Was told today that disposables are more environmentally friendly than cloth - Page 2

[Carma]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 

My cloth diapers are on their third family. (DD, a friend's DD, and now a cousin's DS), so right there, I'm thinking that we have saved a *lot* of waste.  

Actually, the place I used to work for here in Oregon (cloth diaper brick & mortar) actually went through and figured it out.  She did a pretty good analysis: http://babyworks.com/cloth-diapers-and-the-environment  SHe's owned this store for 19 or so years now, so, she's been around for a while in the cloth diapering world.

That's an interesting article :) I like "It makes no sense that it is better to wash and reuse all products except diapers". It just doesn't make sense.

It should actually be very comparable to paper plates, disposable forks, etc. versus dishwasher. That's at least one load a day. Doesn't everyone agree that it is better not to use disposable plates etc?

I see we have much less garbage now that we use cloth. I also like that I supported a WAHM who made the diapers for me. My  money did not get wasted on Pampers advertisements for example. I have a new HE frontloader and airdry in the summer, airdrying only the covers in the winter.

My cloth mamapads (also from a WAHM) I wash with regular laundry, after I soaked them in a little cold water, so I know for sure that is better than disposables. I do wash the diapers on hot, that's what I could improve.

Carma

Edited by Carma - 3/21/11 at 2:00pm

[isabchi]

Well, I spend maybe $150 for some prefolds and covers, more than 5 years ago, after that I recieved used diapers form my friend that she used with her two kiddos so, 1/2 of my stash we were the thirth users. My DD used for less that a year , because we did EC. After that I give away more than 1/2 of my stash because we planned EC with our second, that used diaper just for one year and we pass on to another child, so. Some of the diapers we used is been used now for at least 3 or babies. I have a all washer and dryer, that  we used a lot the first year, but we barely used laundry soap for diapers, plus, there was not packing, shipping, store space, marketing, nasty quimicals in the diapers, my babies bodies and later on the landfill, put no plastic stuff and all the quimical process to make a disposables.

[WriterMom2be]

"It makes no sense that it is better to wash and reuse all products except diapers". That's what I can't get around, how it would make sense to throw something away rather than reuse it. If the same people also said it's better to throw away bags upon bags of paper plates, cups, utensils, pizza boxes, fast food wrappers, and plastic food containers etc rather than buy pots, pans, and a dish set, cook from scratch and use a dishwasher, then I would understand.

[abm79]

I've always wondered this.  We actually use a diaper service hoping that the fact that they do mass cleanings helps the environmental impact of cloth (larger loads so even though they use heat and the dryer, it's usually much more energy efficient - or so I've been told), but either way, I just struggle with the landfill.  Plus, it's helped my daughter's bum immensely :) 

Now, when we do use disposables (travel, etc) we use Broody Chick which is 100% biodegradable so I feel better about it.  More expensive than the run of the mill kind, but I feel it's obviously better for the environment.  Now why we can't have affordable, environmentally friendly disposables is beyond me!

[LaughingHyena]

actually it is possible, there was a british government study done a couple of years back ( i had the file saved on my computer, but of course can't find it now) that compared different kinds of cloth diapers to disposable and found there wasn't as great a difference as some people might assume

The UK study was done shortly after my daughter was born, so I read in detail at the time. I know there has been an update since.

ahh found a link for the update I haven';t read the update.

I remember in the original while they got lots of cloth nappy users answering they used such a variety of systems that most had to be excluded from the study. For a lot of questions this meant they only has 3 or 4 people answering. Leading to (among other things) the belief that nearly 50% of cloth nappy users iron their nappies.

They also assumed that in both cases any solid waste would go to landfill, as the study assumed most cloth nappy users used paper liners which they then put in the bin. So they disregarded any issues of feacel matter in landfill as being the same for both systems.

I seem to remember that while the initial results were the same for both systems there was a lot which could be done with cloth that would make it much better. Eg line drying, not ironing (:lol I can do that, no problem) reusing nappies for more than one child etc.

I can not personally believe that my terry flats and motherease covers which are now doing service for thier 4th or 5th child are no better for the environment than cloth.

