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God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible? - Page 2

post #21 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

In Catholicism, God does have a wife: The Church!

 


Actually your post reminded me of something... when I was watching "The Nun's Story" (great filc with Audrey Hepburn) back during the TCM Oscarfest I think...there's a scene in the beginning when as part of her taking her vows, she receives a wedding band. I think it symbolizes her marrying the Church... or perhaps its marrying Jesus? Not sure. Do priests do something similar? Are they considered married to the Church as well?
post #22 of 124
http://www.whattoserveagoddess.com/goddess/

This article says that in the earliest Judeo-Christian church/temples.. the holy spirit was "she".

And here is a cool site about Asherah being the goddess wife of the god "EL". Which is the early Hebrew name for Yahweh.

http://www.freewebs.com/fairypage/judaism.htm
post #23 of 124
Thread Starter 
joy.gif for getting us back on topic philomom.

I love thinking of the Holy Spirit as a she. Reminds me of the book "The Shack" actually. (Granted, I know many Christians have major issues with "The Shack" and the theology therein.))

I had seen something about Ashereh being the wife of "El"...maybe on wiki?

That's a really neat article. http://www.freewebs.com/fairypage/judaism.htm. I love this,
Quote:
"And so this is how the earth was created and why God the Father watches over us from the heavens and God the Mother watches over the earth in which we dwell. El feeds our plants with water from the rains, he warms us with his sun, and he protects us from our enemies with his eyes that never sleep. Our Mother is our Tree of Life from which all things are born and grow. She watches over the earth to make sure that the rivers flow and that trees grow tall and strong. She gives us shelter in her caves and helps our plants grow to feed us. Our Mother helps our wives in childbirth and comforts us when we are sad. "
post #24 of 124


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by umsami View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

In Catholicism, God does have a wife: The Church!

 




Actually your post reminded me of something... when I was watching "The Nun's Story" (great filc with Audrey Hepburn) back during the TCM Oscarfest I think...there's a scene in the beginning when as part of her taking her vows, she receives a wedding band. I think it symbolizes her marrying the Church... or perhaps its marrying Jesus? Not sure. Do priests do something similar? Are they considered married to the Church as well?


Actually, more accurately, the Church is the bride of Christ, that is, Jesus.  God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are generally referred to in the masculine but are not bound by human constraints of gender.  Gender is a human thing, and the only reason Jesus has gender is because he is both God and man.  God is referred to in the Bible with both masculine and feminine attributes.  Besides talking about Jesus, it is not appropriate to refer to God as a man or a woman.  We use masculine pronouns and masculine and feminine terms, but this does not reflect bodily gender.  God is Father, yet God comforts us like a Mother.  That doesn't mean we can refer to God as Mother, but the Bible is clear that God is not constrained in maleness.  To have a female wife, God would have to be male.

 

Nuns are fully the bride of Christ.  They consecrate their lives totally to God, giving up Earthly marriage in anticipation of the heavenly marriage.  The role of priests is a little more confusing.  They are members of the Church, the bride of Christ, but they also represent Christ to the Church, and as such are the spouse of the Church.

 

post #25 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by umsami View Post

joy.gif for getting us back on topic philomom.

I love thinking of the Holy Spirit as a she. Reminds me of the book "The Shack" actually. (Granted, I know many Christians have major issues with "The Shack" and the theology therein.))

I had seen something about Ashereh being the wife of "El"...maybe on wiki?

That's a really neat article. http://www.freewebs.com/fairypage/judaism.htm. I love this,
Quote:
Our Mother is our Tree of Life from which all things are born and grow. She watches over the earth to make sure that the rivers flow and that trees grow tall and strong. She gives us shelter in her caves and helps our plants grow to feed us. Our Mother helps our wives in childbirth and comforts us when we are sad. "


I love personal symbols as a way to remind you of your chosen path in life. Mine have long been a unicorn sitting under the tree of life. The unicorn is for my childlike wonder/innocence of the amazing world around us. The tree of life reminds me that we are a sheltering tree for our family and friends.
post #26 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by umsami View Post

joy.gif for getting us back on topic philomom.

I love thinking of the Holy Spirit as a she. Reminds me of the book "The Shack" actually. (Granted, I know many Christians have major issues with "The Shack" and the theology therein.))

I had seen something about Ashereh being the wife of "El"...maybe on wiki?

That's a really neat article. http://www.freewebs.com/fairypage/judaism.htm. I love this,
Quote:
Our Mother is our Tree of Life from which all things are born and grow. She watches over the earth to make sure that the rivers flow and that trees grow tall and strong. She gives us shelter in her caves and helps our plants grow to feed us. Our Mother helps our wives in childbirth and comforts us when we are sad. "


I love personal symbols as a way to remind you of your chosen path in life. Mine have long been a unicorn sitting under the tree of life. The unicorn is for my childlike wonder/innocence of the amazing world around us. The tree of life reminds me that we are a sheltering tree for our family and friends.

