? about ADD possibly ADHD

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

My middle son has a learning disability. Basically he's gifted, with a learning disability that shows itself with in his inability put his ideas on paper. He has great ideas and is incredibly brite. But this year, we are seeing a lot of attention issues. They are testing him for attention issues, but I'm wondering if it's more of an escape from things that are difficult for him. The results are not in yet, but I'm wondering if it really matters if the modifications are put in place that he needs? What do you think?

[karne]

We have had these exact issues--my son could be a copy of yours.  I think it's entirely possible to have a combination of the factors you've mentioned, ie attention issues, avoidance issues, defensive behaviors (checking out when a task feels to difficult to complete, such as writing).  We've seen it all.  And having a very high level of academic achievement can mask some of these issues for a while, but not forever.  We are treating the ADD now, and are seeing substantial progress.  I'd be happy to PM you if you want more info.

[melissa17s]

My ds has problems writing.  He has an accommodation that allows him to dictate for longer writing assignments and tests, and it has changed the results of his school work because before they got nothing from him.  When he was originally assessed by the school, they were amazed at his vocabulary and ability to verbally answer questions, and it really highlighted the discrepancy with writing.  

He is going to OT and doing the righting without tears program. It helps to find an alternative method to encourage writing, such as having the student type it or write it in sand with finger, and then it is also supposed to help develop handwriting skills as well.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

Originally Posted by melissa17s 

My ds has problems writing.  He has an accommodation that allows him to dictate for longer writing assignments and tests, and it has changed the results of his school work because before they got nothing from him.  When he was originally assessed by the school, they were amazed at his vocabulary and ability to verbally answer questions, and it really highlighted the discrepancy with writing.  

He is going to OT and doing the righting without tears program. It helps to find an alternative method to encourage writing, such as having the student type it or write it in sand with finger, and then it is also supposed to help develop handwriting skills as well.

Ds2 has some of the same accommodations. He was evaluated at the end of second grade, but they didnt' do any evaluations regarding attention, because he wasn't showing signs of attention issues back then (he's in 4th grade now). He isn't in OT, because when they did the testing, it's not actually the physical side of writing that is hard for him. He also has a really hard time with spelling. He's getting special help for that as well. I guess it has something to do with executive processing. In some ways things are a llot better than they had been, but in other ways they are worse. I think it has to do with the fact that the works is getting harder. It's never easy, is it?

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

Originally Posted by karne 

We have had these exact issues--my son could be a copy of yours.  I think it's entirely possible to have a combination of the factors you've mentioned, ie attention issues, avoidance issues, defensive behaviors (checking out when a task feels to difficult to complete, such as writing).  We've seen it all.  And having a very high level of academic achievement can mask some of these issues for a while, but not forever.  We are treating the ADD now, and are seeing substantial progress.  I'd be happy to PM you if you want more info.

Yes, we weren't aware of the issues in the beginning. I think for 3 reasons. The first being that he is very brite and so he was able to compensate in the lower grades. Also, ds1 is on the autsim spectrum, and his issues are much more pronounced. I hate to say it, but I think that so much of our concentration was on ds1, that we missed some the signs that ds2 was struggling. Then there is the fact, that ds2 doesn't like to talk about issues he is having and is more likely to try to hide them than ask for help. In second grade, things got to the point that he could not longer compensate for things and they were bad enough to tell us about it.

He can sit and read for hours. He can remember anything he's read. He can take long nature walks with me without getting bored. He can concentrate and sit still for math. It's only on writing assignments that he seems to spacy or fidgety. So I'm guess I'm confused as to whether it is really attention or avoidance.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by QueenOfTheMeadow 

Originally Posted by karne 

He can sit and read for hours. He can remember anything he's read. He can take long nature walks with me without getting bored. He can concentrate and sit still for math. It's only on writing assignments that he seems to spacy or fidgety. So I'm guess I'm confused as to whether it is really attention or avoidance.

I would attempt to remediate the writing and see if the attention improves (esp since he did not have a history of attentional difficulties).

So ideas to try are:

AlphaSmart keyboard- he can type his answers

Voice to Text program: much less expensive than before and is GREAT for home use and/or computer lab assignments at school

dictate for testing on non-writing skills: help make sure his work reflects his other abilties and not his writing skills.

have a system for breaking down writing: use visual cues, a color blocker (cover  up portions of lengthy writing so he only sees small bits at a time- less overwhelming)

set a timer: that is how long he writes for (gradually lengthen it) and them moves on to something else or have someone dictate. Less overwhelming & builds confidence

HTH: avoidance is common with areas that kids struggle with/and I dont blame them (adults do the same thing!!), giving him some control will help as will some other ways to accommodate him.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

Originally Posted by KCMichigan 

I would attempt to remediate the writing and see if the attention improves (esp since he did not have a history of attentional difficulties).

So ideas to try are:

AlphaSmart keyboard- he can type his answers

Voice to Text program: much less expensive than before and is GREAT for home use and/or computer lab assignments at school

dictate for testing on non-writing skills: help make sure his work reflects his other abilties and not his writing skills.

have a system for breaking down writing: use visual cues, a color blocker (cover  up portions of lengthy writing so he only sees small bits at a time- less overwhelming)

set a timer: that is how long he writes for (gradually lengthen it) and them moves on to something else or have someone dictate. Less overwhelming & builds confidence

HTH: avoidance is common with areas that kids struggle with/and I dont blame them (adults do the same thing!!), giving him some control will help as will some other ways to accommodate him.