[SilverFish]

that was the study i was talking about. they did say their sample size was very small. i think the main thing to take away from that study and in general is that we can't just pop our babies in cloth, and say, tahdah! i'm doing something good for the environment! you only have to read a few threads on here and on other forums that some people are going overboard in their diaper purchases, buying lots and lots of brand new diapers than they're shipping from all over, switching diaper styles between kids, etc. not everyone, obviously, before i get a bunch of people jumping down my throat, but plenty. and you only have to read a few more threads to see that washing methods vary wildly, and there are plenty of people doing multiple hot washes, tumble drying, etc. there are lots of people saying they don't line dry (or if they do, they iron them to soften them), or that they have to use bleach, or that they hate their HE machines. there are certainly enough people out there that aren't doing the most efficient washing method possible (for a variety of reasons).

my friend is an environmental officer. basically, she's in charge of going to different businesses and checking that they are following the environmental guidelines of her province when operating. one thing she says is that the smaller the business, the less likely they are to follow regulations, because there is less oversight (basically, something like a dozen environmental officers for a few dozen massive factories, and a bazillion mom and pop drycleaners, laundromats, etc). that goes even more for individuals... there is very little oversight into what kinds of energy/resource consumers we put into our house and how we use them. and in North America, the full cost of the resources we use at home are often not fully accounted for... by that, i mean, we are not paying the real price of a gallon of water we use in our house.

anyway, i'm sure there are lots of people genuinely making cloth work for them by using the same diapers on 3 sets of kids, only washing on cold and faithfully line drying. i personally need to do way better in my energy consumption, and i don't think it helps our case if we aren't open to a discussion about it.

[ocelotmom]

Originally Posted by Inkedstar 

I admit the cloth diapering lured me in based on a combination of saving money and environmental impact. My DH was onboard because he feels waste belongs in the sewer system where it will eventually be treated (he works as a wastewater operator). I too know NO ONE who actually follows the instructions on the sposies to "knock the poo into the toilet". What he DOES find is that people still flush diapers/tampons/pads which can cause huge problems for sewer systems.

We actually had an environmental impact evaluation come out (something our city offered for free) and this included a thorough inspection of how much energy we use/"carbon" footprint and water usage. The inspector was impressed with the small amount of energy we were using (especially when compared with our community) but gave us tips on how to improve even more. She applauded our use of cloth diapers.

I personally know we spent alot more on this next LO's diapers (i splurged on alot of AIO's, fitted's, etc which will take longer to dry) but will also be reusing the diapers from our elder DD's. This has to factor into environmental impact since sposies absolutely cannot be reused. Keeping the chemicals off my sensitive DD's is important as well. I also love them not smelling like "generic" babies. They can smell sweet on their own (without knocking you out with that pampers smell).

I put the poo from disposables in the toilet... sometimes. Not breastfed baby poop, or if it's really stuck on there. But if it's formed and you change the kid as soon as they go so it isn't all smashed everywhere, why in the world would you want it stinking up the trash when you can easily and non-messily throw it in the toilet?

And I'm totally knocking the Pampers smell. I refuse to buy Pampers because of it. I return them to the store when people give it to me. Can't stand that!

Anyways, I'm in the boat who can't see how it could possibly be more environmentally friendly to go through the manufacturing and shipping process (considering all associated material, water, and energy usage and waste creation) for thousands of diapers per child than to do a few extra loads of wash per week, even with a less than perfectly environmentally responsible wash routine. All our cloth diapers (except for one cover, and we may be obtaining a few more soon if I can't find my old larger ones) are on at least their second kid or were made out of recycled materials. We don't have a dryer, so we line-dry by default (we have an indoor clothesline in the workshop for bad weather). I certainly never iron them!

I have heard that in areas where water scarcity is a major issue, disposable diapers are a better option. And I can see that.

Edited by ocelotmom - 3/22/11 at 7:58am

[corrabelle]

I actually don't care. Well...i shouldn't see that I don't care, but for me it isn't a deciding factor. My first two were horribly allergic to disposable, and we ended up doing EC just to avoid it. Cloth was out of the question as I didn't have a washer, and there was no diaper service in our area.

