Do you think this is a big deal? - Page 2

[meemee]

you know sometimes ex gets to me. and makes me doubt myself. most of the times i can figure out the reality, but times i wonder - could he be right. 

and then i need an unbiased view.

lynn i am just beginning. i am applying to grad schools for both a straight phd program with a masters degree as well as masters degree programs. i am a non traditional student so not sure which program i am going to get in. 

i am looking for a job and having aid allows me the chance to actually find something more my field than just work at target. and as a student in these hard times its easier finding a job. 

once i get to grad school i hope i will get a TA position. 

[AllisonR]

My 2 cents: if your education was 6m-1y more, I'd say hold out on the job and concentrate on getting the degree. But you are talking years more. Study at night when your DD is asleep. And get a p/t job for 2 or 3 of the days your xh has your DD. Not just for your DD, but also for yourself. You don't have to go back to 60hr workweek, there's a lot of grey area in between. 

[Polliwog]

I see no reason why you should have to get a job. Your ex should be paying child support for his daughter. What you do with the child support is none of his business if his daughter is being cared for.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by Polliwog 

I see no reason why you should have to get a job. Your ex should be paying child support for his daughter. What you do with the child support is none of his business if his daughter is being cared for.

My understanding, though, is that *she* didn't ask for child support. He's upset because she said that she didn't want him to pay child support, but now he has to pay for any extras their daughter does because she can't afford it. So really, he'd have been better off paying child support that she used to cover extras for their dd. At least he'd know month-to-month what he's expected to pay. I don't see him as a bad guy here (OP either). It just seems that the idea of no child support doesn't work that well if he's expected to pony up when the OP can't pay for something.

OP, in your shoes, I'd probably get a job. I didn't work through graduate school. I could have worked some (beyond being a TA, which paid well below poverty rates)  and wish now that I had. You have a long time to go. In my field (which is pretty close to yours), the average PhD student takes 7 years. You'll be in your mid-50s when you're done with that time frame. The chances of a FT post-secondary teaching job will be pretty slim then if that's what you're hoping to do. What kind of career plan is there that's going to provide for your retirement? Will you be able to help your dd go to college? All of those questions are important to me - moreso than planting a garden (especially in that plenty of people work and plant gardens and learn to be self-sufficient). Student life is fun, and I think you enjoy the flexibility and freedom. It just seems, though, that it doesn't create a viable long-term lifestyle.

[JudiAU]

I can understand where you are coming from. My brother's ex lived solely on brother's cs payments for what, at least twelve years now. No job ever, always telling the kids they were poor because their father "didn't support them." First it was because was "entitled" to be a SAHM, and then because she provided the most pathetic excuse for homeschooling ever, and then because she "finish her teaching credential" which the state didn't even require. Her mom and my mom both provide on-demand childcare frequently. Her current reason is that she can't find a job because she is only willing to work at two schools in her area and neither of them want her because she and her kids have spent enough time there to know that 1) terrible teacher, 2) terrible volunteer, and 3) is unstable.

So, yeah, I think both parents have a financial obligation to their children that might not be compatible with the person's life dreams or preferences. And being the primary caregiver is not enough. Being a student is not enough if you aren't bringing anything else to the table. Childrearing requies money. But it sounds like you are providing for her financially though your student loans? Right? It might not be luxurious but you are providing for her. I think that is enough. If you can provide that basics than it isn't any of his business.

(Most states to do not offer assistance to full time students.)

You said he doesn't pay child support but he does contribute? Does he have an issue with how it happens? Does he feel like LO always has her hand out? If he hates that feeling, and I can see why he might, might a regular fixed CS payment work better anyway? Do you have any idea what he is obligated to pay under state law? It might help you both put it into perspective.

[meemee]

first i think we have different outlook at what is important for dd. oh we've tried talking but it never goes anywhere. while for me dd's mental and emotional health is most important for ex its the physical in the form of toys, extracurricula activities. i do understand his point of view because dd has talents and i cant afford to pay for classes like music and sports that she wants to do.

yes i support my child and we have always had this understanding that one covers the other as life happens. so for the first 5 years of dd's life i was taking care of things. he did pay CS when we separated initially when he wasnt taking dd for much time. and then when he started taking her he stopped paying. i was glad for that, because that money was creating a huge rift among us. it was huge so much so that dd was picking up on it. 

which is why i was ok with no CS. when i was making the money and getting CS i was taking care of all of dd's stuff. ex bought nothing - not even diapers. 