I love this. Thanks!
post #27 of 124

In the Pentateuch, IIRC, there are at least two names for God being Elohim and Yahweh. In Hebrew, the -him ending is the plural marking. So that makes for a complicated viewpoint on the Hebrew God, for sure.

 

This link has a VERY interesting discussion on the original article:

http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2011/03/yahweh-and-asherah-more-archaeo-porn-for-the-masses/

post #28 of 124


 

JMJ - your thoughts have helped me tremendously.  I have struggled very much with the patriarchal language (IMO) of both the Bible and Christian theology. I have been told and I have read that God has both masculine and feminine attributes which very much connects with my own feelings on this subject.  But, still I find the language of the Lord's Prayer and Trinity (just two examples) exclusive and I feel quite alienated by Christian practices and church in general.   But, your words give me hope and some new thoughts on this subject. Thanks. 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post


Gender is a human thing, and the only reason Jesus has gender is because he is both God and man.  God is referred to in the Bible with both masculine and feminine attributes.  Besides talking about Jesus, it is not appropriate to refer to God as a man or a woman.  We use masculine pronouns and masculine and feminine terms, but this does not reflect bodily gender. ...

 

post #29 of 124
Found this interesting lady expounding on the Asherah topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86d5mOCBX9I
post #30 of 124


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuesday View Post


 

JMJ - your thoughts have helped me tremendously.  I have struggled very much with the patriarchal language (IMO) of both the Bible and Christian theology. I have been told and I have read that God has both masculine and feminine attributes which very much connects with my own feelings on this subject.  But, still I find the language of the Lord's Prayer and Trinity (just two examples) exclusive and I feel quite alienated by Christian practices and church in general.   But, your words give me hope and some new thoughts on this subject. Thanks. 


 


I think a lot of Christian women have similar struggles.  God became man through a human mother, making the relationship between the Father and the Son one of fatherhood as opposed to motherhood.  Jesus had a mother in the full sense of the word, but he was not left fatherless.  God the Father was his father.  Even so, God provided his Son with the humanly manhood that a human male father provides in the person of St. Joseph, but this does not take away from the fact that in the relationship that made God to become man, God is father and Mary is mother.

 

I have come to see the designation of "our father" as an imperfect but very beautiful analogy of relationship.  God is our father, not that he is our male parent, but "he" is the one who created us and loves us and provides for us and disciplines us and helps us grow, a model to all fathers... and mothers as well.  God's motherly attributes are important to remember, but the mother analogy breaks down even faster.  So many of the things that make mothers so important involve physical touch: giving birth, breastfeeding, etc.  God is certainly there for us, but not in the concrete way that is absolutely necessary for a mother, in my opinion.

 

post #31 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

but this does not take away from the fact that in the relationship that made God to become man, God is father and Mary is mother.

I realize it is not seen this way in Christianity, but I see this as limiting the imagination. I view the creation of Jesus not in terms of "a baby was made so there must be a mother and a father both" so much as in terms of putting a touch of the origin of creation, of making something from nothing, back into the already created, into the womb of Mary. That the mother of Jesus was a mother because there was a pregnancy and a birth, but that the actual creation of Jesus was not motherly or fatherly but entirely godly and therefore entirely genderless and without gendered roles.
post #32 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post


 


I think a lot of Christian women have similar struggles.  God became man through a human mother, making the relationship between the Father and the Son one of fatherhood as opposed to motherhood.  Jesus had a mother in the full sense of the word, but he was not left fatherless.  God the Father was his father.  Even so, God provided his Son with the humanly manhood that a human male father provides in the person of St. Joseph, but this does not take away from the fact that in the relationship that made God to become man, God is father and Mary is mother.

 

I have come to see the designation of "our father" as an imperfect but very beautiful analogy of relationship.  God is our father, not that he is our male parent, but "he" is the one who created us and loves us and provides for us and disciplines us and helps us grow, a model to all fathers... and mothers as well.  God's motherly attributes are important to remember, but the mother analogy breaks down even faster.  So many of the things that make mothers so important involve physical touch: giving birth, breastfeeding, etc.  God is certainly there for us, but not in the concrete way that is absolutely necessary for a mother, in my opinion.

 

This is why the analogy of God as Father and the Church as Mother is so beautiful.  The mothers role is very physical and tangible.  When we go to the Church for confession, hearing the Word, and especially in Communion, we are able to receive the love of God in a very tangible way.  Christianity does not alienate women or ignore the feminine in spirituality, just the opposite!  Not only is the Church our Mother, but the Church is also the Bride of Christ.  It is a beautiful picture of our relationship to God that includes both the masculine and the feminine in human relationships.

post #33 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalasmueller View Post



 Christianity does not alienate women.  


