NON-Vaxers: How do you explain and what are your thoughts on these questions

[Delightful]

I am a non-vaxer. I often see debates/topics come up amoungst parents, and non-vaxers are often attacked with hostile questions. This is hypothetical, and I know not all pro-vaxers are hostile, I just wonder how non-vaxers handle the ones that propose some mighty interesting and hard questions. Please, discuss this and tell me how you respond.

1- " If you avoid vaccinations, what are you gonna do if polio comes back? "

2 - "You do realize diseases are controlled BY vaccinations, right? How else would small pox have been eradicated?"

3 - "You are putting immunocompromised children at risk"

4 - "If you avoid vax, you should also avoid flouride, milk with hormones, meat with hormones, tylenol, etc"

5 - "Your non-vax child is using my vax'd child as a crutch to health, and you are selfish"

6 - "I trust science and science has proven vaccines to be safe through numerous studies"

7 " You take your child to the hospital when they are hurt, how can you dismiss the knowledge of someone who went to medical school?"

Thoughts?

[zinemama]

Back when I was a non-vaxer (I'm not anymore) I simply didn't get into those debates. Why bother? I didn't feel that my kids' vaccination status was anyone else's business and certainly didn't broadcast it to random people who might want to get in arguments with me. I still don't.

[katelove]

Originally Posted by Delightful 

I am a non-vaxer. I often see debates/topics come up amoungst parents, and non-vaxers are often attacked with hostile questions. This is hypothetical, and I know not all pro-vaxers are hostile, I just wonder how non-vaxers handle the ones that propose some mighty interesting and hard questions. Please, discuss this and tell me how you respond.

1- " If you avoid vaccinations, what are you gonna do if polio comes back? " 

Polio hasn't gone away. If there was an outbreak in my area I would consider what to do in those specific circumstances. 

2 - "You do realize diseases are controlled BY vaccinations, right? How else would small pox have been eradicated?"

Vaccinations certainly have their place in the public health toolbox. Call me selfish but I am primarily concerned with one little individual's health and wellbeing.

3 - "You are putting immunocompromised children at risk"

No more than anyone else. Most diseases are infections before symptoms manifest. Anyone could be out in public transmitting infection without realising it.

4 - "If you avoid vax, you should also avoid flouride, milk with hormones, meat with hormones, tylenol, etc"

Um, well, all quite different issues. How do you know I/we don't avoid those things?

5 - "Your non-vax child is using my vax'd child as a crutch to health, and you are selfish"

Not at all. I would never ask another parent to vaccinate their child to protect mine. Are the parents of the chidren in Q3 selfish as well?

6 - "I trust science and science has proven vaccines to be safe through numerous studies"

I would be very interested to read those studies, can you tell me where I can find them? 

7 " You take your child to the hospital when they are hurt, how can you dismiss the knowledge of someone who went to medical school?"

I don't dismiss the knowledge of anyone who went to medical school. Just because I disagree or don't follow someone's advice doesn't mean I am being dismissive. That said, what do you call the guy who came bottom of his class at med school? Doctor

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that the people asking the above questions don't know a great deal about vaccinations or diseases. I have answered the questions according to my current mood (slightly snarky). If the asker was someone who I really liked and/or I thought they were genuinely interested in my decision or genuinely seeking information then I would answer differently. But the gist would still be the same.

[Arduinna]

Honestly, I don't even bother.

[chaoticzenmom]

Originally Posted by Delightful 

I am a non-vaxer. I often see debates/topics come up amoungst parents, and non-vaxers are often attacked with hostile questions. This is hypothetical, and I know not all pro-vaxers are hostile, I just wonder how non-vaxers handle the ones that propose some mighty interesting and hard questions. Please, discuss this and tell me how you respond.

1- " If you avoid vaccinations, what are you gonna do if polio comes back? " If polio comes back, I'll consider vaccinating for it.

2 - "You do realize diseases are controlled BY vaccinations, right? How else would small pox have been eradicated?"  Vaccines help to eradicate disease, but so does clean water, sanitation, good health and access to good health practitioners. 

3 - "You are putting immunocompromised children at risk" They are at risk and they would be at risk regardless of whether I vaccinated my child.  Germs are everywhere and immunocompromised children are always at risk of getting sick from something that other people would never know that they were exposed to.  If vaccinating all children would truly make immunocompromised children safe, that would be a compelling argument.  You just never know which child is going to be at risk for having a bad vaccine reaction until after it's done.

4 - "If you avoid vax, you should also avoid flouride, milk with hormones, meat with hormones, tylenol, etc"  So, you shouldn't do anything if you can't do everything?  I do what I can.  Mostly, I do avoid those things though, but I'm not militant about them.

5 - "Your non-vax child is using my vax'd child as a crutch to health, and you are selfish" Then stop vaccinating and don't be the crutch.  If you truly think that you're putting your child at risk for the greater good, then that's your choice to put your child at risk.  I don't think that vaccines are safe long-term, so I'm not going to do it.  You have the same option.  If you don't think it's safe, then why are you doing it.  If you do think it's safe, then what does it matter if I don't do it. 

