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Need help getting DH on board with avoiding Disney and licensed characters - Page 2

post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magali View Post

 We have introduced our kids to things we like and things that we want to share with them.  I don't think my kids are exposed to any more than I was.  I'm 32 by the way.  In fact, because we don't watch tv and live simply in a remote area my kids have seen far fewer commercials than I did during my childhood.  Just because I don't censor licensed characters doesn't mean I am naive. Around here it is all about regulating and compromise.  Meh, this isn't a hill I want to die on.  We all do what is best for our families.  Just don't presume to know what my life is all about because I buy my kid Toy Story sippy cups.  I'm actually kinda crunchy :P.


I agree.

 

NellieKatz, many, if not most, MDC mamas are probably aware of sites like commercialfreechildhood -- it's a frequent topic of discussion here, and this is a pretty informed group of parents. It's possible to be aware of the counter-argument and still choose to allow the occasional Disney character into our homes. Having a difference of opinion doesn't mean that we need to be "educated" or swayed in the "right" direction, it just means that we feel differently about the topic than you do. 

 

Regarding the general issue, I'm in the middle. We enjoy several Disney movies, and we'll buy certain things with characters on them -- mostly consumables like notepads, stickers and the like. I don't like to buy more permanent things like t-shirts or backpacks with characters on them, or with any big logo/slogan on them (as someone upthread mentioned about The Gap and Old Navy). My kids' regulation/moderation comes from me and DH. 

post #22 of 47

reading through I do not see that anyone has said, and I am not trying to be antagonizing, that if you do not make it a big deal, it will not be one.  My example to further explain is; I do not ban.  Exposure is allowed and beleived in, in order for child led choices.  We watch TV, and have a planned trip to DL, our first.  However, we have never bought clothing with characters, and DD is not into princesses, even after watching snow white, cinderella, and others.  It is not a big part of our lives.  We do not talk about it a lot, and it has not become us.

 

To me, banning begets trouble, as an example, when a family banned sugar from thier kids in school when I was growing up, the older boy, taught the younger girl to steal sugar from other kids lunch boxes, and there was a fighting incident.

post #23 of 47

 

Quote:
reading through I do not see that anyone has said, and I am not trying to be antagonizing, that if you do not make it a big deal, it will not be one 

 

But to some of us it is a big deal.

 

Quote:
Exposure is allowed and beleived in, in order for child led choices. 

 

 

It is almost impossible for a child to be led anywhere other than down the rabbit hole so to speak. When we allow commerical TV like Disney, they are bombarded with pitches and products. That is not child led. That is advertiser led.

 

When my son is older and better able to process advertising and money and mass consumerism we will re-evaluate our stance. But for now, for our family, my dh and I feel very strongly that keeping Disney and the like out of our house is the right way to go.

 

 

 

 

post #24 of 47


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by laila2 View Post

reading through I do not see that anyone has said, and I am not trying to be antagonizing, that if you do not make it a big deal, it will not be one.  My example to further explain is; I do not ban.  Exposure is allowed and beleived in, in order for child led choices.  We watch TV, and have a planned trip to DL, our first.  However, we have never bought clothing with characters, and DD is not into princesses, even after watching snow white, cinderella, and others.  It is not a big part of our lives.  We do not talk about it a lot, and it has not become us.

 

To me, banning begets trouble, as an example, when a family banned sugar from thier kids in school when I was growing up, the older boy, taught the younger girl to steal sugar from other kids lunch boxes, and there was a fighting incident.


I was thinking the exact same thing.  Our next door neighbor growing up, Brittany, used to pay me for Kool-Aid when we were kids.  My mom didn't buy many sugary treats- usually if we had sweets they were homemade- but she did buy Kool-Aid, and because Kool-Aid was absolutely forbidden in Brittany's house, she ALWAYS wanted it and would do anything to get it.  

 

DH and I are definitely sensitive to childhood commercialization.  We don't buy Disney clothes or toys, and we don't have TV, but we let DS watch some Disney movies.  This morning he watched part of Stuart Little while I cleaned.  He loves that little mouse.  

 

OP- I understand if you don't want your child to have any Disney exposure, but if your DP thinks it's harmless, then a compromise is in order.  

