Need help getting DH on board with avoiding Disney and licensed characters

[CrunchyMama74]

Hi Mamas,

It is a priority for me that my DD not be exposed to Disney, elmo etc. and my dh doesn't seem to understand where I am coming from. I've explained how I feel like licensed characters in general stunt creative play, how I detest all the cross marketing, but he doesn't really seem to get it. He was raised on Disney. Does anyone else have experience with this? Are there any websites that are helpful? TIA!

[NellieKatz]

I can't think of a better place to start than here:

http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/

Then there are the books, "Consuming Kids" and "Born to Buy"

The argument that "I was raised on [fill in the blank, from eating meat or sugary cereals, to attending public school, to watching TV or enjoying Disney] so it must be OK" is a false argument, because SO MUCH HAS CHANGED since then!! The advertising deregulation in the 1980's, the mergers that have led to the giant conglomerates, the cross-marketing between industries, the licensing crap, the obesity epidemic and the role of fast food/movie/crappy toy tie-in, the sudden surge in high fructose corn syrup, food additives that harm health & change kids' behavior, the commercialization of schools, the explosion of vaccines that modern kids have to get at the same time, earlier in their lives, the ADHD & autism & cancer rises.... bla bla bla......these issues all sound unrelated but what these things all have in common is that things that our kids are facing are NOT the same as when we grew up and we can't let people just dismiss our concerns with that one simplistic throw-away comment.

I'd say more but it's after midnight and I need to go to bed. That web site will give you a lot of info in the Resources section (articles)

Good luck! I'm with ya!

[graceshappymum]

I would seriously recommend "Cinderella ate my Daughter". It is a wonderful book and might open your DH eyes to the insidious marketing that is especially pointed at girls.

Good luck!

[St. Margaret]

I think Reclaiming Childhood is another book with info about how it changes play for the worse.

That said we avoided for the first three years or so and then just kids clothes at the park had taught dd all the characters, or books at the library I couldnt always steer dd away from, and we have watched some PBS kids on sick days and very select Disney movies now on movie nights. But we still have rules about not wearing them etc and it's balanced nicely and dd is so creative. Even with mil totally sabotaging our efforts by sneaking every lousy PBS cartoon to dd while supposedly having dd over to spend time and also buying every plastic junky tinkerbell toy lol. They stay at Grandma's house and dd plays tink at home by actually building machines out of craft supplies and blocks and such. And we finally got through to mil about the excessive tv So even if dh exposes her to some all is not lost. But I think it should be up to each set of parents how much to allow bc just willy nilly tends to be really limiting.

[gbailey]

How old is your DD, OP? Honestly and gently, why do you have to convince him of anything? Can you imagine if he got a book to convince you that your beliefs regarding Disney/marketing were wrong and parents who don't allow characters are depriving their children? Seriously. Why can't you both win? Maybe no character items until a certain age and then not go overboard with it? You can't come up with a compromise that works for you both?

You detest marketing but he doesn't. As parents, I think it's important to come up with a fair compromise when we have disagreements about how or what we want our children exposed to. DH and I don't always agree on parenting styles or what or when we want our DD exposed to this or that but just as much as I'm our daughters mother, he's our daughters father.

I used to think he bought her too much Dora related stuff but our DD is his kid too and if it makes her father happy to buy her a Dora coloring book I think it's unfair to gripe about it. My point is, you are both the parents and can come up with a compromise that suits you both while still respecting the other persons feelings and beliefs.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by gbailey 

How old is your DD, OP? Honestly and gently, why do you have to convince him of anything? Can you imagine if he got a book to convince you that your beliefs regarding Disney/marketing were wrong and parents who don't allow characters are depriving their children? Seriously. Why can't you both win? Maybe no character items until a certain age and then not go overboard with it? You can't come up with a compromise that works for you both?

