Educational philosophies

[myjo]

I don't even know where to start with this.  I've got so many conflicting ideas in my head right now.  But I wanted to start a conversation about education in general because I've had to change completely what we are doing several times during the past 8 years I've had school aged children.  I've been rereading some John Taylor Gatto and Grace Lewellyn and a few others. 

So here are some questions  that have been floating around in my head:

What is your educational philosophy?

Why have you made the choices you've made (whether is RUS, US, homeschooling, PS, private school, or whatever)? 

Have you ever had to do a 180 in your thinking on education because of your kids' needs? 

Do you like the educational options that are available now, or could society provide much more and better choices?  

Are certain philosophies actually harmful, or are they just different and possibly good for certain types of people and not others? 

What role does personality type play in the educational choices we will make for ourselves and our children?  If anyone is knowledgeable on personality type theory, it would be great to discuss how it relates to education (either Myers-Briggs or Keirsey).   

More later, but I would love to see what you all think first.   

[Naturallove]

What is your educational philosophy?

I don't subscribe to any one person or groups philosophy. It has been my experience that trying to put us in a box of a particular school of thought just leads to frustration and disappointment. We borrow thoughts and ideas from many different philosophies from Waldorf to Classical to Unschooling.

Why have you made the choices you've made (whether is RUS, US, homeschooling, PS, private school, or whatever)?

We have chosen to homeschool because it fits with our vision for our family. We believe that our family should be the central focus of our children at this point in their lives. We also place a high value on education and believe that the education that we can provide at home is far superior to what they would get at public school. 

Have you ever had to do a 180 in your thinking on education because of your kids' needs?

Yes! When we started out I had just read WTM and was determined that we would be perfectly classical. Oh my gosh, what a disaster. My son did not respond to being taught that way and I hated teaching a 6 year old in such a dry and ridged manner. We junked that approach and have been much more flexible, laid back and HAPPIER since.

Do you like the educational options that are available now, or could society provide much more and better choices?  

I think that it is every parent's responsibility to provide their children with an education, not societies. This is not saying that I don't believe in the public school system. I just think that parents need to take responsibility for their child's education regardless of whether they choice to use PS, homeschool, or private school and not just place that responsibility on the school.

Are certain philosophies actually harmful, or are they just different and possibly good for certain types of people and not others? 

I think that any philosophy can be harmful if it is not a good fit for the student.

What role does personality type play in the educational choices we will make for ourselves and our children?  If anyone is knowledgeable on personality type theory, it would be great to discuss how it relates to education (either Myers-Briggs or Keirsey).

I am really analytical and I like to have the best and be the best in everything and if I do something I want to know I am doing it right. This is what lead me to initially try the Classical approach. However, I am also very artistic and a free thinker which is why I didn't enjoy it. I think the approach that ends up working is one that the parent/teacher can tolerate and that is a good match with the students interests and personality. DS1 is very active and very very high energy so trying to get him to sit down and do 4 or 5 hours of classical schooling... Well, I may as well asked him to fly to the moon.

[sarahamber]

I just try to lead by example and try to teach or rather encourage my kids to choose their behaviour\attitude with choices or questions that help them conclude answers...and I try to praise their 'good' behaviour...and also compliment them a lot..  "I know how clever you are, I'm sure you can do that if you give it a go" etc.   I try to provide good healthy toys and limit the 'bad influences" which is hard but if they are exposed to things I chat to them about why I might find some things questionable...I try not to be firmly stuck on my own opinions though.

Here is a great doll I want for my daughter. http://thebreastmilkbaby.com/contest/ambersmumma   She might not decide to breastfeed but I can hope that she will want to.  

[myjo]

My comments are in bold below:

Originally Posted by Naturallove 

What is your educational philosophy?

I don't subscribe to any one person or groups philosophy. It has been my experience that trying to put us in a box of a particular school of thought just leads to frustration and disappointment. We borrow thoughts and ideas from many different philosophies from Waldorf to Classical to Unschooling.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  I've tried sticking to one philosophy or another at different times, but I've found that no one particular philosophy works for every child or every parent.

Why have you made the choices you've made (whether is RUS, US, homeschooling, PS, private school, or whatever)?