We did cloth at night, and I washed them by hand.

I really don't know if one is worse than the other...but one is dang cheaper, and better for my kid's butt...so we're going with cloth for this next one. If i'm feeling really guilty, i'll dry them on the line rather than the drier :p

[Hannah32]

Originally Posted by SilverFish 

that was the study i was talking about. they did say their sample size was very small. i think the main thing to take away from that study and in general is that we can't just pop our babies in cloth, and say, tahdah! i'm doing something good for the environment! you only have to read a few threads on here and on other forums that some people are going overboard in their diaper purchases, buying lots and lots of brand new diapers than they're shipping from all over, switching diaper styles between kids, etc. not everyone, obviously, before i get a bunch of people jumping down my throat, but plenty. and you only have to read a few more threads to see that washing methods vary wildly, and there are plenty of people doing multiple hot washes, tumble drying, etc. there are lots of people saying they don't line dry (or if they do, they iron them to soften them), or that they have to use bleach, or that they hate their HE machines. there are certainly enough people out there that aren't doing the most efficient washing method possible (for a variety of reasons).

my friend is an environmental officer. basically, she's in charge of going to different businesses and checking that they are following the environmental guidelines of her province when operating. one thing she says is that the smaller the business, the less likely they are to follow regulations, because there is less oversight (basically, something like a dozen environmental officers for a few dozen massive factories, and a bazillion mom and pop drycleaners, laundromats, etc). that goes even more for individuals... there is very little oversight into what kinds of energy/resource consumers we put into our house and how we use them. and in North America, the full cost of the resources we use at home are often not fully accounted for... by that, i mean, we are not paying the real price of a gallon of water we use in our house.

anyway, i'm sure there are lots of people genuinely making cloth work for them by using the same diapers on 3 sets of kids, only washing on cold and faithfully line drying. i personally need to do way better in my energy consumption, and i don't think it helps our case if we aren't open to a discussion about it.

I agree. And I admit, we do a pretty lengthy hot wash around here. Plus, we're in New England and I couldn't get my prefolds dry outside even in July the few times I tried. So there's the dryer usage too. 

The point about the manufacturing of disposables is fair, though the Slate article posted earlier did say that was taken into account. 

On another note, yeah, Pampers do stink! We use sposies on occasion (like a bad rash) and we have two packs that I was given while preggo in Size 3. They do have a very noticeable odor. If we're going sposie, I prefer Huggies. 
 

[janinemh]

Originally Posted by mamadiamond 

your friend is totally discounting the fact that a disposable diaper will sit in a landfill for a 100+ years, but a cloth one will biodegrate far sooner. also, a baby will use thousands of disposables that will end in a landfill, but only 15-40 cloth diapers that may be re-used on subsequent children. for me, that is the bigger issue than the tiny differences in water usage. it is a matter of how many hundreds of square feet of the earth do i want to fill with waste? just because you "dispose of" a disposable, doesn't mean it really goes away.

This is totally what I was  thinking.  Imagine all those little perfectly preserved packages of poo that our culture is entombing for future generations!
 

[Viola]

Originally Posted by TiredX2 You are supposed to get the poop off a disposable before putting it in the trash (down the toilet) just like a cloth diaper.  It is not okay to have all that human waste sitting in a landfill.  That said, I have never known even ONE person IRL who even once put the poo from a disposable down the toilet.  Not one.  

I did put the poop down the toilet, if I could just shake it off or pry it off.  When I asked for suggestions for getting poop off of the cloth diapers, I was just usually just told it should shake off, but often that didn't work, and it took a lot of water to get it off, and much swishing and banging.  For whatever reason, many people don't seem to have this problem with poop. I wouldn't rinse a disposable diaper in water in the same way,  though, so I did just throw it away with whatever poop I couldn't get off, unless I had happened to use a liner of some sort.  

I'm honestly not sure what the environmental impact is of putting human waste in a landfill, but my understanding is that things don't biodegrade nearly was well as you would think, even simple things like grass clippings and paper were found not to have degraded in some of the modern landfills because of the way they may be constructed.  So probably a good argument for not using disposables.