You detest marketing but he doesn't. As parents, I think it's important to come up with a fair compromise when we have disagreements about how or what we want our children exposed to. DH and I don't always agree on parenting styles or what or when we want our DD exposed to this or that but just as much as I'm our daughters mother, he's our daughters father.

I used to think he bought her too much Dora related stuff but our DD is his kid too and if it makes her father happy to buy her a Dora coloring book I think it's unfair to gripe about it. My point is, you are both the parents and can come up with a compromise that suits you both while still respecting the other persons feelings and beliefs.

Yes, I think you need to think of both points through thoroughly. Although I'm sure you don't mean it this way, you are telling him, in essence, the stuff he loved as a child is terrible. If he has fond memories of it, he will be thinking of this stuff emotionally.

By all means, point out the marketing aspect of it. I'd also point out to him that a lot of Disney stuff for kids is poorly made and expensive. A bad combination. Their clothes tend to have a lot of synthetic fibers and the few things we were given made my dd hot and itchy. But there are a lot of differences you're going to have as parents, how much does this mean to you?

You might be able to find a position of moderation. Maybe no clothes. Or no Disney movies until age X. My kids have been exposed to a little Disney, but we don't watch the movies. Dd got a princess coloring book/sticker book and read a few of the Tinkerbell chapter books. She was not entranced by them. So a little exposure to Disney has not stifled her creativity or imagination. She doesn't want Disney or Barbie stuff. They're boring.

And at the risk of contradicting myself, you might also think about making your campaign broader. I object to my children (or to me) wearing shirts that advertise for companies. I try not to buy Gap and Old Navy, for example, especially when their logos are prominently displayed. If they want me to advertise for them, they can pay me. Your dh might have an easier time seeing the point if it's not just Disney focused.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

Yes, I think you need to think of both points through thoroughly. Although I'm sure you don't mean it this way, you are telling him, in essence, the stuff he loved as a child is terrible. If he has fond memories of it, he will be thinking of this stuff emotionally.

By all means, point out the marketing aspect of it. I'd also point out to him that a lot of Disney stuff for kids is poorly made and expensive. A bad combination. Their clothes tend to have a lot of synthetic fibers and the few things we were given made my dd hot and itchy. But there are a lot of differences you're going to have as parents, how much does this mean to you?

You might be able to find a position of moderation. Maybe no clothes. Or no Disney movies until age X. My kids have been exposed to a little Disney, but we don't watch the movies. Dd got a princess coloring book/sticker book and read a few of the Tinkerbell chapter books. She was not entranced by them. So a little exposure to Disney has not stifled her creativity or imagination. She doesn't want Disney or Barbie stuff. They're boring.

And at the risk of contradicting myself, you might also think about making your campaign broader. I object to my children (or to me) wearing shirts that advertise for companies. I try not to buy Gap and Old Navy, for example, especially when their logos are prominently displayed. If they want me to advertise for them, they can pay me. Your dh might have an easier time seeing the point if it's not just Disney focused.

I agree with all this..

I guess I fall into the middle ground because I am so not a huge fan of the "princess" aspect of disney but I totally love some of their movies, at the moment DD is watching Finding Nemo and it is her favorite...We also are big fans of sesame street in this house. 

We only allow a few movies, Nemo, Ratatouille, all 3 toy stories and then sesame street...DH is comfortable with this and so am I...Originally I was super militant about no commercialization of our precious child and then I realized that I would be making a bigger deal out of the whole thing than if we just were very very picky about what we allowed her to be exposed to...No clothes etc that are disney disney disney (although she has an elmo lovey that she adores) and no cartoons of any kind on TV...In fact we don't like the TV for her at all, except for Sesame...The commercials are SO OBNOXIOUS....So we would prefer if it is the end of the day and she wants to watch a movie while I nurse her before bed we allow it, we can control it and no commercials..