This is awesome! We're doing many of the things you mentioned, but not the voice to text program. I'm going to look into that for home use. They are working with him on typing and we have a program at home as well. At this point, that doesn't seem to be helping him very much, because it doesn't seem to be a problem with the actual physicality of writing, but it certainly can't hurt. Heck, I wish I had taken a typing class earlier than highschool! And it may be that the act of typing, instead of writing, will stimulate a different part of his brain than actually writing!

I think part of the problem too, is that he doesn't like to ask for help or need help. He doesn't want to have the teachers dictate his writing asignments, so he often does them himself, and they they are impossible to read. I told him that they are offering him a teacher to dictate his writing state performance tests, and that I wanted him to use it.

[KCMichigan]

Here is an AlphaSmart:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00007FV2Z/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=48273227&ref=pd_sl_12afal4vxt_b

It is FABULOUS for kids to type in-class. It has a spellchecker, is cord free, and you can set it up to print to the inclass (or home) printer. No games, no distractions either.  I worked with kids that used this and it was great for a personalized, independent solution for kids that struggled w/ dysgraphia. 

With practice (yes lots of it) most people can type faster than they can write. Especially kids grade 3+- they pick it up fast if there are no physical reasons to slow them down (hand problems, etc).

Here is the software we used (Dragon). At school we used it with a headphone/microphone combo. Good Stuff.

http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-NaturallySpeaking-Home-Version-11/dp/B003VNCRNQ/ref=pd_sim_e_1

Here is a good program we have used in the past grades 3-5 for practice writing at home (also helps keyboarding skills). It is fun and let the kids practice writing skills while in an entertaining way. It helps kids build story/writing/idea writing skills. Also has spell checker!!

http://www.amazon.com/Storybook-Weaver-Deluxe-Pc/dp/B0005MYI4W/ref=pd_cp_sw_0

I also would suggest the use of a scribe for state testing, I actually scribed for my students and it worked out well. 

It can be so frustrating for kids that have good ideas, but trouble getting it all down on paper. As the get older- the written expectations increase, tough stuff! Hugs to you and your son.

[karne]

In our situation, the block on writing was really about sustained attention and organization of thought.  It had nothing to do with lack of ideas, facility with language, comprehension, or the actual ability to write.  This was really frustrating for a while because essentially none of the "modifications" actually made any difference-they couldn't get at the root of the problem.  And, because ds is very, very verbal, bright, etc., the assumption was there that if he "tried hard enough", or "focused" he would soar.  It was a classic ADD experience, and it was placing his self esteem in a very fragile place.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

Originally Posted by karne 

In our situation, the block on writing was really about sustained attention and organization of thought.  It had nothing to do with lack of ideas, facility with language, comprehension, or the actual ability to write.  This was really frustrating for a while because essentially none of the "modifications" actually made any difference-they couldn't get at the root of the problem.  And, because ds is very, very verbal, bright, etc., the assumption was there that if he "tried hard enough", or "focused" he would soar.  It was a classic ADD experience, and it was placing his self esteem in a very fragile place.

Yes, ds2 is very sensitive and the struggle was really trying for him. He felt stupid. Thankfully his teachers were on board iwth the fact that working harder was not going to help.

[karne]

Originally Posted by QueenOfTheMeadow 

Originally Posted by karne 

In our situation, the block on writing was really about sustained attention and organization of thought.  It had nothing to do with lack of ideas, facility with language, comprehension, or the actual ability to write.  This was really frustrating for a while because essentially none of the "modifications" actually made any difference-they couldn't get at the root of the problem.  And, because ds is very, very verbal, bright, etc., the assumption was there that if he "tried hard enough", or "focused" he would soar.  It was a classic ADD experience, and it was placing his self esteem in a very fragile place.

Yes, ds2 is very sensitive and the struggle was really trying for him. He felt stupid. Thankfully his teachers were on board iwth the fact that working harder was not going to help.

My son has had wonderful, caring, teachers.  Especially this year, his teacher has had an amazing capacity for being creative, working with OT, working with us, working with ds.  It was just incredibly frustrating because all of the OT tricks, all of the creative accommodations....none of it helped in any sustained way.  Even I had moments of feeling like "How can such a bright child be struggling this way?".  The self esteem piece came in because my ds is very self aware.  Because academics have never been an issue for him, he was really aware of the difficulty he had in organizing and communicating his thoughts on paper.  And, he was in an advanced track, where the expectations gradually increase throughout the year, so this was a daily struggle.  It was more than just asynchronous development, as we thought in the beginning.  

I posted a while back in the gifted forum (over a year ago) about my ds' issues with journal writing, and writing in particular.  I had lots of really interesting responses, some specifically around the issues of gifted boys and writing.  I don't know if that sort of information would be of interest, but if so, you might check that forum.  In terms of whether modifications etc., are worthwhile, I would say whatever works for your ds is worthwhile.  

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

That's a great idea! I'll wander over that way!