today x has to take care of 2 snacks, 2 dinners and 3 breakfasts a week. he buys her uniforms and clothes (he gets teh majority, i get some, but i get all her coats, underwear and socks) and toys that she wants. like he got her the DSi that she has been wanting for 3 years. he 'buys' things, we 'do' things on a limited budget. that has always been our division of labor because of our own personal likes and dislikes. while i have travelled with dd as and when i can, he took dd for the first time when seh was 5. not because of money, but because he struggles to be a full time father. he passes her on to others (he works from home so childcare is not an issue). when he has had to take her more she ends up watching movies. 

he feels we have too much 'fun' (at least that's what he told dd - that we should cut out the fun) and that i should go back to work. our fun is afterschooling. it is because of extra schooling that dd can tolerate being at school. he feels she will have to just deal with what life hands her if she is having trouble. the thing is she paints only the picture he wants to see so he doesnt get to see how miserable she was in K, so i cant really blame him. why have so many sleepovers. why go to so many events. if i worked he would take her more and do none of these stuff.  he is as important in her life as me so when dd says she prefers to be with me more than him - it isnt about choosing sides. its about doing things. he has started taking her out socially in teh last year. he has taken her for her first movie a few months ago.  he has never ever taken her to the zoo or hiking or any of the stuff she likes to do. 

while i feel this is a fair division of labor and expenses i guess he doesnt feel it is so. really its been just the last six months that things have been really tough for me. which means not much money for luxury. our life style has changed drastically where going out to eat, movies, and other similar things are concerned. 

[ssh]

So your ex wants you to cut out all the activities you and your DD do after school and things like going to the zoo, having sleepovers, hiking, and the other fun stuff? He thinks you should work along with being a  full time student and your DD should just sit alone at his house watching movies? He doesn't see any value in a parent doing fun things with their child, but sees value in a parent working more and buying their child things? I'll say again I think he's trying to control you. Also he has completely different values and priorities than you do. I do think that once basic necessities are met, spending time with your DD is more important than buying her stuff.

By the way, what's your major and have you researched your earning potential and job availability after you graduate? I know in some fields people teach while graduate students.

[One_Girl]

I think your ex is trying to be controlling, but I also think you should get a job and not rely on student loans.  The job market is very tight right now and jobs aren't easy to come by, even low paying ones.  There is also age discrimination to contend with now to some extent but when you are over 50 for sure.  Even when the job market was good people nearing retirement age had a tough time and it is worse now.  Getting your degree is a wonderful thing to do for yourself, but it doesn't mean you will be a shoe in for a great paying job or that you will be able to pay back the loans you are getting to live off of now.  They will not let you default on the loans or write them off in a bankruptcy, if you don't pay them they will garnish a huge chunk from your wages no matter how pitiful those wages are in order to get the money back and they can take them from your social security money when you retire.  Taking things easy now and focusing on your child is wonderful for you both in the short therm but it is probably going to come back and bite you on the butt in the end when you are much older and much less employable.  I think that cutting back to part time school hours and working part time (or even full time if you can study while your dd is with her father) is something to consider, especially if your degree is going to enrich your life but is never going to get you very far in the job market (anthropology, english, philosophy, etc...). 

It is very possible to work, attend school, and have a deep relationship with your child.  You have a nice set up with your ex as a co-parent that may help it work out in a way that benefits both of you because you have more big chunks of time to use for separating work and school from the time you spend with your dd.  It was hard to not bring work or school home to infringe on my time with dd because I didn't have any support from my ex, in your case you may be able to look at your time and find a way to manage it so you can keep your worlds separate and reserve your time with your dd for quality mom/daughter time.

[meemee]

i have been looking for a job the last 6 months. i have to work, just to pay my living expenses. there is no way i can manage paying for school tuitibuon. 

there is the earning part but there is also the adult - having worked but not working now - dissatisfaction that i have to contend with. i am scheduled for a job at school starting june. but i've had to wait for the right kind of job to come by that will work with my classes, volunteer work and our schedule without dd really losing out much on what we do at home. 

but i only wanted to go back to work when dd was ready to. as she is growing older and developing a social life and being able to pursue her interests on her own - i can feel she does not need me that much. she can now do work independently on her own without me. but that has happened only recently. once i start working at school she can come with me after school and hang out at the study center and join the students in their projects. we did that last semester and the kids miss her presence.

but the fact is not that. the fact is ex refuses to listen or understand why i am leading the life that i am. he was the one who talked about homeschooling right when i got pregnant. but when teh time came to deliver he changed his mind. which is ok. but it pisses me off that he doesnt see the value of all that i do for dd. if it isnt earning a living it is not of value. he has tried to involve my friends and get me to act upon his desires (knew them when we were married) and they try to make him see the value of what i am doing and he still wont listen.

i have worked and made tonnes of money. i have lived poor. i hope just coz i pursue anthro i wont get a high paying job. however i am prepared for that. i would much rather live poor and do what i want to then not. yes i probably wont be able to support dd with things like college, but i am putting in the effort now to help her grow as a person who can deal with what life hands her. 