We have chosen to homeschool because it fits with our vision for our family. We believe that our family should be the central focus of our children at this point in their lives. We also place a high value on education and believe that the education that we can provide at home is far superior to what they would get at public school. 

Have you ever had to do a 180 in your thinking on education because of your kids' needs?

Yes! When we started out I had just read WTM and was determined that we would be perfectly classical. Oh my gosh, what a disaster. My son did not respond to being taught that way and I hated teaching a 6 year old in such a dry and ridged manner. We junked that approach and have been much more flexible, laid back and HAPPIER since.

Me too.  I was very much enamored with the unschooling philosophy when I first started.  I just did not anticipate the philosophy not working for us, but it didn't.  Not entirely anyway.  I still believe that it's a superior way to learn, just not the only way.  And sometimes kids simply won't ever be dying to learn the things that I believe are important for them to know.  I do have an agenda for their education, and sometimes they resist.  But sometimes my teaching has inspired them to want to learn something they never even knew about before.

Do you like the educational options that are available now, or could society provide much more and better choices?  

I think that it is every parent's responsibility to provide their children with an education, not societies. This is not saying that I don't believe in the public school system. I just think that parents need to take responsibility for their child's education regardless of whether they choice to use PS, homeschool, or private school and not just place that responsibility on the school.

I agree that it is every parent's responsibility to provide a good education for their kids.  The only problem is that homeschooling is simply not an option for some families due to economic constraints, or other concerns.  But why should public school be the only other option?  Public school is a very unhealthy environment in many cases.  I really don't have a fleshed out idea of what alternatives I think there should be, but I do wish there was more and better than what we have now. 

Are certain philosophies actually harmful, or are they just different and possibly good for certain types of people and not others? 

I think that any philosophy can be harmful if it is not a good fit for the student.

I agree.  And I also think any philosophy can be harmful if taken too far.  I remember begging my parents to allow me to homeschool when I was in 9th grade because I was deeply depressed from the dismal environment of my school.  I felt so desperate to be free of it that I would have done almost anything.  That's going too far with public school.  Unschooling can also be taken too far, especially if the kids themselves are so bored that they want to spend hours of their time playing video games and not much else.  I've heard of unschooling kids begging for some structure and discipline.  Even homeschooling can become unbalanced in different ways.  Balance is important in anything we undertake to do.

What role does personality type play in the educational choices we will make for ourselves and our children?  If anyone is knowledgeable on personality type theory, it would be great to discuss how it relates to education (either Myers-Briggs or Keirsey).

I am really analytical and I like to have the best and be the best in everything and if I do something I want to know I am doing it right. This is what lead me to initially try the Classical approach. However, I am also very artistic and a free thinker which is why I didn't enjoy it. I think the approach that ends up working is one that the parent/teacher can tolerate and that is a good match with the students interests and personality. DS1 is very active and very very high energy so trying to get him to sit down and do 4 or 5 hours of classical schooling... Well, I may as well asked him to fly to the moon.

I'm definitely the artistic free thinker type (Myers Briggs type INFJ).  I've tried unschooling, structured homeschooling, public schooling, and relaxed eclectic homeschooling with elements of different philosophies, including unschooling.  The last one worked best because it allowed for the most creativity, but satisfied my feeling that certain things are very important for my kids to learn.  I do want them to be well rounded individuals, but I think that there are ways to help them learn important subjects without be coersive or hardnosed about it.

[Mittsy]

Originally Posted by myjo 

What is your educational philosophy?

Waldorf

Why have you made the choices you've made (whether is RUS, US, homeschooling, PS, private school, or whatever)? 

It's the best fit.

Have you ever had to do a 180 in your thinking on education because of your kids' needs? 

Yes and more than once too! At first we went with unit studies, BFIAR to be exact, but none of the info could be retained, and dd(6) likes to take things slowly. So, then we tried Montessori, which had always interested me, but it was too much work/preparation, too little play dd hated it! Then we checked into Waldorf, and it has been a much better fit than Montessori!

Do you like the educational options that are available now, or could society provide much more and better choices?

I agree with naturallove here!

Are certain philosophies actually harmful, or are they just different and possibly good for certain types of people and not others? 

I agree with the pp's, anything can be harmful in excess.