If I were your DH, I would be feeling pretty hurt that as the PPs said you basically said his childhood was WRONG WRONG WRONG...I don't see how he would be very receptive to you when it is coming from that angle...You are both the parents, he has the right to say he disagrees with you. It isn't a matter of who can win over the other person, gotta find that middle ground. For us we found it and I am confident DD is not going to be destroyed by watching the few movies we let her and seeing sesame street. A show whose messages are along the lines of, sharing is good, outdoors are wonderful, being kind is a good thing, eating veggies is good too! How can I argue with that.

Now Dora, well ,if Dora ever so much as shows her stupid little head in this house I am going to give her the boot real quickly...I cannot stand that kind of stuff...no princesses, no cartoon tv shows and NO DORA!

[Magali]

I agree with the pp's who say you should consider your dh'd point of view.  I've btdt with my dh and you know what?  They have a really good time with all their commercial Disney characters.  My dh grew up with lots of tv etc...and we have talked about it and he sayd that if we barr our kids from the things he grew up with, it is like saying he had a crap childhood.  And he swears up and down that he turned out just fine .   I'd like to think that even though both dh and I grew up with Disney, we are free thinking adults, whose lives have been shaped by more than Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse.  That being said, Dora and Diego are not welcome in our house hahaha...but only because they are super annoying.  Thank goodness my ds never developed a liking for them!!

[NellieKatz]

It was stated that "if we bar our kids from the things he [DH] grew up with, it is like saying he had a crap childhood."

The point is that he DIDN'T grow up with what the kids today have to face. There's a small similarity in that the name "Disney" is attached to it, but to assume that it's the same situation now as when we grew up is, I believe, to be potentially naive. Unless you guys are real young and perhaps all the de-regulation and all that really HAD already taken place by the time he watched it. But I know that I (I'm 51, with an 8-yr old son) grew up with a Disney experience that was 180 degrees opposite what Disney is now. When I grew up, the name Disney meant creative, quality programming. We watched it every Sunday night and have fond memories of that more innocent time. It's a different world.

I hope you will take a look at the articles on that page that I referred to up above. Here it is again:

http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/articles/home.htm

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by Magali 

I agree with the pp's who say you should consider your dh'd point of view.  I've btdt with my dh and you know what?  They have a really good time with all their commercial Disney characters.  My dh grew up with lots of tv etc...and we have talked about it and he sayd that if we barr our kids from the things he grew up with, it is like saying he had a crap childhood.  And he swears up and down that he turned out just fine .   I'd like to think that even though both dh and I grew up with Disney, we are free thinking adults, whose lives have been shaped by more than Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse.  That being said, Dora and Diego are not welcome in our house hahaha...but only because they are super annoying.  Thank goodness my ds never developed a liking for them!!

Ugh Diego too!! So annoying...I feel bad for those parents forced to suffer through those shows, and all that stuff that come along with it..

I just think it really isn't that hard to allow a little bit and moderate closely. How hard is it to say, hey this movie is OK but that doesn't mean you can go all crazy and have disney princess themed crapola all over the house. I know that anti-tv anti-disney sentiments are really popular on MDC, I guess that is how I am "less crunchy" in that I am confident in my ability to be picky with what aspects DD gets to be exposed to in regard to Disney stuff...

OP, I guess I don't understand why it is YOUR WAY or the highway? Why can't you reach a middle ground with your DH? I know some people think that being exposed to 1 second of a disney movie will forever maim their child (ok slight exaggeration but not really) but that really isn't true.  It could be a special thing for your DH and LO to share, special movie night with daddy or something...

[choli]

Originally Posted by CrunchyMama74 

Hi Mamas,

It is a priority for me that my DD not be exposed to Disney, elmo etc. and my dh doesn't seem to understand where I am coming from. I've explained how I feel like licensed characters in general stunt creative play, how I detest all the cross marketing, but he doesn't really seem to get it. He was raised on Disney. Does anyone else have experience with this? Are there any websites that are helpful? TIA!

It's not that he "doesn't get it", it's that he does not agree with you. As the other posters have said, find common ground rather than trying to force your DH into submission to your ideals. Dismissing his opinions as "not getting it" is totally disrespectful.

