons moms advise not to do all other "doing it to look cool" type things - like "if all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you jump off too?" type deal.

If she really wants to mark her transition into adulthood, with a cooperatively developed design in an appropriately discreet body location, done by a reputable artist - I don't see the problem. If she's going down to Telegraph for a walk-in appointment with a printout of the dark mark on her 18th birthday, that's a different thing altogether, and a problem IMO. The OP is in a wonderful AP position to determine which of these happens. That is, if the kid's mind and heart are set on a tattoo. If they are not, it could be one of many issues that blows in the wind.

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy 

Oh, I just asked her. Her friend dyed her hair blue, so she no longer wants to, She is back to the red I pictured earlier! I think that would be awesome on her, even in a portrait.

LOL kids are funny.

[Arduinna]

As far as tattoo choice at 18, it really depends on ones personal philosophy. I got my first tattoo at 19 or 20, can't remember it was a loonng time ago and I don't regret it. It's not my favorite tattoo either though, I look at it as a reflection of who I was at the time. The only tattoos I sort of regret are actually my last ones I got at about 5-6 years ago. I wanted to mark a rite of passage and choose them but they just don't mean as much to me as I thought they would. My favorite one is actually my 4th tattoo I ever got. What's my point? I'm not sure. I guess that age isn't the primary factor in art satisfaction.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by SilverFish 

look, i get that it's not something you think is a good idea, but i honestly don't think it's your call. body mods (and hair dye does NOT fall into that category... that's along the lines of make-up in my book) are something that truly only hurt the person who does them..... it's just not going to be something that affects her life with any severity in the future.

... i don't agree with all the decisions my parents made, but one thing i really appreciate was that they emphasized caring about my ACTIONS, not my appearance......the resounding message i got from my parents was that they loved me no matter how freaky or ridiculous i looked to them.

Body modifications ARE a parent's call until the teen is 18. Then it's the teens call. That's the magic moment when in our culture one becomes an adult. I, Personally, think it's fine for parents to say "no" about permanent modifications, but I think it's MORE important that parents talk to their teens about *why* or *why not* to get mod, how to decide what mods to get, how to get them safely etc. We can veto them now, but not forever. It's our job to help them learn to make good choice for themselves.

As far as the actions VS appearance, I agree with you but find it a poor reason to get modifications. Obviously, anyone with tattoos and multiple piercing is really, really, really concerned with how they look.  It's all about looks!!!

I'm fine with my teens looking any way they want -- hair style and color, make up, clothes, fingernails, henna tattoos, and even drawing on themselves with sharpies!. I'm not confused about the actions vs. appearances thing at all. But making permanent changes to their bodies is something I think is better left until they are adults.  Hopefully, they'll be better able to make decisions they will be happy with long term that way.

I also feel that body modifications DO make a difference depending on what field of work the person wants to go into. It's why I asked up-thread. In some fields, it doesn't matter. In some fields it does. A lot of teens change their minds about once a month about what they want to do when they grow up.

When getting a body modification, it *might* end up making a difference in someone's life if they got their tattoo where it is covered by business attire, or where it cannot easily be hidden. Or if the opted for a belly piercing VS ear gauging. 

Originally Posted by MovnMama 

but I would advise any young adult against getting a tattoo like the dark mark, because I deeply question whether or not it actually *means* something to the bearer of the tattoo. .....

This brings in another important discussion point for the OP's kid - *why* she wants the tattoo. To get a tattoo just to have one is different from getting a tattoo that is a symbolic rite of passage, that is patiently designed, that is conceptualized with the help of the tattoo artist and other trusted family and friends, etc. Getting a tattoo just to look cool is something to advise a teen against for the same reasons moms advise not to do all other "doing it to look cool" type things

One of the girls in my DDs' school turned 18 last week and got a tattoo on her birthday. It's lovely. She spent years planning it and it is in memory of her father. It's on her shoulder, so she can decide in what context she wants it visable, and in what context she wants it to be private.