What role does personality type play in the educational choices we will make for ourselves and our children?  If anyone is knowledgeable on personality type theory, it would be great to discuss how it relates to education (either Myers-Briggs or Keirsey).  

I'm a ENFJ. I'm analytical, a planner... and that's what drew me to unit studies. But, this isn't my education here it's the kid's so I kind of have to follow their leads here! And, dd is more of a fly by the seat of her pants, do things when she gets around to it, very into nature...  We're doing Christopherus now which meets my planning needs, and dd's nature/imaginative/arts loves, it's a great fit:)

[myjo]

We're doing Christopherus now which meets my planning needs, and dd's nature/imaginative/arts loves, it's a great fit:)

What is Christopherus?  Forgive my ignorance, I haven't been around the boards much lately. 

[Mittsy]

http://www.christopherushomeschool.org/home.html

[Lakeeffectsnow]

What is your educational philosophy?

I've been a huge fan of US since I was a teenager and I read "The Teenage Liberation Handbook".  I've wanted to US my kids since then.  Unfortunately, my kids haven't thrived with US.  Until recently, I would have said two of my kids thrived US, both they have both recently told us that isn't true.  I'm struggling to reconcile my ideals with reality (sorry, I'm having a serious identity crisis).   I guess my current philosophy is child led learning, or child hitting mother over the head and yelling "This isn't working for me, Mom!" learning.

Why have you made the choices you've made (whether is RUS, US, homeschooling, PS, private school, or whatever)? 

I read a book when I was fifteen.

Have you ever had to do a 180 in your thinking on education because of your kids' needs? 

It was clear when Oldest Son was 8 years old that US wasn't working for him.  He always been a person who thrived on routine, structure, and clear expectations.  Since, I married DH (Oldest Son is my stepson), Oldest Son has asked for "school work" and rules.  Once we realized US wasn't working and started using a curriculum and one and one instruction, he has taken off.  It's almost as if he need those rules to push back on and set himself free.  

Youngest Son has ADHD and he's gifted.  He needs a very structured and very active day.  He's the kind of kid who if left to his own devices will dismantle the computer, break the art project his sister has worked for two weeks, and then cry for hours wracked with guilt and remorse.  I've never tried to US him.  He's up by 7am, by 930 has had breakfast, is bathed, dressed and finished most of his work.  He does on line curriculum for 930 to 10am, plays with his older brother/watches a movie/ does a joint science or history project until 1100 or 1130.  Then he eats lunch, DH takes him to his daily activity (home school swim, hs gymnastics, or hs martial arts) and then at 215pm, DH drops him off at the YMCA for a three hour after school program.  He get doesn't home until 530pm.

Until very recently, Oldest Daughter and Middle Son were unschooled.  But, after much angst, tears and drama, we found out Oldest Daughter hates being US, generally feels unloved because of our lack of structure and rules.  Middle Son has told us the same thing in a much gentler way.  We are currently in the process of figuring out what they need educationally and how to give them the structure they feel they need.

So basically, over the years we've gone from radical unschooling to home schooling to school at home,  It's hard for me to let go of my dream of us, but I want what is best for my kids.  Since we've been making the transition to home schooling for the all the kids, we all seem calmer and more at peace.

Do you like the educational options that are available now, or could society provide much more and better choices?  

I just glad I'm in the financial position to home school my kids.  It's very clear to me that school would be very hard to some of my kids.  I'm glad the public school option is available.

Are certain philosophies actually harmful, or are they just different and possibly good for certain types of people and not others? 

I hope clinging to my philosophy has adversely effected my kids.  I don't want to cling to an ideal at the cost of my kids' well being.

What role does personality type play in the educational choices we will make for ourselves and our children?  If anyone is knowledgeable on personality type theory, it would be great to discuss how it relates to education (either Myers-Briggs or Keirsey).   

  Yikes, it's been years since I took my psychology classes.  I'll have to refresh my knowledge and get back to you.

 

 

[myjo]

Thank you for the link Mittsey!

Originally Posted by Lakeeffectsnow 

What is your educational philosophy?