 

[oaktreemama]

The point is that he DIDN'T grow up with what the kids today have to face. 

This is so true. I am with you OP. When Reagan allowed deregulation of children's television he opened the door to a veritable onslaught of advertising and brand name merchandising to be directly aimed at our kids. And the chief offender is Disney.

They are not interested in entertaining our children-they are interested in tattooing a Mickey Mouse logo/bar code on every child's body. Now, I know that is a bit Orwellian, but they are out there to teach children to become mass consumers of brand name merchandise. And I won't stand for it and I won't allow my son to be exposed to mass marketing he has neither the capability to understand, nor the resistance to refuse the allure.

When your husband was a young boy, Disney enterntained him-they didn't instruct him to nag his parents to drive him to the mall to buy MIC plastic crap. They didn't put Mickey on everything from underwear to sippy cups. They didn't do tie ins with appalling fast food restaurants. They didn't have Disney stores selling poorly made and super expensive clothing. They didn't make Movie I, II, III, IV, etc.

And this extends to almost all children's programming on Nick as well-we do not watch Nick here. TV is closely regulated.

It is impossible to avoid entirely, especially if like me you have a child in daycare. But, I can ensure it stays at daycare, and does not ever cross our threshold.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by NellieKatz 

It was stated that "if we bar our kids from the things he [DH] grew up with, it is like saying he had a crap childhood."

The point is that he DIDN'T grow up with what the kids today have to face. There's a small similarity in that the name "Disney" is attached to it, but to assume that it's the same situation now as when we grew up is, I believe, to be potentially naive. Unless you guys are real young and perhaps all the de-regulation and all that really HAD already taken place by the time he watched it. But I know that I (I'm 51, with an 8-yr old son) grew up with a Disney experience that was 180 degrees opposite what Disney is now. When I grew up, the name Disney meant creative, quality programming. We watched it every Sunday night and have fond memories of that more innocent time. It's a different world.

Um, I'm 30. I was born in 1980, so yes by the time I was watching much, it was after de-regulation. I think a significant number of mothers here with infants and toddlers were raised after that time. You are actually older than *my* mother. Granted, she was young (18) when I was born, but maybe that helps put your comments about everyone's childhood into some type of perspective.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

Um, I'm 30. I was born in 1980, so yes by the time I was watching much, it was after de-regulation. I think a significant number of mothers here with infants and toddlers were raised after that time. You are actually older than *my* mother. Granted, she was young (18) when I was born, but maybe that helps put your comments about everyone's childhood into some type of perspective.

agreed, born in 86 here... 

i just googled the whole reagan deregulation thing because I had never heard of it

[HollyBearsMom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oaktreemama 
This is so true. I am with you OP. When Reagan allowed deregulation of children's television he opened the door to a veritable onslaught of advertising and brand name merchandising to be directly aimed at our kids. And the chief offender is Disney.

They are not interested in entertaining our children-they are interested in tattooing a Mickey Mouse logo/bar code on every child's body. Now, I know that is a bit Orwellian, but they are out there to teach children to become mass consumers of brand name merchandise. And I won't stand for it and I won't allow my son to be exposed to mass marketing he has neither the capability to understand, nor the resistance to refuse the allure.

When your husband was a young boy, Disney enterntained him-they didn't instruct him to nag his parents to drive him to the mall to buy MIC plastic crap. They didn't put Mickey on everything from underwear to sippy cups. They didn't do tie ins with appalling fast food restaurants. They didn't have Disney stores selling poorly made and super expensive clothing. They didn't make Movie I, II, III, IV, etc.

And this extends to almost all children's programming on Nick as well-we do not watch Nick here. TV is closely regulated.

It is impossible to avoid entirely, especially if like me you have a child in daycare. But, I can ensure it stays at daycare, and does not ever cross our threshold.