[grethel]

Originally Posted by karne 

I have to comment that I love what you have shared here, esp. the piece about actions vs. appearance.  I understand that's not the whole picture here, but I do think this is worth considering when we talk to our kids.  I am no where near having a kid who wants tatooes or piercings yet, as mine is 12, but I do have regular conversations w/my dd about how she is thinking of coloring/streaking her hair-this is probably in our future.  I have to say that I wouldn't have done this at her age (too inhibited), and I'm frankly happy that she's feeling self confident enough to want to express herself in this way.

I occasionally hear of kids doing piercings on their own, and I wonder why.  Just being kids, or lack of feeling like there is open communication?

I was one who got piercings done by friends without my parents' permission. In my case, I felt a deep need for individuation, so I was driven to have it done. I knew my mother would never agree (my mom and I fought a lot over her wishes for how I looked as opposed to my wishes) so I did it on my own at 16. I should mention I was in college and living on my own at the time, but not legally emancipated so to go to a legitimate shop I would have needed her permission. She did hate it, was angry, shamed me over it - but I didn't regret doing it. Only felt bad about her reaction.

For that reason, when my dd wanted a cartilage piercing (top of her ear) for her 13th birthday, I made an appointment at a great, reliable shop, and I took her myself. Rite of passage, and everyone's happy. She has a few other ear piercings. Law here is 16 for piercing other parts of her body, so she'll wait until then for anything else, and 18 for tattoos. I hope that by talking honestly and often about body mods in regards to her health and future plans, she'll make responsible decisions when they're hers to make. If she does get other piercings done by friends before the legal age, I won't be angry and I won't shame her (or tell her I wish she looked "normal," or anything like that - wow do I remember how much that hurt to hear from my mom). I will express my concern about her health, tell her why I think it's not a good idea to pierce certain parts of her body or to do it in a nonprofessional environment. But when it comes down to it, it's her body and all I can do is educate her and try to help her stay safe.

As far as hair dyeing and other nonpermanent mods -- my dd is artistic and adventurous and I recognize that she has a desire to try out different looks. Again, we just talk talk talk about it. Having been there myself, I can talk to her frankly about people's impressions and how they may affect her in ways she doesn't realize yet. I can offer her a lot of cautions. But I understand that this need for individuation is a natural process, and I try not to take it personally. When I remind myself that she is her own person, and not an extension of me, it makes it easier for me to cope with choices she makes that aren't what I wish she might do, or that I find a little embarrassing from a parental perspective.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by SilverFish 

i can't imagine telling a nearly 17 year old she couldn't dye her hair.

As I'm pretty sure I said, I have NO PROBLEM with her dyeing her hair. NONE. I just want to get off my ass and get pictures done before she does something wild with it. She first dyed her hair at 10 or 11, with my help. I have no issue with dyed hair.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

But if she can't be bothered to make a phone call about the one thing on her list that you will allow, how much does she want any of this? When she says things like "I want a tattoo of the dark mark on my forearm" does she really mean it? Or does she just mean that it would be cool/funny/whatever. There's a big difference between thinking a particular tattoo would be cool, and deeply wanting the tattoo.

Well she sounds really set on that tattoo. But you have a point about not making the phone call herself.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by SilverFish 

i can't imagine telling a nearly 17 year old she couldn't dye her hair. i started dying mine all sorts of colours when i was about 13. i can sort of understand not wanting her to get tattooed, but piercings are another thing i can't really imagine telling my older teenage daughter she wasn't "allowed" to do. i was 17 when i got my first tattoo and it is a truly beautiful piece of work. i had a fair number of piercings by then too, and the great thing about piercings is that they can almost always be removed without any issue... hence the only one still remaining is my nose piercing i got in my 20s.

