This book goes into great detail, highly recommended:
I don't think the fact that rewards and punishment exist in our culture is sound evidence they are a good thing. Many awful things also exists in our culture, doesn't make them something to emulate. Plus, anything that exists in our culture is evidence that it is a bad thing, generally, considering the state of our people, society, and the planet - which we're destroying. We've messed everything up, and a ridiculously high percentage of people are medicated or at the very least, highly dissatisfied with life. I don't think anything we do is evidence we should continue to do it, quite the opposite. In fact, I use as my yard stick "which culture does this, and how well functioning is this culture?" therefore, when it comes to the white western culture... eeeerk. I'm not interested because we're such a self-obsessed, unhealthy, obnoxious, greedy bunch of brats - and it's no secret, it's a cliche for a reason.
The difference between intrinsic motivation and extrinsic, is with extrinsic you need the motivator to get the job done. Intrinsic motivation gets something done without that need. In fact, studies have shown that extrinsic rewards eliminate the desire to do the task at all. For example they studied children doing art work: they all started doing it just out of the joy of doing the art. Some of the children were rewarded for their art, and after a while, those ones lost enthusiasm for the art, most eventually quit unless the reward became greater and greater. The kids who were not interfered with in such a way kept the same level of enthusiasm.
There are areas of our life that are called "rewards" but really aren't. We are not "rewarded" for our jobs for instance, we are paid in much the same way barter functioned - you can have this lettuce if I can have that cabbage. That isn't a reward and can't be compared to one. So when it all boils down, our society doesn't really reward you often at all once you are an adult. There are sports and so on, but how many of us really get a reward of any sort for doing anything? We all deserve them, but we don't get them. So in childhood we were first messed with by shown that when you do something you get something in return other than the satisfaction of the task itself - only to be disillusioned in adulthood by the fact that there are actually NO rewards, we're expected to do all we do just because it needs to be done.
I agree with almost everything you have written here, Calm, but I disagree with this. I get bonuses for doing extra jobs above and beyond my normal job expectations or if my job is particularly well done, and our admin team regularly reards staff with pats on the back, small gifts or special days/events as a reward for a job well done. I do not think this is abnormal and I see my salary as a reward, too. I could be paid much less for what I do, but because I do it well, I am paid accordingly. I used to earn minimum wage, but now with time and experience I earn more. I think of this as a reward and it is motivation for doing my job. The more we are rewarded in the job the more motivated we feel to do the job and do it well. I love my job and love doing it and have at times done my job without being paid very much but we always have been recognized and rewarded for a job well done be it monetarily, in material gifts, or with special treats...it is a key tool of Human resources and not at all a myth.
I learned from this disillusionment by trying something different with my kids. I show them the joy of a task, how to extract the greatest reward from the task itself. My father taught me that, he did not reward us like the rest of society did, but he modeled great joy in all he did, from the dirtiest, sweat inducing jobs through to simply washing dishes - he sang, he made funny songs and jokes, and he could be found doing this even when he thought he was home alone. He didn't seem to distinguish between work and play... it was all play. With the bookshelf example in my last post, I sing, I play, and nothing motivates them to join me in a task more than seeing me enjoying it.
I wish I could get it up for doing the dishes or washing clothes...I just can't. How do you do it?!
As for religion, there are many who do not need religion to do the right thing. The religious still kill each other and act like total brats, so it doesn't seem to be something that actually works to keep us plebs in check anyway. It's another example of how fear and rewards are limited, at best, as control tactics.
I don't quite understand this. There should be a balance between gentle discipline and non-gentle discipline?
I was wondering the same thing!