6 - "I trust science and science has proven vaccines to be safe through numerous studies"  What studies? There has never been a study comparing vaccinated people to non-vaccinated people.  There have only been studies about effectiveness and some safety studies on the antigens.  Did you know that the Bird flu (h5n1) vaccine trials killed many adults...that's why there was no vaccine developed for it.  Vaccines aren't candy. 

7 " You take your child to the hospital when they are hurt, how can you dismiss the knowledge of someone who went to medical school?" I don't dismiss the knowledge of someone who went to medical school.  I hope that his education wasn't contaminated by conflicts of interest.  Did you know that Harvard medical students had to protest the fact that their teachers are allowed to take money from pharmaceutical companies.  Many top medical schools allow this kind of conflict of interest.  A lot of medical textbooks are also written by drug manufacturers

http://ethicalbusinessethics.blogspot.com/2010/11/who-writes-medical-textbooks-you-might.html

Many people who did go to medical school are against vaccines.  It is difficult to know who to listen to.

Thoughts?

It does bother me that people think that my decision affects their decision in a negative way.  They've decided to risk their child for the greater good, so I should as well or their risk means nothing.  I don't know how to answer that other than to say that I'm just not willing.  I don't trust the whole business.  I think that vaccines can be good and if I thought the whole business of vaccines was truly about people, I'd be willing to take the risk.  My children trust me to do the best I can for them.  I can't hand over the trust of their health to a system that I believe is corrupt.  So many of my friends children have neurological issues.  Mine don't.  I don't have that great of genes and I do have neurological disorders in my family, so I honestly think that my kids have been spared by my not vaccinating them.  This reminds me of the story "The Lottery."  If stoning one person to death each year would keep everyone else safe from violence, would it be worth it?
 

[Mosaic]

Moving to INV since you're looking for responses specifically from non-vaxers.

[crunchy_mommy]

I can't imagine actually talking about these things in real life... most of my friends and family just would never ask these kinds of questions, but if I were to try to answer them....

1- " If you avoid vaccinations, what are you gonna do if polio comes back? "
I'd weigh the pros & cons of vaxing again in the context of a polio outbreak.

2 - "You do realize diseases are controlled BY vaccinations, right? How else would small pox have been eradicated?"
Many changes have occurred over the last ~100 years, including better medical care, improved sanitation, etc. Vaccines are only one part of a much bigger picture (and there are lots of theories as to how much a part vaxes actually played in eradicating disease).

3 - "You are putting immunocompromised children at risk"
(Well, in the first place, a kid recently vaxed with a live virus should avoid immunocompromised children too, but for some reason that never seems to be a concern....)
There are MANY other diseases which vaxes aren't even available for and which are much more widely circulating, so unfortunately immunocompromised children are already at great risk whether or not I vax. Some vaxes aren't 100% effective and some prevent infection but don't prevent transmission, so in many ways they may be more at risk -- I won't see the symptoms of the disease my kid is carrying, and thus will be out & about and more likely to come in contact with & infect an immunocompromised child. If I know my kid is contagious, I keep him home.

4 - "If you avoid vax, you should also avoid flouride, milk with hormones, meat with hormones, tylenol, etc"
I do avoid all of those things.

5 - "Your non-vax child is using my vax'd child as a crutch to health, and you are selfish"
You are free to not vax as well, and I wouldn't fault you one bit! (Not to mention that your vaxed child is putting my child at risk via shedding, serotype replacement, etc. if you really want to get into that...)

6 - "I trust science and science has proven vaccines to be safe through numerous studies"
Awesome. Glad you are happy with your choices.

7 " You take your child to the hospital when they are hurt, how can you dismiss the knowledge of someone who went to medical school?"
I don't take every bit of advice a doctor gives me. When time allows me the luxury of researching my own decisions (i.e. non-emergency medical care) then I take the time to get second opinions and investigate further. In an acute emergency, the priority shifts to 'whatever it takes to survive'. Plus, doctors have a lot more training in some areas than others...

[ema-adama]

Why are you wanting to debate  people on this topic? And, what are your reasons for not vaccinating?

Either you are comfortable with your choice, or you are not. But debating people on vaccine issues is unlikely to make you more or less comfortable with your choice. It is likely to waste a lot of your time. Unless you really like getting into vaccine issues, and informing yourself.

If you do not know whether you would vaccinate for polio or not, you might find it helpful to think through the issue for yourself. If you do not know the history of smallpox, don't even try to debate it.

Know your reasons why you are making your choices and make peace with them. You are not going to change anyones mind, other than your own.

[Asiago]

I have no issue if someone makes informed choices when choosing to vaccinate or not. I would think that most of the vaxers, as well as the non vaxers, who are members of MDC are likely more informed than the average parent. I just find members of this message board to be more knowledgable about vaccination than many of the parents that I know or have met. Regarding the questions, it's likely wise to avoid a debate. A person who is informed about vaccination is also informed about not vaccinating and would likely respect the parents decision, knowing that either decision carries benefits and risks. If you really do want to respond to questions though, it often helps to answer a question with a question, so long as you know the answer. It will help to determine the person's level of knowledge on vaccines and if it is even worth persuing a discussion.