I've been a huge fan of US since I was a teenager and I read "The Teenage Liberation Handbook".  I've wanted to US my kids since then.  Unfortunately, my kids haven't thrived with US.  Until recently, I would have said two of my kids thrived US, both they have both recently told us that isn't true.  I'm struggling to reconcile my ideals with reality (sorry, I'm having a serious identity crisis).   I guess my current philosophy is child led learning, or child hitting mother over the head and yelling "This isn't working for me, Mom!" learning.

I had a similar experience with DS1.  He just really needs structure.  In fact, he loves PS, but I have him home right now because his school is one the worste in the state and I feel I can do a much better job without all the social drama.  I tried US with him and it was a disaster.  Even DS2, who is much more of an original thinker and quite independent, does appreciate some planning and effort on my part.  I sort of mix it up actually.  I really try to encourage them to follow their interests and learn on their own as much as possible, but I'm definitely not a strict unschooler.  We use curriculum on a regular basis. 

Why have you made the choices you've made (whether is RUS, US, homeschooling, PS, private school, or whatever)? 

I read a book when I was fifteen.

Have you ever had to do a 180 in your thinking on education because of your kids' needs? 

It was clear when Oldest Son was 8 years old that US wasn't working for him.  He always been a person who thrived on routine, structure, and clear expectations.  Since, I married DH (Oldest Son is my stepson), Oldest Son has asked for "school work" and rules.  Once we realized US wasn't working and started using a curriculum and one and one instruction, he has taken off.  It's almost as if he need those rules to push back on and set himself free.  

Youngest Son has ADHD and he's gifted.  He needs a very structured and very active day.  He's the kind of kid who if left to his own devices will dismantle the computer, break the art project his sister has worked for two weeks, and then cry for hours wracked with guilt and remorse.  I've never tried to US him.  He's up by 7am, by 930 has had breakfast, is bathed, dressed and finished most of his work.  He does on line curriculum for 930 to 10am, plays with his older brother/watches a movie/ does a joint science or history project until 1100 or 1130.  Then he eats lunch, DH takes him to his daily activity (home school swim, hs gymnastics, or hs martial arts) and then at 215pm, DH drops him off at the YMCA for a three hour after school program.  He get doesn't home until 530pm.

Until very recently, Oldest Daughter and Middle Son were unschooled.  But, after much angst, tears and drama, we found out Oldest Daughter hates being US, generally feels unloved because of our lack of structure and rules.  Middle Son has told us the same thing in a much gentler way.  We are currently in the process of figuring out what they need educationally and how to give them the structure they feel they need.

So basically, over the years we've gone from radical unschooling to home schooling to school at home,  It's hard for me to let go of my dream of us, but I want what is best for my kids.  Since we've been making the transition to home schooling for the all the kids, we all seem calmer and more at peace.

It's so hard to make peace with yourself when your long cherished ideals and beliefs turn out not to work for your family!  Especially when you've recieved judgement from from others, such as school authorities (as in my case) about choices you've made based on your best reasoning and the best of intentions.

Do you like the educational options that are available now, or could society provide much more and better choices?  

I just glad I'm in the financial position to home school my kids.  It's very clear to me that school would be very hard to some of my kids.  I'm glad the public school option is available.

I just wish that there were publicly funded schools with no agenda, where the administrators and teachers were free to teach as they see fit.  Something like charter schools except better.  Maybe a little like 70's style freeschools, but with more structure for the kids who need it. 

Are certain philosophies actually harmful, or are they just different and possibly good for certain types of people and not others? 

I hope clinging to my philosophy has adversely effected my kids.  I don't want to cling to an ideal at the cost of my kids' well being.

Intellectual freedom can't do too much damage can it?  I'm sure your kids will be fine, and will probably race ahead as you adjust the way that their education is provided.

What role does personality type play in the educational choices we will make for ourselves and our children?  If anyone is knowledgeable on personality type theory, it would be great to discuss how it relates to education (either Myers-Briggs or Keirsey).   

  Yikes, it's been years since I took my psychology classes.  I'll have to refresh my knowledge and get back to you.

  I guess I might have to go over to personality cafe for this one! 

 

 

[mom2ponygirl]

What is your educational philosophy?

 We want our daughter to enjoy learning and have a solid background that would prepare her for college, perhaps even a highly selective college, if she should chose that path.  We want the choices we make to not limit her future options, but also not stifle her love of learning and creativity. We assess continually and adjust our choices accordingly.  