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by One_Girl 
It is very possible to work, attend school, and have a deep relationship with your child.  You have a nice set up with your ex as a co-parent that may help it work out in a way that benefits both of you because you have more big chunks of time to use for separating work and school from the time you spend with your dd.  It was hard to not bring work or school home to infringe on my time with dd because I didn't have any support from my ex, in your case you may be able to look at your time and find a way to manage it so you can keep your worlds separate and reserve your time with your dd for quality mom/daughter time.

I agree completely. I work about 30 hours a week, attend school full-time, and do the majority of child-rearing/housework in our family right now. I am married, but when DH is on a deadline for a project, he's just not around every night. We also have soccer (x2), volunteer activities, gardening, etc. Those things all are possible to do. It just takes a good bit of juggling.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by meemee 

i have been looking for a job the last 6 months. i have to work, just to pay my living expenses. there is no way i can manage paying for school tuitibuon. 

there is the earning part but there is also the adult - having worked but not working now - dissatisfaction that i have to contend with. i am scheduled for a job at school starting june. but i've had to wait for the right kind of job to come by that will work with my classes, volunteer work and our schedule without dd really losing out much on what we do at home. 

but i only wanted to go back to work when dd was ready to. as she is growing older and developing a social life and being able to pursue her interests on her own - i can feel she does not need me that much. she can now do work independently on her own without me. but that has happened only recently. once i start working at school she can come with me after school and hang out at the study center and join the students in their projects. we did that last semester and the kids miss her presence.

but the fact is not that. the fact is ex refuses to listen or understand why i am leading the life that i am. he was the one who talked about homeschooling right when i got pregnant. but when teh time came to deliver he changed his mind. which is ok. but it pisses me off that he doesnt see the value of all that i do for dd. if it isnt earning a living it is not of value. he has tried to involve my friends and get me to act upon his desires (knew them when we were married) and they try to make him see the value of what i am doing and he still wont listen.

i have worked and made tonnes of money. i have lived poor. i hope just coz i pursue anthro i wont get a high paying job. however i am prepared for that. i would much rather live poor and do what i want to then not. yes i probably wont be able to support dd with things like college, but i am putting in the effort now to help her grow as a person who can deal with what life hands her. 

The bolded part may be how you feel now when you are healthy and have options but I have seen it backfire for my step father and some of my extended family.  Is it possible that your ex is worried about that possibility for you and that you are passing a belief that is very scary to him on to your child?  I have also lived poor and the thought of my dd choosing to live that way is very scary to me because it isn't the happy fun thing that some people find it to be once the bill collectors come around, when you have to drag a child into it, and your health starts to deteriorate.  The neighborhoods I grew up in and the one I gave birth to my child in weren't fun places to raise a kid, they were the ones we could afford but they were scary and filled with drug use and death.  I did find happiness as a child and as an adult despite living in serious poverty, but it wasn't the full happiness that comes with not having to worry constantly about where the money is going to come from for a housing, food, clothes, etc...  I also am much happier living without the fear of my roof falling in on my head (something that almost happened to me) or my child seeing the kinds of illegal activities I saw as a child. 

It sounds like you have a lot to work out right now and your ex is adding some stress to that.  I hope that gets resolved quickly and the job goes well for you.  I found that once I got one job I was able to move on to another better one without having to deal with the out of work question.

[Lisa1970]

no, he is just being a jerk. 

[Lisa1970]

I wanted to say more earlier, but had a toddler climbing on me. Thing is..what business is it to him how much money you make or don't make. Would he be paying any less if you made more? I am thinking not. I don't know your agreement, but of the people I know with child support agreements, it does not really matter how much one parent makes to say what the other has to pay. If you work, you will be there less for your child. I know school can be very demanding, plus you are taking care of her. Maybe you could start saying things back to him that are sort of...well ..like "are you having financial problems?" and "there was a time when a man took pride in how well he provided for his children, is that bothering you now?" and also remind him that the better you do in school now, the more money you will earn later. Plus, your child will be better off in the long run to have spent more time with an involved parent. Studying is a job. When does he expect you to study if you go to class fulltime, work, and care for her? Does he even realize how little you would earn in a parttime job? You would probably have to cut back your hours at school resulting in you only working parttime for low wages even longer.