 

 

post #25 of 47

I would tend to agree that compromise is probably the best approach here, as your dh's feelings are just as valid as yours, OP.  One thing, though, that I think is missing from this conversation is the fact that your dh's feelings could be taken as an example of successful marketing.  Disney banks on "creating" memories of their products, and on parents remembering or feeling nostalgia for their childhood experiences and seeking to recreate those memories for their children.  Right or wrong, I think that's how it goes.  There are specific things from my childhood that I have chosen/am trying to do differently; I am in a unique position to do that (know better, do better kind of stuff), and it seems to me that is equally valid.

post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by annalivia View Post

I would tend to agree that compromise is probably the best approach here, as your dh's feelings are just as valid as yours, OP.  One thing, though, that I think is missing from this conversation is the fact that your dh's feelings could be taken as an example of successful marketing.  Disney banks on "creating" memories of their products, and on parents remembering or feeling nostalgia for their childhood experiences and seeking to recreate those memories for their children.  Right or wrong, I think that's how it goes.  There are specific things from my childhood that I have chosen/am trying to do differently; I am in a unique position to do that (know better, do better kind of stuff), and it seems to me that is equally valid.


I get what you're saying, but that means anything a child remembers fondly, unless it was purely natural (eg. the hikes in the woods with my mom, sister and dog) is an example of successful marketing. Does that mean we have to avoid all those things with our children, because they were marketed? I have good memories of "Pirate Paks" (the kids meal at a local restaurant, which comes in a cardboard pirate ship). That was good marketing, but they were still cool. My kids like them, too (we eat there maybe twice a year) and I can't really say the marketing is hurting anyone, yk?

 

re: Disney. I don't really care about them that much, one way or the other. The Disney Princess marketing turns my stomach, but dh likes them, and so does dd1. So, I live with it. I've talked to dd1 about why I'm not that crazy about them, and I absolutely refuse to buy poorly made, over-priced crap, just because it has Belle or Cinderella on it. (DD1 does have a few of their products, from my in-laws, and I just kind of shrug - they love Disney, and they only see their grandkids for one week a year...if sending dd1 an obnoxious talking mirror with princesses on it helps them all feel connected, it's a small price to pay.) DD1 has had a few DIsney clothes (actually, I have a couple of Disney World t-shirts), but not many. These are things I just tend to let go.

 

The movies? I think we own almost every Disney movie ever made. This is, again, something dh really wanted. I'd have probably chosen a few I remembered from my childhood (Bambi, Dumbo, Cinderella, Snow White, 101 Dalmatians and maybe Peter Pan, although I hate it after seeing it as an adult, and it's one of the few we don't have) and left it at that. But, I really don't find it a big deal to have them. Disney tv doesn't even enter the picture. The two middle kids have watched some Disney Channel at a friend's, where dd1 got hooked on Hannah Montana. I could have done without that! But...for all this Disney saturation, we don't have issues with the ads. We skip right over them on most of the movies (and the ads are mostly for other movies that we already own, anyway!) We don't watch commercial television and my kids have never seen ads for most Disney products. Except for this cheap, crappy-looking Princess table, the kids have never asked me for any Disney merchandise, and we simply explained that the table was expensive, not well made and would break very quickly. That was that.

 

There's a lot of Disney out there, and being exposed to Disney can mean many different things. We're on the high end of exposure for MDC, I think...but that still doesn't mean a child has to be sucked into the endless merchandising and marketing machine.

 

post #27 of 47

Sure, but that's the point, it's not entirely neutral, so maybe that provides a platform for considering what or how a parent might want to include things that they remember fondly from their childhood.  Or why.  I have fond memories of something called a "Steak-Umm" (sp?) that we used to sometimes have for a snack or lunch.  I think they still exist, but I wouldn't in a million years put one in my mouth again (I expect they've changed some in the thirty or so years since I last had one, also an important consideration, per this conversation), and I wouldn't offer one to ds.  I believe that considering long term marketing strategies like those used (I think) by Disney are worth thinking about, whatever the conclusion.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post




I get what you're saying, but that means anything a child remembers fondly, unless it was purely natural (eg. the hikes in the woods with my mom, sister and dog) is an example of successful marketing. Does that mean we have to avoid all those things with our children, because they were marketed? I have good memories of "Pirate Paks" (the kids meal at a local restaurant, which comes in a cardboard pirate ship). That was good marketing, but they were still cool. My kids like them, too (we eat there maybe twice a year) and I can't really say the marketing is hurting anyone, yk?

