Children's Hospital tried to give DD a bottle. :( ** Update post #11 ** - Page 2

[AFWife]

Originally Posted by khaoskat 

Not sure why they did the GA.  My now 10 month old has had the procedure done twice.  The first time was done in our Ped's office at 2 weeks of age.  The next a week later at a more reputable person in town for doing them right.  The second one was a much deeper cut than the first.  Neither time did we have to have GA or any sort of Anasthetic.

We also nursed immediately afterwards and in the office for the dentist as he wanted to ensure it was done right.

My midwife clipped DS's at 8 weeks....just a quick clip and done. It was really obvious where it needed clipping...we nursed afterwards and there was ZERO blood. No GA here either....

[KateDavies45]

I would be livid if any doctor/nurse/medical person had given my child ANYTHING without first getting my consent. Even without all the other valid issues brought up (nipple confusing/virgin gut/bm being a clear liquid) that alone would have pushed me over the line.

[mamatoElias]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Honestly, it doesn't sound like that big of a deal to me.  Sorry you're upset, but she latched and was happy to nurse, so I wouldn't worry about it (if it had been formula, I would have been mad - but it wasn't).

I agree with this also.  However, if you would like to advocate for some changes to be made as far as considering breastmilk to be a clear liquid, that sounds like a great cause.  It sounds like you received great care and your nurse didn't push artificial nipples or glucose water when you declined it.  Even if your baby had gotten a sip before you were able to intervene, I think don't think she would've been any worse for the wear.  I would be upset about formula, but glucose and water are naturally in her body and one suck of a bottle nipple would be highly unlikely to cause breastfeeding problems.  

As a nurse, I think I'd be scared to have some of you ladies as patients!  I'm surprised some of you seem so eager to create an uproar and insult your care providers.  I think gentle, polite education goes a long way.  I frequently learn new things from my patients.  I don't know everything (and I never will!).  I do my best to respectfully care for my patients, but I also have the right to be treated with respect.  When advocating for your children, I would encourage everyone to remember your manners.  

ETA:  The original poster did not indicate that she was rude or in anyway inappropriate, so my comment was not directed towards her.  I am just responding to some of the other posts on this thread which seemed quite harsh to me.  I don't normally hang out in the lactivism forum so maybe that is just the tone around here?

[smeep]

Originally Posted by mamatoElias 

I agree with this also.  However, if you would like to advocate for some changes to be made as far as considering breastmilk to be a clear liquid, that sounds like a great cause.  It sounds like you received great care and your nurse didn't push artificial nipples or glucose water when you declined it.  Even if your baby had gotten a sip before you were able to intervene, I think don't think she would've been any worse for the wear.  I would be upset about formula, but glucose and water are naturally in her body and one suck of a bottle nipple would be highly unlikely to cause breastfeeding problems.  

As a nurse, I think I'd be scared to have some of you ladies as patients!  I'm surprised some of you seem so eager to create an uproar and insult your care providers.  I think gentle, polite education goes a long way.  I frequently learn new things from my patients.  I don't know everything (and I never will!).  I do my best to respectfully care for my patients, but I also have the right to be treated with respect.  When advocating for your children, I would encourage everyone to remember your manners.  

ETA:  The original poster did not indicate that she was rude or in anyway inappropriate, so my comment was not directed towards her.  I am just responding to some of the other posts on this thread which seemed quite harsh to me.  I don't normally hang out in the lactivism forum so maybe that is just the tone around here?

It was a big deal for me. I'm glad it didn't happen when I wasn't there and wasn't pushed when I said no, but it still needs to be fixed. Since I wasn't asked, I'm relatively certain that had I not been there it would have been given anyway. A single bottle could impact many things, including her latch and flow preference as she shows signs of being susceptible to it.It can also mask any early warning signs of potential problems. Beyond all that, it's the simple fact that it somehow shows that breastfeeding is inferior and it's just wrong on so many levels.

But they did treat us wonderfully and I'm so thankful for that. I just think it's very important that they update their protocols to fit with the evidence. Even if the nurse had been rude or forceful, I still wouldn't hold any ill toward those who were great. I'd just like to refer my clients there without having to warn them about it, ya know?

[mamatoElias]

Originally Posted by smeep 

It was a big deal for me. I'm glad it didn't happen when I wasn't there and wasn't pushed when I said no, but it still needs to be fixed. Since I wasn't asked, I'm relatively certain that had I not been there it would have been given anyway. A single bottle could impact many things, including her latch and flow preference as she shows signs of being susceptible to it.It can also mask any early warning signs of potential problems. Beyond all that, it's the simple fact that it somehow shows that breastfeeding is inferior and it's just wrong on so many levels.

But they did treat us wonderfully and I'm so thankful for that. I just think it's very important that they update their protocols to fit with the evidence. Even if the nurse had been rude or forceful, I still wouldn't hold any ill toward those who were great. I'd just like to refer my clients there without having to warn them about it, ya know?

  That makes sense.  And, of course, just because it wouldn't be a big deal to me doesn't mean it shouldn't be to you.  I would be SOOO upset if I were in the same situation, but it was formula in the bottle instead of glucose water.  I know a lot of moms wouldn't agree with a little formula being a big deal, but it sure would be to me.  I'm glad you're doing something to advocate for change and it sounds like you've been respectful and kind while still firmly standing your ground.  