(disclaimer- my son justwrote a book report on DIsney)

Actually Walt Disney wrote the book on marketing to children. He took small cartoons and based on their success he made the first feature length cartoon (Snow White).  It made so much money he bought 100's of acres to build his studio.  He parlayed that in the original Mickey Mouse Club and soon after started selling all kinds of product tied to both to the show and the movies. But even before that Mickey Mouse themed products were creating marketing gold for Walt. 

http://www.pophistorydig.com/?tag=mickey-mouse

By 1935 Mickey Mouse and his friends had become a merchandising phenomenon. No less a cheerleader than the New York Times chronicled Mickey and Disney’s rising “multiplier role” in an otherwise bleak national economy. “New applause is heard for Mickey Mouse. . .”, wrote H.L. Robbins in the New York Times Magazine of March 1935.“The fresh cheering is for Mickey the Big Business Man, the world’s super-salesman. He finds work for jobless folk. He lifts corporations out of bank- ruptcy…” 

                         – The New York Times

                            March 1935 “The fresh cheering is for Mickey the Big Business Man, the world’s super-salesman. He finds work for jobless folk. He lifts corporations out of bankruptcy.  Wherever he scampers, here or overseas, the sun of prosperity breaks through the clouds.”

 

  Indeed, through the 1930s, Mickey Mouse merchandising exploded; hundreds of products were available across the country and around the world.  There were Mickey Mouse phonographs and radios; Mickey Mouse wrist-watches, satchels and briefcases.  There was also Mickey Mouse soap, candy, playing-cards, hairbrushes, chinaware, alarm clocks, hot-water bottles, table covers and napkins, Mickey Mouse biscuits and dairy, Mickey Mouse book-ends, and of course, Mickey Mouse music.  At least four publishers were then selling Mickey Mouse books, one of which in1934 had sold 2.4 million copies. Mickey Mouse pencils, paper, school notebooks, and tablets were sold by the million as well.  Food-product companies “hired” Mickey to sell breakfast cereal and also used Madison Avenue advertising to tout their new friend. In England there was Mickey Mouse marmalade.  New York’s Fifth Avenue sold Mickey Mouse charms and bracelets, some in gold and platinum, and a few with diamonds.  A Cartier diamond bracelet sold for $1,200. Some department stores used Mickey Mouse window displays, which could cost $25,000 for a single display.  By 1934, Mickey merchandise was earning about $600,000 a year.

My mother remembered clearly begging for  minnie mouse watch when she was young girl, my sister would have killed for the luggage. 

[oaktreemama]

Deregulation happened in 1984, but it took some time to really build up steam. Dismissing it's impact on today's children because you grew up with it to misses the point. 

Children today aren't any more prepared to deal with the onslaught then we were (and it wasn't even that bad yet). Secondly, the sheer number of available channels dwarfs what was available to me in the '80's. Finally, the advertisements don't stop at TV-they are on billboards, on computers, at school, playgrounds, airports, and doctor's offices.

There is simply no comparision when I was growing up to what is happening today to our children. 

[oaktreemama]

Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom 

Quote:

(disclaimer- my son justwrote a book report on DIsney)

Actually Walt Disney wrote the book on marketing to children. He took small cartoons and based on their success he made the first feature length cartoon (Snow White).  It made so much money he bought 100's of acres to build his studio.  He parlayed that in the original Mickey Mouse Club and soon after started selling all kinds of product tied to both to the show and the movies. But even before that Mickey Mouse themed products were creating marketing gold for Walt. 

http://www.pophistorydig.com/?tag=mickey-mouse

My mother remembered clearly begging for  minnie mouse watch when she was young girl, my sister would have killed for the luggage. 

Ugh. I had no idea it was that insidious even back then. I mean I remember Mickey Mouse ears and such but that is about it.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by oaktreemama 

Deregulation happened in 1984, but it took some time to really build up steam. Dismissing it's impact on today's children because you grew up with it to misses the point. 