I sincerely beg to differ. You can look to the bible for proof of its alienation of the feminine.

http://cybercollege.com/antiwoman.htm
post #34 of 124

I do believe God has a wife- a literal one. But I'm Mormon so that's in our doctrine whether the LDS church likes to talk about it or not. As for Her existence being edited out of the Bible I suppose that could be the case but it also may not be. If it's true man oh man I'd love to get my hands on those scriptures! 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by dalasmueller View Post



 Christianity does not alienate women.  




I sincerely beg to differ. You can look to the bible for proof of its alienation of the feminine.

http://cybercollege.com/antiwoman.htm


Sure, and you can also find selected scripture that is empowering to women. Truth is it's all in how Christianity is practiced not so much Christianity in and of itself. 

post #35 of 124

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Sage View Post




The first part is true, the second part not so much.

 

What was not true in When God Was a Woman was that women were not oppressed until those horrible patriarchal Judeo-Christian religions came around and destroyed the goodness of the divine feminine and the cultures which worshiped her.  She claims that Mary had no choice but to be impregnated by the Holy Spirit, and that is simply not true.  She based much of the book on cherry-picked pieces of research and information in order to paint an overall picture that does not depict reality and, frankly, slanders true Christianity.  Now, I can sympathize that there are sects of Christians who mistreat women and use the Bible to justify all sorts of things that are not actually part of the faith, and it sounds like you grew up in such an environment.  However, digging deeper than that and not relying on anti-Christian propaganda would uncover a much more accurate picture of Christianity and the history of women in general.

 

Ding ding ding! And for what it's worth I was also a Dianic Witch and I still do believe in a Goddess. But fabricating history in order to make your religion more valid never did sit right with me even within my own faith. Let's be clear Christianity doesn't have a pristine past especially where women are involved but the world was hardly the Goddess-worshipping utopia so many neo-Pagans want us to believe it was pre-Christianity. And, for the record, even among Christians who don't believe in a Goddess there is still a Divine Feminine- I'm not talking Mary, either. We're it. Womanhood is not looked down on it's lifted up. Sure, tons of Christians forget that but it doesn't make it not the case. I read a lot of conservative anti-feminist Christian blogs and they aren't sitting their bashing women they are preaching about the divinity within womanhood. In all honesty I see more respect for women as they are within this belief than I do in some of the so-called feminist beliefs. Not always, of course, but there you have it. 

post #36 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by dalasmueller View Post



 Christianity does not alienate women.  




I sincerely beg to differ. You can look to the bible for proof of its alienation of the feminine.

http://cybercollege.com/antiwoman.htm



I love that this site says that in Genesis, Lot gave his women to the crowd and the women were ravished and killed.  They weren't. Lot was pulled into the crowd, the crowd was struck with blindness, and the angels led Lot and his family out of the city to safety.

 

I think you have been seriously misguided in your search for feministic views against Christianity.  I am sorry if a Christian in your past has lead you to be this angry against all of us, but the sites you are posting are full of shoddy scholarship.


Edited by PatienceAndLove - 3/30/11 at 7:39am
post #37 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalasmueller View Post



This is why the analogy of God as Father and the Church as Mother is so beautiful.  The mothers role is very physical and tangible.  When we go to the Church for confession, hearing the Word, and especially in Communion, we are able to receive the love of God in a very tangible way.  Christianity does not alienate women or ignore the feminine in spirituality, just the opposite!  Not only is the Church our Mother, but the Church is also the Bride of Christ.  It is a beautiful picture of our relationship to God that includes both the masculine and the feminine in human relationships.


Very well said.  I also read the idea recently that Woman was created out of Man because God would become Man through a Woman.  There's a tremendous interconnectedness of masculine and feminine and the Divine in Christian theology, and it is indeed beautiful. 

 

post #38 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove View Post






 

I think you have been seriously misguided in your search for feministic views against Christianity.  I am sorry if a Christian in your past has lead you to be this angry against all of us, but the sites you are posting are full of shoddy scholarship.


Okay here's a better source. The fact that any woman would have her daughter read this stuff is beyond me.

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/articles/women-bible
post #39 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove View Post





 

 

I think you have been seriously misguided in your search for feministic views against Christianity.  I am sorry if a Christian in your past has lead you to be this angry against all of us, but the sites you are posting are full of shoddy scholarship.




Okay here's a better source. The fact that any woman would have her daughter read this stuff is beyond me.

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/articles/women-bible



OH1 They referenced one of the readings at my wedding- Ephesians 5, my favorite!

 

My very favorite bit: "So also ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife, loveth himself. For no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, as also Christ doth the church"

 

I find your sources to be incredibly biased.

post #40 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceAndLove View Post





OH1 They referenced one of the readings at my wedding- Ephesians 5, my favorite!

 

My very favorite bit: "So also ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife, loveth himself. For no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, as also Christ doth the church"

 

I find your sources to be incredibly biased.


Context is everything.

The verse which keeps coming to mind for me regarding this thread is Matthew 7:6.
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