look, i get that it's not something you think is a good idea, but i honestly don't think it's your call. body mods (and hair dye does NOT fall into that category... that's along the lines of make-up in my book) are something that truly only hurt the person who does them. she's not going to be unemployed for life because she has a few tattoos... i'm an elementary teacher and no one has ever said a thing to me about them (nor has it affected my ability to get a job, even in very conservative atmospheres). a lot of people 30 and younger, maybe even the majority, have some kind of minor body mod at this point... it's just not going to be something that affects her life with any severity in the future. as long as she is paying for it herself, going to reputable shops and is aware that her choice of placement, subject matter and size of body mod are in some way permanent, it's all good. maybe she WILL regret her first choice of tattoo, or get bored of her conch piercing, or have someone react negatively to her hair colour. these are learning experiences though, and nothing that is going to seriously ruin her life.

just so you know where i'm coming from: my parents are conservative christian missionaries. when we moved back to north america, i was really drawn to alternative culture and within a couple of years was getting pierced, tattooed etc. i don't agree with all the decisions my parents made, but one thing i really appreciate was that they emphasized caring about my ACTIONS, not my appearance. my mom used to help me dye my hair purple, she said she thought my tattoo was pretty (wasn't thrilled i got it though), she never criticized my choice of piercing, and she never banned me from getting them. i think it's a pretty normal part of teenagerhood to experiment with one's appearance, and the resounding message i got from my parents was that they loved me no matter how freaky or ridiculous i looked to them. the message you're sending to your daughter right now is that you think she will look terrible with blue hair, and you want her to 'look normal' ... basically, that your approval of her is tied to her appearance. 

finally, this will either become a pretty permanent part of her life, or she'll get over it and move on. i haven't gotten a new tattoo in a loooong time, haven't dyed my hair bright colours since university and only have my nose piercing now... i'm pretty clean cut looking now and no one would probably guess how i looked at about 17-18. making it into a battle seems silly and counter productive to me.

I read the rest of your post. I'm not thrilled with certain piercings (tongue mainly) but I have not said no to the others. It's the ear stretching I object to. If she want 10 holes in her ears, as long as they are regular size, then more power to her. I'm really feeling like most people haven't read beyond "almost 17, mom says NO, horrible mom".

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by MovnMama 

As someone with tattoos, I agree with the above. Only to a certain point, however. When she's 45, if she still thinks that Harry Potter and the symbolism that goes with is is valuable and important to her, then hey, she can get the dark mark tattooed on her forehead, even. Whatever.

I think was really needs to be sorted out is... is it the proposed tattoo ("dark mark") or the idea of tattoos in general, that the OP is concerned with? And which is the true priority for the teen?

This is the tack I would take with my own child. I think the dark mark is out of the question for a 17 year old too, but I'm 28 and have lots of ink. Clearly I'm not opposed to tattoos, and I'm not opposed to an 18 yo getting a rite of passage type tat either - but I would advise any young adult against getting a tattoo like the dark mark, because I deeply question whether or not it actually *means* something to the bearer of the tattoo. According to the fictional universe of Harry Potter, it definitely means something. As indicated by followers of this board, it really only indicates that the bearer is *really* into Harry Potter, and maybe wants to seem a little "hard."

This brings in another important discussion point for the OP's kid - *why* she wants the tattoo. To get a tattoo just to have one is different from getting a tattoo that is a symbolic rite of passage, that is patiently designed, that is conceptualized with the help of the tattoo artist and other trusted family and friends, etc. Getting a tattoo just to look cool is something to advise a teen against for the same reasons moms advise not to do all other "doing it to look cool" type things - like "if all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you jump off too?" type deal.

If she really wants to mark her transition into adulthood, with a cooperatively developed design in an appropriately discreet body location, done by a reputable artist - I don't see the problem. If she's going down to Telegraph for a walk-in appointment with a printout of the dark mark on her 18th birthday, that's a different thing altogether, and a problem IMO. The OP is in a wonderful AP position to determine which of these happens. That is, if the kid's mind and heart are set on a tattoo. If they are not, it could be one of many issues that blows in the wind.

Thank you.