 

 

post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by annalivia View Post

Sure, but that's the point, it's not entirely neutral, so maybe that provides a platform for considering what or how a parent might want to include things that they remember fondly from their childhood.  Or why.  I have fond memories of something called a "Steak-Umm" (sp?) that we used to sometimes have for a snack or lunch.  I think they still exist, but I wouldn't in a million years put one in my mouth again (I expect they've changed some in the thirty or so years since I last had one, also an important consideration, per this conversation), and I wouldn't offer one to ds.  I believe that considering long term marketing strategies like those used (I think) by Disney are worth thinking about, whatever the conclusion.
 

I think I'm just looking at this differently than you are. Sure - there was marketing. Without it, I wouldn't have known about the movies I liked at all. But, once I'd seen them and liked them, Cinderella, Bambi and Snow White were/are no different than Chitty Chitty Bang Bang or The Sound of Music...other movies that I loved and wanted to (and did) share with my kids. I guess I just don't see what considering the marketing has to do with this particular issue. I took my kids for an occasional Pirate Pak, because I thought they were a lot of fun as a kid, and an occasional "kids meal" isn't in conflict with how we're raising our kids. If it were in conflict, then I wouldn't have let them have Pirate Paks. Since I don't actually have a problem with the content of the Disney movies I mentioned (except for Peter Pan), the marketing aspect is irrelevant to me. I saw them, and I really liked them, and I have no problem with my kids seeing them. How they may have been marketed to me in the early 70s doesn't come into play.

 

And, honestly, one of dh's most treasued "things" with our kids is taking them to see a movie every Christmas season (late November/early December). He always takes them to the latest Disney release, so they've seen Enchanted (just dd1, as ds2 was too young that year), Bolt, Princess and the Frog and Tangled. Are they marketed? Of course they are. But, the reason they're special to my kids isn't the marketing - it's the special outing with their dad.

post #29 of 47
I think that one important thing has not been mentioned here and that is the insidious things Disney movies teach children about gender, relationships and history. Children internalize messages like a happy ending MUST include the girlie character having the big pretty wedding. There are lots of problamatic messages within the Disney cannon but the ones about gender are the ones that kill me.

It's my hill to die on.

Yeah, I watched the movies as a child also because my mother LOVES Disney. And I learned lots of damaging stuff about body image, giving men what they want, being "pretty" having tremendous value and as I mentioned before how marriage is the most important thing ever. That is a big bag full of yuck, and it doesn't even include all the marketing crap.

So OP if I were in your situation I would not let this one go by just because your husband is being nostalgic. For something like Disney (or media more generally) its not about compromise...it can't be, because a child does not have the capability to process and deconstruct the messages they receive. Not even if a parent is there to talk them through it. Not until they are much older.

Maybe a good place to start is by getting rid of the TV. If you don't have it around you watch much less media.
post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post

I think that one important thing has not been mentioned here and that is the insidious things Disney movies teach children about gender, relationships and history. Children internalize messages like a happy ending MUST include the girlie character having the big pretty wedding. There are lots of problamatic messages within the Disney cannon but the ones about gender are the ones that kill me.

It's my hill to die on.

Yeah, I watched the movies as a child also because my mother LOVES Disney. And I learned lots of damaging stuff about body image, giving men what they want, being "pretty" having tremendous value and as I mentioned before how marriage is the most important thing ever. That is a big bag full of yuck, and it doesn't even include all the marketing crap.

So OP if I were in your situation I would not let this one go by just because your husband is being nostalgic. For something like Disney (or media more generally) its not about compromise...it can't be, because a child does not have the capability to process and deconstruct the messages they receive. Not even if a parent is there to talk them through it. Not until they are much older.

Maybe a good place to start is by getting rid of the TV. If you don't have it around you watch much less media.
 


I think a child doesn't have those capabilities and I think if they DID, they wouldn't care. Most kids (having nannied a fair few before giving birth my own) are not deconstructing the bigger messages about gender etc. that are in some of their favorite movies...I think DD loves Ratatouille so much because because she likes rats! 

