Dilemma with my dad - WWYD?

[AutumnAir]

I think this goes here, because although it probably touches other issues, it's mostly about parenting decisions.

I'll try to be brief, but I'm pretty long-winded, so here goes:

I'm over visiting my folks in Ireland for a few weeks right now, staying with my mom.  Ages back I'd planned to drive over to some other family in the West of Ireland for a few days during this trip, and I asked my dad if he'd come with me for the company and to help share the driving (about 4-5 hours there, another 2-3 hours up to another uncle and then the same back again, all over 4-5 days).  He agreed (they're his sister and brother and their kids) and all seemed well.

Except:

My Dad's an alcoholic.  When I asked him to come with me, as far as I knew he was sober.  But he's now drinking again. In the last couple of weeks he's only seen me and the girls a handful of times, and all of those times he was either drunk or hungover I'm pretty sure - he's very good at covering up most of the time and flat-out denials if that doesn't work.  This, in itself is disappointing.

 But he's also had two instances of very poor judgement with the girls - first time he was pushing DD1 on her Trunki on a tiled floor and according to DD1 (I wasn't there to see it) pushed her much too fast and she fell right off the back and smacked her head on the tiles.  Ended up with a huge bump and was inconsolable for quite a while - and this is my rubber-baby who just bounces when she falls down usually.  

Then about a week later he took DD2 from my mom at a dinner party she was having for us.  He basically dropped DD2 to try to catch a plant she had been playing with that he *thought* was falling down.  He sort of half-caught her by her arms, nearly wrenching them out of her shoulder sockets and she also hit the floor a bit.  I grabbed her from him, shouted at him to the effect that you let a plant fall before you let a baby fall and went outside to try to console DD2 who was also badly shocked and in a fair bit of pain.

In between both of these incidents my mom's mom was taken ill and brought to hospital.  My mom and brother drove up there that night, but my mom had called my dad to ask him to come out and stay with me and the girls because she didn't want us on our own.  (Not my idea!) But when he came out he was totally drunk, passed out on the couch and stayed there snoring his head off all the next morning while the girls were trying to play.

Given all of this I decided I needed to make it clear that if he was going to come with us on this trip we had planned that I expected him to be sober for the duration of it. So yesterday evening when he called out I put it to him plainly that if he wanted to come that I needed him not to drink for those 5 days.  When I brought it up, he went on the offensive and tried to lay a guilt trip on me while completely denying that he had been drinking or that his drinking and related paranoia had contributed in large part to his errors of judgement.  This used to work on me when I was a kid, but I can see through this strategy of his now, and I wouldn't let him get away with it.  He got quite unpleasant with me, shouting me down, refusing to let me speak, being sarcastic and so on.  

It finally ended with him sort of half-heartedly saying that he wouldn't drink while he came with us, as he was walking out the door.  We're supposed to be leaving tomorrow morning and he still hasn't contacted me. I don't want to contact him because I know that's what he wants - if I make the first move it means, in his head, that I was in the wrong and he's right.

So, basically, I'm wondering what would you do in this situation? Go without him? (And say what to his brother and sister when they ask where he is?) Let him come, if he turns up, but not let him drive or have any responsibilities with the girls? (But then what's the point of having him along at all?) Call him now to ask him whether he's coming or not?  I know what I'm leaning towards, but having lived with him and his BS for so long as a kid, and having plenty of my own issues with him, I'm not sure if I'm thinking clearly or not.  

Also, what would you do in the future? I would like my kids to have a good relationship with their grandfather, particularly since DH is estranged from his father, but at what cost? What sort of limits/boundaries should I set, and how? 

Any and all advice really appreciated, if you've managed to read through all of this!!

[Tigerchild]

I would go without him unless he calls, and comes over that morning sober.  i wouldn't engage too much with him about it--you gave him your stipulations, if he chooses to not abide by them then that is 100 percent his fault, not yours.  I would probably call up your aunt and uncle and tell him that he wasn't going to be able to make it this time (if he doesn't call or if you have to leave him behind) but you're really looking forward to seeing them.  How close are you to them?  If they ask why when you're there, I'd probably just be honest and say that he's been drinking again (I assume they know that he's an alcoholic).  If they ask more questions, you can always ask them to talk to him.