[Mommy2Austin]

I'm a little curious why glucose water would be considered OK and formula would be considered a red flag issue? I agree that the bottle shouldn't have been offered AT ALL (both of my sons had their tongue ties clipped and one of them was 2 yrs old when we did it!) I just don't understand how a non-nutritive substance (glucose water) would be preferred over formula (which although not as great as breast milk at least has nutritive properties.)

I hope the hospital listens to your concerns. That's always a big concern of taking my kids to the hospital. Many hospital "policies" need to be amended to reflect current findings, especially when it comes to children's health!

[D_McG]

The only reason I would have a problem with formula would be that my kids had allergies (MSPI) so I'd worry that it would upset their stomachs. Glucose water is a more benign substance. The bottle is not a big deal to me though.

[Mommy2Austin]

Originally Posted by D_McG 

The only reason I would have a problem with formula would be that my kids had allergies (MSPI) so I'd worry that it would upset their stomachs. Glucose water is a more benign substance. The bottle is not a big deal to me though.

Ahhh! Ok :) Totally understand that then!

[mamatoElias]

Originally Posted by Mommy2Austin 

I'm a little curious why glucose water would be considered OK and formula would be considered a red flag issue? I agree that the bottle shouldn't have been offered AT ALL (both of my sons had their tongue ties clipped and one of them was 2 yrs old when we did it!) I just don't understand how a non-nutritive substance (glucose water) would be preferred over formula (which although not as great as breast milk at least has nutritive properties.)

I hope the hospital listens to your concerns. That's always a big concern of taking my kids to the hospital. Many hospital "policies" need to be amended to reflect current findings, especially when it comes to children's health!

Glucose and water are substances that are in my baby's body anyway.  Cow's milk and vegetable oils and other formula ingredients are not.  There is a big difference between the two even if a child is not allergic to anything in the formula. 
 

[Mommy2Austin]

Originally Posted by mamatoElias 

Glucose and water are substances that are in my baby's body anyway.  Cow's milk and vegetable oils and other formula ingredients are not.  There is a big difference between the two even if a child is not allergic to anything in the formula. 
 

I see your point. Guess we'll just agree to disagree :)

[ShwarmaQueen]

I wouldn't be concerned at the sugar water, but the GA? Now that's risky business. DS had his tt clipped at 6 wks and the doc numbed it with oragel swab. They don't do GA until the baby is 6 mos because by then they can put up a fight...

[BananaBreadGirl]

I would have been upset too. Many problems can be caused by not considering breastmilk a clear liquid, and they shouldn't do anything without your permission. And to have the baby's first sucking with their "new mouth setup" be on an artificial nipple just seems counter-intunitive. Do they have a patient advocate that can help you make sure you get a response? I hope you can communicate with them and get a little education through to that department.

[LUCKYLU]

In some respects I know where you are coming from. They should have asked you first and giving a bottle can confuse the baby I have noticed latching on problems after giving my daughter expressed milk in a bottle, though this has improved a lot.

[LUCKYLU]

Sorry but it is dangerous for health care professionals to assume anything. I had many things left unchecked e.g. though wearing a wrist band for an allergy and telling about the 12 midwife about what I was allergic to i was unable to communicate this to the next midwife as I was in pain and under the effect of painkillers. Health professionals are under a lot of pressure but basic checks always need to be made. Sometimes patients do need to be very assertive in the face of poorly coordinated care and spell out exactly what they need e.g. the only way I got a catherta during labour was to demand one, rather than say 'I haven't been able to wee for 15 hours' to a procession of different nurses sent to 'look after' me and baby during labour, I had to say 'I  need a catherta'. The midwife who gave me the catherta then admitted that my bladder was that full it had probably been causing an obstruction and making the labour take longer. Soz ( I don't know how to spell 'catherta' but at least I knew the name and what they are used for).

[foreverinbluejeans]

Hospitals do not need permission to give bottles. It's important to have no bottles put on the chart and to stay with your child. You are responsible for what happens to your baby unless they forbid you from being in the room. If they do kick you out then you have to let them know. Phlebotomists, medical lab techs, and nurses are usually taught to give bottles during or after procedures. They don't know any better. Patients need to be informed consumers when it comes to medical care. That's not the way it should be but the way it is.

Childrens hospitals may or may not be supportive of breastfeeding. The kinds of patients that they see would have a low breastfeeding rate.

[Almi]

I think my biggest problem with this situation is that they did something to your child without your consent. 

And by the way, that's total bs that hospitals have just made up the rule that they don't need permission to give your baby a bottle.  Would you let a random stranger give your baby a bottle without asking?  No.  They should have the same common courtesy.

[mamaofthree]

as a nurse myself and a mom of 6 kids.. YES you have to get all up in their business sometimes. there is this underlying assumption that parents don't know anything and should not be allowed to be around their kids and honestly it is crap. currently i am studying to become a LC and i am honestly SHOCKED about how little i was taught in school about breastfeeding. SHOCKED! i wouldn't expect any other nurse to have much more info on bf then i did. AND what better thing for a baby to be having right after surgery than breastmilk? even if they aspirate it, it is much better than sugar water or formula. and it seems to me hospital staff is always eager to give a bottle before asking a mom to nurse their baby.

you did the right thing, and write the letter! and all of you, always always always SPEAK UP for yourself and your children when your in the hospital! 

h