 

I feel like we as parents are really projecting a lot of our adult issues we may or may not have with companies like Disney, onto our kids who really just want to watch a fun looking movie...

Now the issue of the marketing that goes along with all the movies is a problem, but only if YOU the parent lets it be one. DD may love Ratatouille but she isn't getting a blanket, watch, lunch box, stuffed animal, tee shirt etc. of the movie. I control that aspect and don't have a problem drawing the line between my kid enjoying a movie and not allowing the merchandising part of it to enter her life.

 

ETA, I completely respect if it is your hill to die on, I just find it hard to relate I guess because it is definitely not a hill to die on for me. I pick my battles about the whole subject and I don't really mind if DD watches a Disney movie.

post #31 of 47

Get rid of the tv? Don't compromise with DH about Disney? PP, gently and honestly, were all of the negative images/ideas you processed only a result of Disney movies/exposure?

 

I love Disney World/Land and have since I was a child. I would go every single year if my husband had no say so in the matter. However, I'm not a fan of Disney movies and haven't been since I was a child. I don't like the images of beauty they represent but I also don't think Disney is all bad.I think, it's our jobs as parents, whether we let our kids watch a ton of Disney movies or none at all are responsible for setting the tone re: images of beauty,how we're to be treated, etc. It really burns me when (not directly at anyone in particular but it's been said before on MDC) people almost blame Disney for all that's wrong in this world. 

 

Why does enjoying Disney have to be a result of successful marketing? Is it really not possible for me to go on a Disney vacation and have fun because I'm with my man and my baby? I don't think we give children enough credit when it comes to this kind of thing. I watched a heck of a lot more tv than my DD does and the only one thing I ever wanted was an Easy Bake Oven because I thought it meant being able to make cookies without waiting on my mother to do it. I thought books and movies like Cinderalla and Snow White were beyond silly but still enjoyed Disney. 

 

I also agree a little bit with Laila2. I don't see where exposure to a Disney movie or Elmo is going to harm a child. If we raise children who are damaged because of a tickle me elmo doll or tshirt then I think that has more to do with what's going on in the home than with the Sesame Street organization.

post #32 of 47

I am not a fan of Disney at all, but I must point out that, although OP's DH was exposed to it as a child, it must not have done much damage or she surely would not have married and even had a child with him.

post #33 of 47

 

Quote:
PP, gently and honestly, were all of the negative images/ideas you processed only a result of Disney movies/exposure? 

 

No-but they are one of the largest bad guys in the over saturation of our children.

 

 

Quote:
I control that aspect and don't have a problem drawing the line between my kid enjoying a movie and not allowing the merchandising part of it to enter her life. 

 

Yes you can say no-over and over again. But, just because I say no doesn't change the fact that they base their bottom line on turning my kid into a consumer. And I won't give them any of my money to do that.

 

I am not going to expose him to it at home regardless of how great some of the content may be-there are plenty of other great things we can do that don't involve Disney (or Nick or Dora or Sponge Bob). I am fine with parents making different choices than me-it is all good. But, I also don't think those choices-when it comes to this kind of mass consumerism- are quite as free and clear as you (general you) are making them out to be.

 

 

 

post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbailey View Post

Get rid of the tv? Don't compromise with DH about Disney? PP, gently and honestly, were all of the negative images/ideas you processed only a result of Disney movies/exposure?

 

I love Disney World/Land and have since I was a child. I would go every single year if my husband had no say so in the matter. However, I'm not a fan of Disney movies and haven't been since I was a child. I don't like the images of beauty they represent but I also don't think Disney is all bad.I think, it's our jobs as parents, whether we let our kids watch a ton of Disney movies or none at all are responsible for setting the tone re: images of beauty,how we're to be treated, etc. It really burns me when (not directly at anyone in particular but it's been said before on MDC) people almost blame Disney for all that's wrong in this world. 

 

Why does enjoying Disney have to be a result of successful marketing? Is it really not possible for me to go on a Disney vacation and have fun because I'm with my man and my baby? I don't think we give children enough credit when it comes to this kind of thing. I watched a heck of a lot more tv than my DD does and the only one thing I ever wanted was an Easy Bake Oven because I thought it meant being able to make cookies without waiting on my mother to do it. I thought books and movies like Cinderalla and Snow White were beyond silly but still enjoyed Disney. 