I would also not wait long on him tomorrow morning.  if he hasn't shown by 30 minutes past your leaving time, and hasn't called, I'd go ahead without him as well. 

[limabean]

I would go without him. It sounds like he won't be a help, and will probably actually be a hindrance. You'll probably be too suspicious to let him drive or be on his own with the kids (I would be, too). If your relatives ask why he's not there I'd be honest but brief. 

[LynnS6]

I'd go without him even if he does call and comes over apparently sober. He's an alcoholic. He's drinking. He cannot be trusted to keep a promise not to drink.

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by AutumnAir 

Given all of this I decided I needed to make it clear that if he was going to come with us on this trip we had planned that I expected him to be sober for the duration of it. 

I think you are putting way to high expectations on an alcoholic. He will fail, and you will be disappointed (yet again). And considering he just physically hurt your two children (intentional or not) you will be angry at YOURSELF for life if you allow him to do this again and it doesn't turn out to be just a bruised head. 

You can not change people. You can not, no matter how hard you try to negotiate, be good, beg, plead, be firm, be soft, whatever.... But you can change yourself, and yourself only. Make decisions based on the best outcome for yourself and your children. That is the only you have responsibility for. Not your father or his drinking.  

Best outcome for yourself and your dear children would be to go visit family. With your kids. Without your father. You don't have to shout, argue, debate with him. If he does show up (and I'll bet he doesn't even show up in the morning you are supposed to go because 5 days without alcohol will be eternity), then just say you are sorry, but he can not come because of his alcoholism. Then take your kids and get on the road, before a huge escalation that stresses you even more when you should be concentrating on driving. If your relatives ask, you only have to say he has been drinking again, so he could not come. And drop it. I am sure it isn't a huge surprise to his family. There is a hue elephant in the room, everyone knows it, even if they "don't". 

And have a good trip. Enjoy this time with your kids. If a long drive, take a break in the middle to stop and walk around, eat out... Enjoy yourselves. 

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild 

I would go without him unless he calls, and comes over that morning sober.  i wouldn't engage too much with him about it--you gave him your stipulations, if he chooses to not abide by them then that is 100 percent his fault, not yours.   

I disagree with this. It could be 100% his fault, but it will end up being her responsibility. Even if he comes sober, the OP is putting him up for a test, which he will 99.9% fail. And then she has to deal with the mess. What happens if it goes well for 2 days, then he ends up drinking and she has to drive him back home with her kids? What if he is fine and then half hour after they leave he gets argumentative, then she is trapped in the car with him and an ugly scene that frankly her children should not have to deal with. And giving her children the message that even though things are ugly, thinks are not ok, we are all going to pretend it is ok and suck it up. Not ok imo. He is an alcoholic. The consequences of that are that sometimes he does not get to trample over other peoples lives and make a mess of it. It has nothing to do with love. The OP can love her dad, and love him dearly. But she does not have to harm herself, or her children, in the process. She can back away at those times. And protect her family. And this is one of those times.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

I'd go without him even if he does call and comes over apparently sober. He's an alcoholic. He's drinking. He cannot be trusted to keep a promise not to drink.

This...you are kidding yourself if you think just telling him he needs to be sober for the weekend will actually work.

He is an alcoholic! 

You already know he is not going to do what you asked..I say just deal with the driving yourself and be happier for not having to deal with your dad.

Don't get all co-dependent in this situation, he is not going to not drink. If I was with you in person i would say the same thing to your face because the idea that he might not drink over the weekend is just crazy.

[LynnS6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ldavis24 

Don't get all co-dependent in this situation, he is not going to not drink.

Yep. Active alcoholics are going to drink. When my mom's family did intervention for my uncle, they scheduled it at 8 am so as to 'catch him' before he'd had a drink. Well, they were wrong. He'd had a drink with breakfast. FWIW, he's been sober for 25 years now, but it took intervention, an inpatient program and a lot of hard work on his part. Your dad can't do that in 2 days. For your own sanity and safety, please drive without him. 

[Lisa1970]

You should completely cancel with him. Since he has been back to drinking, even if he did actually sober up for a few days for the trip, he will be cranky and sweaty and going through withdrawals. Plus, he might say he will sober up, but then still sneak drinks. Just do not take him at all.