[meemee]

oh my One_Girl.  that sounds soooo scary. fear of the roof falling over your head. wow. 

nah - i will never get to that place. while dd and i have been poor we have never been in serious poverty. we have never ever even lived in a shady neighbourhood. there are enough people around me - friends - who will never let me get to that place. 

dd choosing to live poor to her means - no cable, no going to the movies every week, no eating out a few times a month, no buying toys regularly, eating meat once or twice a month instead of once a week (we are both not big fan of meat). there is no question about basic necessities. i think its given her a good idea about money in a more practical way rather than pocket money (she goes grocery shopping on the nights she cooks and she has to buy on a budget). in fact her teacher was telling me how well dd does with debt and paying it back in her class (lessons with money). i do a lot of trade and dd is understanding the value of bartering. 

ex and i are always going to be a work in progress. things have mellowed down a lot in teh last 7 years yet he still carries a lot of anger against me (its not fair my life is so easy and his is not). he is an extremely smart man so i dont really have to tell him anything. 
 

Originally Posted by One_Girl 

The bolded part may be how you feel now when you are healthy and have options but I have seen it backfire for my step father and some of my extended family.  Is it possible that your ex is worried about that possibility for you and that you are passing a belief that is very scary to him on to your child?  I have also lived poor and the thought of my dd choosing to live that way is very scary to me because it isn't the happy fun thing that some people find it to be once the bill collectors come around, when you have to drag a child into it, and your health starts to deteriorate.  The neighborhoods I grew up in and the one I gave birth to my child in weren't fun places to raise a kid, they were the ones we could afford but they were scary and filled with drug use and death.  I did find happiness as a child and as an adult despite living in serious poverty, but it wasn't the full happiness that comes with not having to worry constantly about where the money is going to come from for a housing, food, clothes, etc...  I also am much happier living without the fear of my roof falling in on my head (something that almost happened to me) or my child seeing the kinds of illegal activities I saw as a child. 

It sounds like you have a lot to work out right now and your ex is adding some stress to that.  I hope that gets resolved quickly and the job goes well for you.  I found that once I got one job I was able to move on to another better one without having to deal with the out of work question.

[K1329]

Personally, I would caution against large amounts of student loans. If you can do it with little to no loan debt, go for it, regardless of what your ex thinks. But, if you are relying solely on student loans, I probably would not pursue a graduate degree at this time. But, I have seen a couple of friends saddle themselves with massive student loan debt. At the graduate level, students can take out over 100,000.00 in student loans. One of my friends was essentially broke, despite making a 6 figure salary, due to servicing such a large amount of student loan debt. Of course, you'll need to research what salary you can expect in your chosen field versus what debt load you'll carry to earn the degree. But, living off of student loans for today can royally screw up your plans for tomorrow.

Good luck with whatever you decide! And I agree with a pp - your ex doesn't have much say regarding your personal financial situation!

[stik]

I agree with others who have said that your ex is being a jerk.

I also agree with others who have said that you have a long academic program in front of you, and it's a good idea to seek paying work now rather than waiting until you have completed your program.

there is the earning part but there is also the adult - having worked but not working now - dissatisfaction that i have to contend with. i am scheduled for a job at school starting june. but i've had to wait for the right kind of job to come by that will work with my classes, volunteer work and our schedule without dd really losing out much on what we do at home. 

This set of priorities is undermining you financially and costing you opportunities to build your resume before graduation.  It makes sense that your schedule with your dd is really important.  It would also make sense to prioritize paid employment over volunteer work, and to try to coordinate your class schedule with a work schedule.  

[meemee]

the job is to pay bills.

the volunteer job is for the real job. getting into the field i want to get into. it is an even greater investment than just getting a paid job. since it is not easy getting into my field thru volunteer i get to know the basics ANd be seen by the people who hire or are involved in getting to know me. its not so much for me to find a job as much as to find it in the area i want to be.

so far no - i have taken out only a small amount of loans which is why i am so on the edge.

however i am going into a v. specialised field where its volunteer work and activism is what matters. so really i dont see myself getting something close to that for another few years. however its that volunteer work that is giving me the special knowledge that will be needed in future. and because it is voluntary work - dd is getting experience too as she goes with me. 

which is why i am not concerned about my resume. and future jobs. right now. in time that will come.