Why have you made the choices you've made (whether is RUS, US, homeschooling, PS, private school, or whatever)? 

Our daughter went to preschool and K at a local Montessori.  The program was good for primary but had serious flaws for elementary levels.  We also missed our time with our daughter and looked for ways to increase our family time.  Her birthday was 10 days past the public school cut-off.  We experienced how inflexible they were going to be when we investigated the possibility of our 10 days too young girl starting 1st instead of K.  She was reading thick chapter books (like the Harry Potter series and The Hobbit) and doing double digit multiplication by then.  It was obvious that the public school was not a great fit and that we would be in full advocating mode all the time.  We decided to try homeschooling at that point.  We started with school at home (K12) and rapidly realized that wasn't a great fit either.  We rapidly became more relaxed, eclectic homeschoolers, giving our daughter the chance to chose what she wanted to study and how.  Until recently, she has chosen to do things in a fairly traditional manner.  She would take a few online classes, pick some curriculum that we would change as needed, etc.  At 10, she tried half-time school at a local charter high school.  She was 10 turning 11, and taking high school classes.  She enjoyed the kids, even if they were several years older,  and two of her classes.  The pace was still too slow and lacked the depth she craved so she came back to homeschooling.  She is now 12.5.  She has chosen more of a US path at present.  She still does a couple online classes but has been carving out more time for projects.  She loves having time for her art and music.  She has written a script for an animated film, recruited voice 'actors' from her local friends and long distance friends from online classes.  She has been diligently learning to use various tools for animating, and working on composing the soundtrack.  She is also currently trying to build a model of a horse using memory wire to work like the muscles do in real life.  She is hacking a hexbot from Radio Shack to figure out the circuits for controlling her 'robot'.  She is researching a science project that involves modifying a microbial fuel cell.  She is also planning on painting a mural in her room, and on our horse trailer.  She has a discarded car hood to practice her automobile painting on first. :-)  Very few of these projects would happen if she were busy in school all day.  It worried me at first that as she enters the age of collecting high school credits for college, she is veering into a more US'ing lifestyle.  But, how else can she do such cool things?  If she can't explore now, when will be the time?  

Have you ever had to do a 180 in your thinking on education because of your kids' needs? 

Yes, having a child that didn't fit the age/grade lockstep had us rethinking education.  Some things come so easily to her but others are very difficult.  I don't think traditional school would have challenged her enough to enable her to work on her areas of difficulty - mostly executive function type issues.  I think she would have made it through with good grades and gone to college totally unprepared for a real challenge, and totally unprepared for dealing with life after school.  I originally did not think a US'ing approach would work for our family.  We have slowly evolved into it and while I think she needed structure when she was younger (and still likes a little in the form of online classes she chooses), I think US'ing gives her the room to investigate how she wants her life to look, and make mistakes that are hers to fix, and gives her the confidence that she can fix them. 

Do you like the educational options that are available now, or could society provide much more and better choices?  

 I would love a school and/or co-op situation filled with kids who are eager to learn and explore.  A place where kids have access to resources and mentors to help them in projects of their choosing would be awesome.  We haven't found much of that in our area.  

Are certain philosophies actually harmful, or are they just different and possibly good for certain types of people and not others? 

I think anytime you try and make the child fit the philosophy you are headed for trouble.  I think kids tell you what they need, and your job is to learn to listen and adjust as needed.  I think radical unschooling works great for some families and traditional school works great for others.  Choices anywhere along that spectrum can also really suck for many families. :-)  I think you find what works for you and be open to changing as time goes along.

[myjo]

I would love a school and/or co-op situation filled with kids who are eager to learn and explore.  A place where kids have access to resources and mentors to help them in projects of their choosing would be awesome.  We haven't found much of that in our area.  

I guess that's something like what I've been wanting too.  I have some really social kids, and I think that's the reason they want to do PS, not for the academics.  They seem to learn well in a group setting though.  I sure wish something like that was available here.  I'm thinking I'll have to be the one to start it if it's going to happen. 

It does me good to hear other's comments about this.  It makes me feel validated in my choices.  I tend to be rather susceptible to other people's ideas and philosophies, but I know in my heart we have to do what is right for us.