 

I also agree a little bit with Laila2. I don't see where exposure to a Disney movie or Elmo is going to harm a child. If we raise children who are damaged because of a tickle me elmo doll or tshirt then I think that has more to do with what's going on in the home than with the Sesame Street organization.


Well I don't blame Disney for all that is wrong with the world but I do see them as a reflection (or symptom if you will) of certain issues like their depiction of gender norms. I hold Disney to a higher standard because of the fact that they create content for children and children are extremely impressionable. It does not matter if all the negative ideas I picked up were a result only of Disney, what matters is that these things are in Disney movies. Strongly. And I do not want my young child exposed to the stuff when he does not have the analytical capacity to sort it out.

I look at it this way: Kids (especially small kids) are socialization sponges. What they are exposed to on a day to day basis becomes their norm by which all other things are measured. That is why kids cling so strongly to "roles" and "this is for boys, that is for girls" stuff. The more stuff they are exposed to that reinforce these things the harder it will be for them to break through that paradigm in the future (when they are old enough to parse the deeper meanings themselves). Like it or not Disney is teaching your children how they are supposed to act and what they are supposed to believe. I don't find them a very good teacher, personally. And again, the crap they market reinforces these messages, but the originals come from the content of their stories (movies for sure, and I assume television. I dunno since I don't watch the Disney channel).

So for me watching the occasional Disney would be right up there with a vegetarian child being fed the occasional burger. If you are a Vegiatrian family your children don't eat meat and if you have a problem with media they don't consume media.
post #35 of 47

Thanks Oak Tree Mama; I was beginning to think I had just been tossed in the irrelevant bin because I had confessed my age.  :-)

 

And for those who say "hey, just regulate what your kids see" well of course I do that! Who would suggest otherwise. But we are living this right now in our house. All along we've been told "you can't shelter your kids; you can't stop them from seeing stuff" (this was brought up whenever we'd try and impose limited exposure to mass-marketed crap). And they are right. So, in a desire to be infinitely reasonable, you let a little bit in. (the expression "camel's nose under the tent" springs to mind) With us, it started not with Disney but with Spongebob. And we only allowed Spongebob one day a week. We dubbed it "Cartoon Monday" and since to my son, watching cartoons only meant Spongebob (because he didn't know cartoons; never watch them on TV in our house), he'd look up Spongebob on the On-Demand menu provided by our cable company. But of course, even with Spongebob there are the commercials, and the other Nickelodeon shows promoted before and after the show. So then he's like "Hey, can I see what that Hero Factory is? Hey, can I see what Power Rangers are?" So there I am forced to either be a jerk and say "No! put your blinders on, kid", I am reasonable and say sure, you can see that, we'll decide if it's any good. And so he watches it, and he likes it. Power Rangers Samurai in small doses is not objectionable (I say small doses because they do tend to solve all their problems through violence even though they promote good values like friendship, self-discipline and loyalty), but then he loves the Power Rangers and wants to see them when they come on "live, on TV" (as opposed to OnDemand) because they are so heavily promoted. Ok, so we say, go ahead and watch it on TV when it comes on, at which point he's exposed to even more commercials for shows he now wants to see. And what's worse, the TOYS that they all suddenly want from watching the show. Of course, we make him save up his allowance for those, so that is not such a huge problem.

 

But at some point you've become this giant gatekeeper, saying No, No, No, No, all day long, and frankly it gets a little negative. Of course it's my job to say No, so don't anyone get high & mighty and lecture me that it's my job. I know that. But it's as if every single day a traveling salesman showed up at your door with boxes of products that were harmful to your kids. He knocked, you said No. He pushed the door, so you had to push harder. He came every day. He knocked when you were sleeping, he knocked during dinner. He parked his car outside your house like a stalker and tried to wave the products at your kids when they waited for the bus. At some point you'd cry "harrassment," wouldn't you? Well that is where I stand now. Sure I can say no, but I'm sick of having it forced at us at every turn. Commercialism is a creepy cancer in our kid's lives.