[AdinaL]

Hair dye seems to be a non-issue for you. I think that red would look great on her. :)

As for piercings, well, I would say that it really behooves her to find out what all can go wrong before doing anything.

I had a tongue ring for years, and have dental damage from it.  I had a friend who got her eyebrow pierced and the guy hit a big enough blood vessel that her eye swelled shut and she had to take it out.  Additionally, those are frequently not permanent (as most surface type piercings like that aren't) and the body begins to push them out. Bellybuttons can do the same thing.  So you have to think about that as well if you get those, and suddenly find that your piercing is much shallower or in a different place.

As for gauging, I have my ears stretched.  I am currently at a 4g. According to my piercer (who is the DH of an MDC mom and has been doing it a *VERY* long time) you can get to a 2g before you start having issues with it not shrinking back down.  There are also factors of how fast you stretched, and scar tissue involved that can factor in.  At 4g, if I wear plugs, they just look like earrings.  Honestly you cant tell unless I have in my fancy earrings that clearly are larger, or eyelets where you can see through the hole. I love mine, partially because he repierced them and they are no even for the first time ever, and because I like the more solid earrings I get to wear.

And I love my tattoos. :)

All that being said - none of this will happen until kiddo is 18 (well the initial ears I might let her do earlier, but we'll see, and that's only because I know a good, reputable piercer who will do kids) 

I'm with you on hair dye, I don't care what color she wants her hair, but everything else will wait - and I am a fairly modified person who is looking to get more tattoos very soon.  I didn't get any until I was 21 though, and even my ears didn't get pierced until i was 12. Everything else has happened well after adulthood. (heck stretching my ears didn't happen until about 2 years ago!)

[AdinaL]

Additionally, I have had several tattoo artists tell me it is a good idea to sit on a tattoo idea for a year before getting it.  I have done that with pretty much all of mine, and it has been a good idea.  I had some ideas that I looked at a year later and was glad I didn't get.

:)

[Kaydove]

One thing that's not neccessarily relevant to the situation but I want to point out about underage piercing - my DH was the first body piecer in Seattle and had a very successful business (now works at Microsoft, lol). He allowed underage piercing with a parent signature, until a parent threaten to sue him because the father allowed his daughter to get pierced and the mom was upset. From that point on, no more underage piercing! Even if they had both parents present. This is from a professional perspective. Nowadays, not all piercers allow underage piercing. My mom took me to get my nose pierced at 17, which 9 years later I still wear and love.

[WCM]

I know this thread is about the bigger picture, and I'm in agreement with all of you saying it's her choice, but feel free to have many discussions with her about her choices, etc. I too dislike my first/earliest tattoo, but it's part of my path so I accept it. At least it's not a cartoon character. :)

I'm posting because I've gotta' chime in on the stretched lobes thing. I was an apprentice piercer, and had it all done, every piercing we offered I had. And I stretched my lobes, nothing outrageous (this is 15 years ago) but to a 00. Now I'm a late-30's mama (who's removed all those piercings thanks) who cannot wear any earrings cause my ear holes are too big. I stopped wearing stretch-plugs 10 years ago, but no difference. Studs will just fall through and hook earrings fall out over the course of the day. I looked into surgically fixing it, it bugged me that much. For $500 they need to cut out the stretched hole, to make a wound, so it can heal back together. It'd have a bump on the bottom of the lobe because of the squished skin. Then they'd re-pierce after it all healed. I'd lose size in my already small lobes and have a wonky fold in the bottom. Awesome. So I've learned to live with my big holes that hold nothing but the plugs I no longer want to wear. Sigh.

I will be supporting my kids in their experiences modifying their looks, but will strongly, strongly try to talk them out of lobe stretching. No matter how fast or slow, or big you go, they stay stretched baby. And not all of us stay in that piercer-scene for life, thinking big lobes are the coolest. 

[Tigeresse]

My ds brought up tats and piercings/gauges a few times to which we responded we would not sign for, and after 18, he would have to finance on his own. We explained our reasoning, emphasizing the permanency of such decisions. We firmly believe these types of things need to gone into with eyes wide open. 18 has come and gone and no modifications yet.....