Children today aren't any more prepared to deal with the onslaught then we were (and it wasn't even that bad yet). Secondly, the sheer number of available channels dwarfs what was available to me in the '80's. Finally, the advertisements don't stop at TV-they are on billboards, on computers, at school, playgrounds, airports, and doctor's offices.

There is simply no comparision when I was growing up to what is happening today to our children. 

Originally Posted by NellieKatz 

The point is that he DIDN'T grow up with what the kids today have to face.

I agree that the marketing is much more insidious today than it was when I was a kid (another pre-deregulation mom here). However, I think that it is possible for parents to regulate this stuff. Regulating is different from banning. For the OP, since her husband has very fond memories of Disney, I think that's a more realistic approach.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

I agree that the marketing is much more insidious today than it was when I was a kid (another pre-deregulation mom here). However, I think that it is possible for parents to regulate this stuff. Regulating is different from banning. For the OP, since her husband has very fond memories of Disney, I think that's a more realistic approach.

ok thank you! I feel like I am the only one who thinks it is possible to REGULATE yourself what your kid is exposed to. I get that Disney is this all encompassing company that wants to destroy our children by marketing everything they will ever use in their life....BUT there are some really cool things that Disney does, like I don't know...make awesome movies periodically...

I think there is a huge difference between letting your kid watch hours of cartoons (with all the horrible ads) on Saturday mornings and letting a LO and daddy watch a movie once in a while...

It's like because Disney tries so hard to market to kids we can't let them enjoy anything that Disney has to offer? Or is it because people are so against the company in general that the kids aren't allowed to experience it at all?

I was fully immersed in all things Disney as a child and I feel like I turned into a pretty rational free-thinking mama. I am by far the most "out there" member of my own huge family and I was probably the most immersed in TV and all things Disney. 

OP I guess the bottom line is how much of a fight is it worth to you? I think you have totally disregarded your DH in the fact that he is also the PARENT....My DH hates when I make unilateral decisions about anything to do with DD....I get that you think it is super damaging to your kid to watch some Disney (or any tv or something, I feel like the 2 are getting intermingled) but you know what, it just isn't. There is a lot of hyperbole going on here. Your DH has every right as a parent to your child to say, " You know what honey, I disagree, I don't think watching a Disney movie is going to be horrible because I know we as parents can regulate and just NOT BUY all the crap that comes along with the Disney movies."

I am missing the part where just because you watch some Disney it means you have to run out and buy every single thing that Disney markets. 

[Magali]

Originally Posted by NellieKatz 

It was stated that "if we bar our kids from the things he [DH] grew up with, it is like saying he had a crap childhood."

The point is that he DIDN'T grow up with what the kids today have to face. There's a small similarity in that the name "Disney" is attached to it, but to assume that it's the same situation now as when we grew up is, I believe, to be potentially naive. Unless you guys are real young and perhaps all the de-regulation and all that really HAD already taken place by the time he watched it. But I know that I (I'm 51, with an 8-yr old son) grew up with a Disney experience that was 180 degrees opposite what Disney is now. When I grew up, the name Disney meant creative, quality programming. We watched it every Sunday night and have fond memories of that more innocent time. It's a different world.

I hope you will take a look at the articles on that page that I referred to up above. Here it is again:

http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/articles/home.htm

 We have introduced our kids to things we like and things that we want to share with them.  I don't think my kids are exposed to any more than I was.  I'm 32 by the way.  In fact, because we don't watch tv (because of commercials and because most of it is complete mindless drivel) and live simply in a remote area my kids have seen far fewer commercials than I did during my childhood.  We are Canadian too, if that makes any difference. Just because I don't censor licensed characters doesn't mean I am naive. Around here it is all about regulating and compromise.  Meh, this isn't a hill I want to die on.  We all do what is best for our families.  Just don't presume to know what my life is all about because I buy my kid Toy Story sippy cups.  I'm actually kinda crunchy :P.

Edited by Magali - 3/29/11 at 12:34pm