 

Before we let all this into our house it wasn't a problem. We watched educational shows all day and had a blast. We learned so much! But now my kid has a full-fledged craving. He's learned that nice little lethargic slump that kids do across the couch when suddenly their lives aren't interesting any more and all they want is their program du jour. So we've had to limit the Disney/Nickelodeon/Nick Jr type fare more overtly (as in a policy), and we've had many long conversations about WHY, and about advertising, when it's good, when it's not, and about the actual merit of all the commercials that he sees, and that all commercials are NOT bad, but Madison Avenue's got an army of child psychologists whose sole job it is to put a wedge between me & my kid, and me & my money.  My kid gets far more parental involvement and teaching on the subject than a mere "No!" and a banning of things.

 

So I hope it's understandable why I feel resentful against these multi billion dollar corporations whose job is not to provide for my child's well-being, but to make it extra hard for ME to do the same. They rely on us throwing up our hands and saying "what's the harm"? There's a LOT of harm, and it's all documented quite nicely in that web site I quote somewhere above (Campaign for a Commercial Free Childhood).  It's time for a little more common sense, and a little less denial.

 

In summary, of COURSE I regulate what my kid sees. We've narrowed it down to 1 hour of Nickelodeon/Disney type shows (i.e. highly commercial, heavily marketed kid fare) on Mon, Wed, Fri, and Sunday. For the rest of the days he's welcome to watch tapes and shows, but they can't be that garbage that's targeted TO kids. Doesn't it strike you as odd that I am sitting here trying to protect my kid from shows that are MADE FOR & MARKETED TO KIDS?  

 

Age has nothing to do with it. I spent so much time in front of the TV growing up, it isn't funny. I am expert on 70's TV trivia. I lived on I Dream of Jeannie and Gilligan's Island, the network movies of the week, Charlie's Angels, Dallas and Falcon Crest and Dynasty, Munsters and Bewitched, Hill Street and St. Elsewhere....the list would wrap around the earth a few times if I listed them. But I believe there's more at stake nowadays than just idle time in front of the tube. Much, much, more. And one glance at how kids are doing these days, well-being-wise, will tell anyone that maybe parents need to sit up and take notice.

post #36 of 47

We do watch Disney (movies, not TV - we don't have one), but DD (who's just turned three) hasn't started nagging for Tinkerbell backpacks or Belle pencil cases. I think it's partly because she doesn't see the ads; and perhaps partly because she doesn't go to preschool or daycare and get the peer pressure thing; but also just because our general "vibe" is that we don't buy stuff.

 

Not that we don't buy Disney stuff; we just don't buy much stuff, period. We don't shop for fun (well, I enjoy grocery shopping, but we don't hang out at malls, you know?); on the rare occasions we end up in a non-food-selling shop, we're usually there for something specific like craft supplies or whatever. So she doesn't associate seeing an item with the possibility of getting an item; to her, a treat is a milkshake or chippies when we're out, but not stickers or a toy. So if she sees a Cinderella shirt, she'll say "Look Mummy, the dancing girl on a shirt!" in great delight, I'll say "Wow, it's Cinderella, that's cool!", and we'll move along on our merry way. No muss, no fuss. I don't care if she recognises the characters and is pleased to see them - heck, it makes my day a little brighter to see Luke Skywalker hanging out on somebody's T-shirt. Why not? :) I won't buy them, because I think they're tacky, (generally) badly-made and made in appalling labour conditions. Plus, I prefer to sew DD's clothes myself. And so on. But by living a relatively unmaterialistic lifestyle, we've avoided - so far, at least - the Disney gimmes, without having to make a specific issue of it.

 

I do think parents should be allowed to limit/ban characters that drive them nuts, though; even if the reason isn't related to deep feminist issues or something equally weighty. If Dora's voice drives you insane, you shouldn't have to listen to it for three hours a day. I can't stand Barbie, so DD doesn't have one (luckily, for aforementioned reasons, she doesn't care - she did see a Barbie poster the other day and say "Look, a blonde lady!", but that's all she knows!); similarly bands like Hi 5 and the Wiggles, although I might well find them philosophically innocuous if I researched them, drive me nuts, so DD doesn't listen to them. It would be different if DH really felt strongly that she was missing out, though.