OTOH...hair is fine. He had a bleached blond streak when he was about 12.

[AdinaL]

Originally Posted by WCM 

I know this thread is about the bigger picture, and I'm in agreement with all of you saying it's her choice, but feel free to have many discussions with her about her choices, etc. I too dislike my first/earliest tattoo, but it's part of my path so I accept it. At least it's not a cartoon character. :)

I'm posting because I've gotta' chime in on the stretched lobes thing. I was an apprentice piercer, and had it all done, every piercing we offered I had. And I stretched my lobes, nothing outrageous (this is 15 years ago) but to a 00. Now I'm a late-30's mama (who's removed all those piercings thanks) who cannot wear any earrings cause my ear holes are too big. I stopped wearing stretch-plugs 10 years ago, but no difference. Studs will just fall through and hook earrings fall out over the course of the day. I looked into surgically fixing it, it bugged me that much. For $500 they need to cut out the stretched hole, to make a wound, so it can heal back together. It'd have a bump on the bottom of the lobe because of the squished skin. Then they'd re-pierce after it all healed. I'd lose size in my already small lobes and have a wonky fold in the bottom. Awesome. So I've learned to live with my big holes that hold nothing but the plugs I no longer want to wear. Sigh.

I will be supporting my kids in their experiences modifying their looks, but will strongly, strongly try to talk them out of lobe stretching. No matter how fast or slow, or big you go, they stay stretched baby. And not all of us stay in that piercer-scene for life, thinking big lobes are the coolest. 

This is really interesting to me.  Mine - which are a bunch smaller than 00 for sure, will start to shrink down if I even sleep without something in them. I can see that if I left them I could get them back down in pretty short order.  Not to a 20g necessarily, but easily back to a 12 or 14. What gauge would you say yours are at now?

[kawa kamuri]

Originally Posted by WCM 

I know this thread is about the bigger picture, and I'm in agreement with all of you saying it's her choice, but feel free to have many discussions with her about her choices, etc. I too dislike my first/earliest tattoo, but it's part of my path so I accept it. At least it's not a cartoon character. :)

I'm posting because I've gotta' chime in on the stretched lobes thing. I was an apprentice piercer, and had it all done, every piercing we offered I had. And I stretched my lobes, nothing outrageous (this is 15 years ago) but to a 00. Now I'm a late-30's mama (who's removed all those piercings thanks) who cannot wear any earrings cause my ear holes are too big. I stopped wearing stretch-plugs 10 years ago, but no difference. Studs will just fall through and hook earrings fall out over the course of the day. I looked into surgically fixing it, it bugged me that much. For $500 they need to cut out the stretched hole, to make a wound, so it can heal back together. It'd have a bump on the bottom of the lobe because of the squished skin. Then they'd re-pierce after it all healed. I'd lose size in my already small lobes and have a wonky fold in the bottom. Awesome. So I've learned to live with my big holes that hold nothing but the plugs I no longer want to wear. Sigh.

I will be supporting my kids in their experiences modifying their looks, but will strongly, strongly try to talk them out of lobe stretching. No matter how fast or slow, or big you go, they stay stretched baby. And not all of us stay in that piercer-scene for life, thinking big lobes are the coolest. 

Word to this. I'll be 36 this year, have stretched lobes from way back, currently 3/4" and if I should tire of this look, find the $ for cosmetic surgery they will still never be the same as they were before I modified them BUT with full understanding that it was a permanent choice. No one ever told me fairy tales about temporarily permanent body modifications - that's not real life. Same goes for many I know who stretched much less, slowly and inside of the "safe" range. Our bodies are different and ear lobes are not an exception.  

I also have tattoos from my late teen days that are not what I'd choose now, are not of the quality I'd accept. I love them anyhow but at least I could, if my grown child asked, offer some guidance. My first piece of advice for my own would be - all of this is as forever as your body lasts.