 

 

post #37 of 47

Wow. Look at this article that just came across my FB newsfeed, by sheer coincidence:

http://www.alternet.org/books/150410/how_disney_invaded_american_childhood_to_shill_worthless_crap_to_our_kids/

 

 

post #38 of 47

oaktreemama, you make some very good points in your most recent post, and all your reasons for limiting that stuff are valid. I have a thing against Nickelodeon in general and Spongebob in particular, so I can relate to a lot of what you say even though we are more lax about Disney stuff here. That said, having a DVR helps tremendously with many of the things you point out -- my kids don't see the commercials or the promos for other shows on that channel, they only see the actual show we recorded.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oaktreemama View Post

I am fine with parents making different choices than me-it is all good.


I'm truly curious -- what if the other parent who wants to make a different choice is your kids' other parent? That's the situation the OP finds herself in, and I'm having trouble picturing how a "hill to die on" conversation about this might go when the person you (general you) are debating is your partner (who, presumably, has equal concern for and say in how your children are reared). 

post #39 of 47

I think the OP does need to compromise with her DH or have a broader perspective on the issues she wants to avoid.

 

It is also true that marketing to children is insidious.  Cars is funny and brilliantly marketed.  My kids love it and the more they do the more I hate it.  My son has 3 snot rods and is that enough - no, he tells me he needs 4.  2 years ago I had kept it out of the house.  I let my MIL give him a little car and now we have a million of them and they all have to be wearing the right paint job for the right scence.  It's obscene.  Do I personally buy this stuff for the kids - I've bought them a couple cars (special airplane ride toy, that type of thing), but it's mostly gifts from relatives.  Do I play mean mommy and ban others from buying us commercial toys or just get rid of it after we receive it?  So far, no, I don't.  Do we now have obscene amounts of cute little Cars cars that will no doubt be added to when the new Cars movie comes out this coming summer? Yes.

 

Our culture is drowning in consumerism.  It's hard to stay afloat.  When you have family you know and love that just doesn't see they are drowning and wasting money and throwing more and more stuff into OUR lives that we have to either ban or force out or deal with... UGH. 

 

Ok, that was a rant.  I totally get where the OP is coming from and I have taken the compromise route and it worked for a while.  With the way my extended family is, we let in a little and it floods in.  So now it's a couple years down the road and I don't know what to advise or say. 

 

I had over 10 CPK when I was a kid - so I guess I lived it then and now I'm suffering it now.  I liked it when I was little but I really didn't understand. 

 

Tjej

post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post

I think that one important thing has not been mentioned here and that is the insidious things Disney movies teach children about gender, relationships and history. Children internalize messages like a happy ending MUST include the girlie character having the big pretty wedding. There are lots of problamatic messages within the Disney cannon but the ones about gender are the ones that kill me.

It's my hill to die on.


 

 

This is why I avoided a lot of the older Disney movies for a long time.  I didn't like the messages I internalized about women from a young age and I didn't want that for my dd.  Those messages come from everywhere in our society, but I think that when we spend large chunks of time watching those messages (over and over again for many kids) we give them more importance.  I didn't regulate the products that made their way into the house because very few did, but I didn't get the movies or the books until my dd showed me that she was ready for them and had become used to watching movies with strong female characters who don't get married at the end of the show.  I didn't tell my dd that we wouldn't do Disney movies, I just really discouraged the ones with marriage themes and found alternatives until I felt that she could handle them without buying into the crappy theme.  When she watched them she was horrified that the princess got married and she hasn't wanted to watch those ones since.  Some of the newer movies actually include some better themes that are more appropriate for a child though so they are getting better very slowly. 

 

I think talking to your husband about what you want for your daughter as an adult and how these movies affected your view of who you should be would be a good place to start.  Agreeing on an age to introduce them or allowing the ones that don't have themes that go against your morals may be a good place to compromise if your problem is with the way women are portrayed rather than just a blanket disagreement with marketing.  If you are concerned with marketing in general then I am not sure where you would start.  In our society everything is marketed somehow, some companies are just more successful at it than others.  Getting rid of your tv is also a great idea and I second it.  I love not having a tv, there is so much that you can get free or cheap online that a tv and the cost of hooking it up just isn't a good investment anyways.
 

 


Edited by One_Girl - 3/29/11 at 8:05pm
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