My oldest child is 16. If he wanted blue hair I'm fine with that so long as it doesn't interfere with employment or other activities. He did have his ear pierced but it fell out and he lost interest. It's not shocking to me that my kids are conservative next to me and I kind of wonder if they view body modifications as the stuff of old mom people, not rebellious in the least - I was surgically modified before my oldest kids can remember, their view of individuality is different. Anyway, I think it's important to respect and encourage autonomy but within the framework of being educated about the procedures.  

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Kaydove 

He allowed underage piercing with a parent signature, until a parent threaten to sue him because the father allowed his daughter to get pierced and the mom was upset. From that point on, no more underage piercing!

Interesting!

My fun fact, that isn't completely relevant, is that in the city I live body piercing is so common and so many middle aged adults have them from YEARS ago, that ignored ones have become an issue in medical care. You have to remove nipple rings for a mammogram, but some woman have rings that haven't taken out in years and are a bit of an issue to remove. For surgery, ALL jewelry must be removed -- and people show up for surgery with belly rings and such that they haven't taken out in years and have grown in. And, if a person has a heart event and requires an AED, depending on where the piercing is, it can smoke and burn.

I don't have any tattoos or interesting piercings (only boring ones) but so many of my friends and peers do, and so many of my kids' parents have them, that I don't think my kids and their friends they will ever see body mods as an act of rebellion, a sign that they are part of the counter culture. Hopefully, that will help them make good choices about any body modifications, and do things they will really like, rather than just doing something to prove a point or make a statement.

[TiredX2]

Personally, I think because you are accepting of a lot of options (specific piercings, hair coloring) you have a little bit more credibility when you say, "Please don't do ____ because ____."

My oldest niece is 9 years younger than me and I watched her go round and round on this issue with her parents.  She had several piercings  that I thought were cool (and told her) and she was always doing something different with her hair.  Many people freaked and her mom was always complaining.

Then she wanted a tattoo (this started around 16).  Her mom saying, "no, no, no" didn't get anywhere--- she had said the same thing over and over before.  But when I said it was a really bad idea to get one that young, that her body was still changing, that if she waited until she was 20 I would pay for the first hour, lol, she took it a little more seriously.  I could show her my tattoo and say, "I'm not against tattoos, I just don't want you to make a permanent mistake."  And she didn't get a tattoo.  She still doesn't have one (that I know of, I know she didn't have one at 20) and now she is 26.  I also talked to her about my concerns about eyebrow rings (movement/rejection) and tounge rings (teeth problems) but that didn't stop her. 

For my own children, I hope they don't do anything too permanent before they are adults.  I've talked and talked to them, though, about how tattoos & piercings are MEDICAL decisions and you don't just let your friend with a potato and a needle perform minor surgery on you!  If they are going to get something pierced, I want it to be clean & safe.  If that means they get something pierced I don't want them to, but I end up driving them to get it done, so be it.  DD got her ears pierced at 9, DS doesn't have anything pierced yet.

DP used to tell kids about his horrible piercing times (he loves them, but he is very infection prone--- he had a nasty transverse lobe issue going on for years) and tattoos--- we have actually seen kids begging their parents, "Do I have to get that done ever?!?!  Please don't make me."  I think he should charge them.  Since DP has, until January, had long dreads and DS has rotated between long hair, shorter hair and a mohawk, I'm pretty sure our kids understand we just don't care about their hair *too* much (it must be clean, that I do care about--- dreads cannot come about by just being gross).

[journeymom]

Irish, as an unrepentant adult HP fanatic I love the idea of your dd's tattoo choice.  However I think the below remark summarizes the reality of a Dark Mark tattoo perfectly.

Quote:

I think the dark mark on a forearm sounds like a kid tattoo, and not something an adult would want. It's like having a bumper sticker that says, "come to the dark side, we have cookies" except harder to remove. I can't imagine anyone in labor wanting to look at the dark mark. Has she run this past any one working in midwifery?